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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #501  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Yes, but obviously get very different things for your money. Btwy, the new 4-banger Accord supposedly does 0-60mph in the low to mid six seconds.
Oh yeah, and getting much better fuel economy in the process (an Accord will cost 400$/yr less in fuel than a 320/328i)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33170

but yes - it is still an Accord. But the point is that the turbo is unnecessary for a 180HP engine in this class.
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  #502  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:29 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by BMW220i View Post
My feeling is that if you have RWD, you should have 50/50 balance.
A number exotics or super-sports have a lot more weight on the back. One can argue 50/50 is for sissies. Under hard braking, 50/50 is far from ideal. Also, you get better traction in a RWD with more weight on the back.
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  #503  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:43 PM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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It wouldn't surprise me if, sooner or later, the 3 series outsells both the Camry and Accord in North America. It already does in most of Europe where the 320i and even cheaper 3s have been on sale for years. The corporate strategy seems to be to move downmarket in a bid to shift more cars. Even the most expensive bimmers aren't that expensive any more, especially compared to the top of the line Audi's and MBs.
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  #504  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:44 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Yes, but obviously get very different things for your money. Btwy, the new 4-banger Accord supposedly does 0-60mph in the low to mid six seconds.

i am thinking the new 320i given it has a published 7.1 will be in the 6s as well. not to mention the mid 6s time for the accord is probably with the manual.

given most of the people looking at accords and 320is will probably get the 8AT or CVT, i'd assume the cvt is not as fast as the zf 8 speed to 60. will be pretty close though.
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  #505  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:46 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if, sooner or later, the 3 series outsells both the Camry and Accord in North America. It already does in most of Europe where the 320i and even cheaper 3s have been on sale for years. The corporate strategy seems to be to move downmarket in a bid to shift more cars. Even the most expensive bimmers aren't that expensive any more, especially compared to the top of the line Audi's and MBs.

definitely. the 320i base is 7 grand more than a EX i-4 accord CVT. this is probably the most common model accord. for 7 grand, you lose things like power seats, and the accords standard sunroof, but you get some other features and a slightly more powerful car, a year longer warranty and free maintenance.

if bmw can convince even some accord/altima/camry buyers to just get the 320i it will help their economies of scale. i think a lot of people would look at the 7k difference considering BMW resale value and the maintenance costs of brake pads etc , and there will be just enough people doing it to make it worth while for bmw.
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  #506  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:39 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Yes, but obviously get very different things for your money. Btwy, the new 4-banger Accord supposedly does 0-60mph in the low to mid six seconds.
Don't think so.

The manual is 6.8, the CVT is in the 7's. The base Altima does 7.6. But man it sounds like a Hoover doing it.
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  #507  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:44 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if, sooner or later, the 3 series outsells both the Camry and Accord in North America.
Considering that 3-series sales in the US are around 100K/year, and Accord/Camry together are 500K or more, that's a pretty bold prediction.
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  #508  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:55 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Oh yeah, and getting much better fuel economy in the process (an Accord will cost 400$/yr less in fuel than a 320/328i)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32904&id=33170

but yes - it is still an Accord. But the point is that the turbo is unnecessary for a 180HP engine in this class.
The Honda's get close to what is advertised, but the BMWs usually get more. At least that has been my personal experience. EPA says I should get 21 combined, but I have almost never gotten less than 24 and sometimes as high as 26 or 27. In my prior car, a Civic EX, EPA says I should get 28, and I used to pretty much get around 29 or 30.

Also the last time I considered an Accord good looking was 1995. Starting with the update in 1996 they messed up the rear, and thereafter they have been boats.
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Last edited by mr_clueless; 01-22-2013 at 08:20 PM.
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  #509  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:31 AM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Considering that 3-series sales in the US are around 100K/year, and Accord/Camry together are 500K or more, that's a pretty bold prediction.
They've done it in other markets, so it'll be interesting to see what happens here. The US does have an infatuation with Japanese cars which the euros don't (Camry/Accord aren't even on the radar over there) so maybe it'll be harder here, we'll see.
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  #510  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
They've done it in other markets, so it'll be interesting to see what happens here. The US does have an infatuation with Japanese cars which the euros don't (Camry/Accord aren't even on the radar over there) so maybe it'll be harder here, we'll see.
It will never happen here.

There is too big a segment of the midsize market here that keeps a Camry for 12 years and when it starts to fall apart they go and get another Camry--and if they could, it would have cloth seats and roll up windows.

This segment is never going to even shop BMW. They think that all of them are $70k or more and for the rich or wastrels.
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  #511  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
They've done it in other markets, so it'll be interesting to see what happens here. The US does have an infatuation with Japanese cars which the euros don't (Camry/Accord aren't even on the radar over there) so maybe it'll be harder here, we'll see.
In other markets they do not sell new Camrys and Accords for $17,000 in fire sales by the end of the year. Each year.

BMW does not even sell a new Mini for less than $20,000.
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  #512  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:10 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
A number exotics or super-sports have a lot more weight on the back. One can argue 50/50 is for sissies. Under hard braking, 50/50 is far from ideal. Also, you get better traction in a RWD with more weight on the back.
Correct that a mid engine car does not have 50/50 weight distribution. It's not just the distribution that's important but where the weight is located and in a mid engine car it's between the wheels which is ideal. Look up 'polar moment of inertia'. Then again, a mid engine car is not a family car like a 3 series. BMW, with close to 50/50 weight distribution and the engine mounted as far back as possible in the chassis is about as good as it can get for a sedan.
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  #513  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:21 AM
shortckt shortckt is offline
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320i vs Infiniti G25

They are bringing in the 320i to fight off the competition example Infiniti G25.
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  #514  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by shortckt View Post
They are bringing in the 320i to fight off the competition example Infiniti G25.
The G25 has been long gone for awhile already...
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  #515  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:48 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The G25 has been long gone for awhile already...
i wouldn't doubt they will bring a G25 equivalent of the Q50 out .

theG37 is actually not that inexpensive a car these days. one well equipped costs just as much as a 328i more or less and other than having more power, its not that compelling a car.

they could easily bring that G25 engine back .
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  #516  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
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i wouldn't doubt they will bring a G25 equivalent of the Q50 out .

theG37 is actually not that inexpensive a car these days. one well equipped costs just as much as a 328i more or less and other than having more power, its not that compelling a car.

they could easily bring that G25 engine back .
Infiniti is bringing a version of the MB turbo 4 in the Q50...
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  #517  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:55 PM
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Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
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  #518  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
Comes with gold grill?
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  #519  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
Hurray. Inflation is finally here!
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  #520  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:09 PM
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Here is a link to a Kia dealer. As I couldn't believe it. Yhttp://www.gwinnettplacekia.com/inve...A-30478848.htm

One way to spend $34900: http://m.jalopnik.com/5883447/kia-op...to-spend-34900
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  #521  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:23 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
that is pretty crazy, but i'd assume thats the 2.0 turbo one etc.

the optima honestly is a pretty nice car, a coworker just bought an EX. its huge inside since these midsize cards are a good foot longer than a 3 series and have FWD packaging. was also fairly quiet.

the base audio system supports bluetooth streaming etc, unlike uh BMW without bmw assist. standard leather seats too on the EX which is kind of impressive

but yeah mid level cars are not that cheap anymore. we are in an era where a civic EX costs $20k+

another coworker just ordered a fusion 1.6 SE. got it for invoice. he got automatic, leather luxury package, like a backup camera, start stop (he had to have this after seeing it in the 328i... haha) and a moonroof. was like $27k + tax. i actaully looked it up and you can build a $37k fusion titanium 2.0 AWD. inflation indeed.
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  #522  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:34 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
Today I heard of someone optioning out a fully loaded Kia Optima for 33k.
So?

Accord hits the same $33-34k fully loaded.

Optima is pretty class competitive. It's one of the better looking midsize sedans out there.
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  #523  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:52 PM
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Yeah, a lot of Bimmer drivers don't understand, many people will gladly pay $30k+ for a loaded Toyota Camry or Honda CRX, than paying the same for an entry level luxury. To them a luxury badge is too much a show off, that in addition to the perceived reliability and resale value issues.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-23-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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  #524  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:09 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Yeah, a lot of Bimmer drivers don't understand, many people will gladly pay $30k+ for a loaded Toyota Camry or Honda CRX, than paying the same for an entry level luxury. To them a luxury badge is too much a show off, that in addition to the perceived reliability and resale value issues.
No, I think all BMW drivers understand that.

The way it works is you drive your Accord and you drive your Camry and eventually you make a bit more money and you feel a bit more comfortable and then you see your friends getting nicer cars and you stop by the BMW dealer and you realize you can afford a 3 Series so long as you give up all the goodies you got for free on the Toyota and Honda products and in a moment of clarity you say "okay" and then you take delivery and appreciate the refinement and you enjoy the driving experience and life is good until your lease is up and you realize that you really miss the goodies but you can't go back to those off-brands and so you suck it up and pinch a little from the college fund and get a fully loaded 3 Series because BMW has gotten you in its status trap from which there is no escape.

BJ
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  #525  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
No, I think all BMW drivers understand that.

The way it works is you drive your Accord and you drive your Camry and eventually you make a bit more money and you feel a bit more comfortable and then you see your friends getting nicer cars and you stop by the BMW dealer and you realize you can afford a 3 Series so long as you give up all the goodies you got for free on the Toyota and Honda products and in a moment of clarity you say "okay" and then you take delivery and appreciate the refinement and you enjoy the driving experience and life is good until your lease is up and you realize that you really miss the goodies but you can't go back to those off-brands and so you suck it up and pinch a little from the college fund and get a fully loaded 3 Series because BMW has gotten you in its status trap from which there is no escape.

BJ
Once you go BMW it's definitely hard to go somewhere else.
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