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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #426  
Old 01-20-2013, 05:22 AM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I'm comparing my 2009 E90 M-Sport XDrive with my 2013 F30 Luxury RWD.

My recollection was that my XDrive had the standard suspension, correct me please if I'm wrong there.

The F30 is just as planted as my E90 was. In fact, might be stickier in very tight curves at irresponsible speeds; comparing the two I feel more confident in the F30. All 4 wheels are locked-in, the DTC or DSC warning lights don't come on. And, very importantly, the road imperfections and pothole explosions of the E90 are a thing of the past.

The trade off is that the F30 has body lean in those turns that did not exist in the E90. Again, the F30 is planted in hard corners, the wheels do not slip a bit, but the body roll is evident. I assume that to soften the pothole situation the car leans.

Let me know if that makes sense.

BJ
The F30's newer suspension design is probably better at keeping each tire connected to the road. Possibly the improved runflats or lighter wheels helps (if they're even lighter).
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  #427  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:26 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
Try driving a Sonata or an Optima and then report back on that.
I had driven an Optima sedan and a Genesis coupe, they are quite "planted" to me at speed limit.

BTW, when is the 2 series 4-door "coupe" going to be available? That will be the match for the CLA and A3.
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  #428  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:56 AM
shabadoo25 shabadoo25 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I had driven an Optima sedan and a Genesis coupe, they are quite "planted" to me at speed limit.

BTW, when is the 2 series 4-door "coupe" going to be available? That will be the match for the CLA and A3.
The Genesis coupe is another story.

Try taking a sharp highway curve at speed in one of the Korean cars. See if you can do it without tapping your brakes. The body roll is excessive.
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  #429  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:11 AM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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It's all about volume. Selling 320s will enable BMW to defray the R&D costs of the platform across more units. While the engine is different, many of the other components and the assembly lines are the same.
VW Group has a cost advantage, because they own VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat and Skoda. Technology that starts out in the high-end cars eventually ends up in the most basic cars which provides VW Group an inherent cost advantage.
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  #430  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:45 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
The Genesis coupe is another story.

Try taking a sharp highway curve at speed in one of the Korean cars. See if you can do it without tapping your brakes. The body roll is excessive.
Who is talking about making fast, sharp turns? What did you not understand when I said driving under speed limit at all times, a requirement for BJ and his 98% BMW drivers?
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  #431  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:49 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
It's all about volume. Selling 320s will enable BMW to defray the R&D costs of the platform across more units. While the engine is different, many of the other components and the assembly lines are the same.
VW Group has a cost advantage, because they own VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat and Skoda. Technology that starts out in the high-end cars eventually ends up in the most basic cars which provides VW Group an inherent cost advantage.
Keep selling 328 will defray R&D cost too, but make $4k more profit each for BMW. Unless we see BMW selling twice the volume of F30 by introducing 320.

Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-21-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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  #432  
Old 01-21-2013, 11:04 AM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Keep selling 328 will defray R&D cost too, but make $4k more profit each for BMW. Unless we see BMW selling twice the volume of F30 by introducing 320.

Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.
are they going to bring the 2 series 4 door coupe to US? or at least the M135 hatchback? Does anyone know when?
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  #433  
Old 01-21-2013, 01:47 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Keep selling 328 will defray R&D cost too, but make $4k more profit each for BMW. Unless we see BMW selling twice the volume of F30 by introducing 320.
Agreed. They are not mutually exclusive. The 320 does not replace the 328 or 335, only expands the range.
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  #434  
Old 01-21-2013, 02:40 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Keep selling 328 will defray R&D cost too, but make $4k more profit each for BMW. Unless we see BMW selling twice the volume of F30 by introducing 320.
Business school, much?

Each 328i will not make "$4,000 more profit for BMW". You are looking at this all wrong.

1. If you are referring to the variance in MSRP, that's $4,000 in sales, not $4,000 in profit. Profit margins on automobiles tend to be in the 6-8% range, so the bottom line 'hit' to BMW for selling a car that's $4,000 less expensive is only $280.

2. If BMW sells 30% more 3 Series as a result of the lower priced model, they get better prices on raw materials and components from their suppliers for all cars, will help the margins on every car BMW makes, certainly offsets the 320i's impact significantly.

3. What BMW is doing is "trading sales for market share and acquiring new brand-loyal buyers in the process". I'm sure they've run a lifetime value analysis of the typical current 3 buyer and applied it to the new mix with the cheaper car and determined that by losing $280 in profit to acquire a new customer in Year 1 it will generate $1000's of dollars of incremental profit over the course of 10+ years of repeat brand purchases.

4. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that BMW is getting ridiculous profit margins on options and packages. For years we hear people complain "I can get a $150 Nuvi that does a better job than BMW's nav for $2,000". BMW is likely making $800 on every Technology package, Sport package, Premium package, Cold Weather package, etc. So by losing $280 on the MSRP profit BMW has its customers have free cash to buy extremely profitable packages and options.

5. Translation: BMW will make more money on a 320i than a 328i considering a) the buyers will be apt to add more profitable add-ons and b) their suppliers will lower their costs on materials as c) the lifetime value of the new customers they acquire increases while d) their stock price will soar due to the e) increase in marketshare taken away from key competitors.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 01-21-2013 at 02:42 PM.
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  #435  
Old 01-21-2013, 03:07 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Business school, much?

Each 328i will not make "$4,000 more profit for BMW". You are looking at this all wrong.

1. If you are referring to the variance in MSRP, that's $4,000 in sales, not $4,000 in profit. Profit margins on automobiles tend to be in the 6-8% range, so the bottom line 'hit' to BMW for selling a car that's $4,000 less expensive is only $280.

BJ
I don't know which school you went to. Based on what we can tell, thé cost of manufacturing a 320i and a base 328i are not so different. BMW is known to make 10%+ profit margin, which the 320i will give up the bulk of it. Selling 30% more F30 in the form of 320i will not help.

People who go to a dealer looking for a 320i are more value oriented, and less likely to pay for all the add ons compared to the 328i buyers.

Your other theory was already out of the window, the 320i is not a direct answer to the CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door is.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-21-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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  #436  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:13 PM
jlsbimmer jlsbimmer is offline
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I was on the bmw.ca website .. did I see it right that you can NOT get the 320i with any kind of sport package ??

btw - the base 328i is around $9000 more than the 320i based on that site.
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  #437  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:21 PM
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are they going to bring the 2 series 4 door coupe to US? or at least the M135 hatchback? Does anyone know when?
The hatchback never. The sedan is probably way out, like 2014 or 2015. Might even see a FWD 1 series sedan first.
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  #438  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:37 PM
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The 320i will no doubt cannibalize some sales from the 328i. But the loss will more than be made up by expansion of demand at the bottom end.

No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.
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  #439  
Old 01-21-2013, 04:53 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Keep selling 328 will defray R&D cost too, but make $4k more profit each for BMW. Unless we see BMW selling twice the volume of F30 by introducing 320.

Also I pointed out, 320 is not meant to compete with CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door coupe is.
Except the 320i is. As much as a 2 series is cheaper it only had 2 doors. The majority of people buy four door cars because its more practical. And this is BMW giving them at least a stop gap alternative. The 320i will still probably cost more than an a3 sedan. But it will also be bigger . The 2 series many buyers will immediately not consider since it won't have 4 doors.
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  #440  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:23 PM
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The hatchback never. The sedan is probably way out, like 2014 or 2015. Might even see a FWD 1 series sedan first.
Never. that sounds so finite. It's an ugly little car but i would get in a heart beat. 2015 works for me, that's when F30 lease is over. Thanks for responding. Hope you're right about the sedan and wrong about the hatchback
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  #441  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:24 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Except the 320i is. As much as a 2 series is cheaper it only had 2 doors. The majority of people buy four door cars because its more practical. And this is BMW giving them at least a stop gap alternative. The 320i will still probably cost more than an a3 sedan. But it will also be bigger . The 2 series many buyers will immediately not consider since it won't have 4 doors.
The 2 series 4-door should come this way, 5-door hatch probably not, although I don't understand why not. BMW did bring X1 here finally, and it is selling like hot cake, so maybe they will figure this out too.
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  #442  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:26 PM
Vector Pilot Vector Pilot is offline
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Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
Except the 320i is. As much as a 2 series is cheaper it only had 2 doors. The majority of people buy four door cars because its more practical. And this is BMW giving them at least a stop gap alternative. The 320i will still probably cost more than an a3 sedan. But it will also be bigger . The 2 series many buyers will immediately not consider since it won't have 4 doors.
I agree with your comment that the 320i is more practical. We're looking at it as daily driver... that can be spec out with the Sports Pack plus limited options for a reasonable price. Data suggests it will have peppy engine, eight speed trans and it will be less expensive then the top tier of the F30 lineup. What's not to like?

Last edited by Vector Pilot; 01-22-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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  #443  
Old 01-21-2013, 05:33 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
The 320i will no doubt cannibalize some sales from the 328i. But the loss will more than be made up by expansion of demand at the bottom end.

No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.
Give it another 2 1/2 years, you'll see him trolling around Walmart parking lot in a 2016 L320i Luxury sedan /w Status Pack.
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  #444  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:03 PM
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Give it another 2 1/2 years, you'll see him trolling around Walmart parking lot in a 2016 L320i Luxury sedan /w Status Pack.
Unless BMW changes something there is no L320i.
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  #445  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:21 PM
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Unless BMW changes something there is no L320i.
There will be if BMW sells a stick on L.
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  #446  
Old 01-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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There will be if BMW sells a stick on L.
Thats why I said "Unless BMW changes something..."
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  #447  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:21 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Unless BMW changes something there is no L320i.
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
There will be if BMW sells a stick on L.
I'm being sarcastic.



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  #448  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post

No doubt BJ is super excited to no longer be driving an entry-level model.


Ah, Luxury.

BJ
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  #449  
Old 01-21-2013, 08:51 PM
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Give it another 2 1/2 years, you'll see him trolling around Walmart parking lot in a 2016 L320i Luxury sedan /w Status Pack.
Correction:

L420i Coupe. Or, perhaps, a L Gran Coupe. The kids are older now, the oldest will be off to College and dad won't need no 4-door any more.

BJ
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  #450  
Old 01-21-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I don't know which school you went to. Based on what we can tell, thé cost of manufacturing a 320i and a base 328i are not so different. BMW is known to make 10%+ profit margin, which the 320i will give up the bulk of it. Selling 30% more F30 in the form of 320i will not help.

People who go to a dealer looking for a 320i are more value oriented, and less likely to pay for all the add ons compared to the 328i buyers.

Your other theory was already out of the window, the 320i is not a direct answer to the CLA or A3, the upcoming 2 series 4-door is.
If that's the case then BMW must be out of business already. They sell far more 316, 318 and 320 in europe than 328 or 335. yes, cost is not proportionaly different between different engines but each 3 series regardles of engine will make health profit to BMW, else no point in making something with little margin.
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