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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #551  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
What do you think the take rate for DHP really is? Certainly <10%.

BMW has already been on record as saying they want the 320i to be a simplified, "value conscious" car to order and buy, geared towards a younger market. The more features you can potentially add and order, the further you get away from this goal.

The enthusiasts with more income can chase the 328i/335i.
I read numerous people on this forum talking about how great and essential the DHP was. I asked two different dealers about it in person, hoping to drive the same car one--with and one without--and both said "it's a waste of money unless you track your car. You can always turn it down to "comfort" if you want a smoother ride." Neither had a single car in stock with it. And these are big SoCal dealers. So perhaps they don't know what they are talking about.

But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
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  #552  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jjcruiser View Post

Because of the price. (My getting a car happens once every ten years and it requires a long and delicate negotiation. And not with the dealer.) If I lease and amortize then the monthly cost difference isn't that much. But the "sticker shock" for my wife is significant: the way I price out what I had planned to get as a 328 ends up over $40k (before accounting for ED invoice but adding in tax); the 320 would be closer to $35k.

I mentioned the 320d because I can offset the price increase by pointing out the MPG increase. But I'd be worried they will only release a 320d as an AT and that's a deal killer for me.
Ever try rationalizing a 16 speaker, 600 watt sound system with your wife??? What about the Dynamic Handling package, a sport transmission with paddle shifters, and a 300 HP twin power turbo engine???

Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
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  #553  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
Based on what I can see, you get it with the 320, but not with the 328, unless you go for M-sport with the 328.
That's bizarre. If I get the 320 it will definitely have the sport package because I dislike the basic seats and want the sport ones; but I can't see why you'd get the short throw standard.

I assume they pay people money to market research these things and they are not random, but sometimes I wonder....
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  #554  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:06 PM
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Ever try rationalizing a 16 speaker, 600 watt sound system with your wife??? What about the Dynamic Handling package, a sport transmission with paddle shifters, and a 300 HP twin power turbo engine???

Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
LOL

Well, there is a balance to be struck. I think if I keep the price "low enough" she won't care what the actual features are. The trick is massaging "low enough" by promises of driving her to Venice, pointing out the car is less expensive than a new version of hers (highlander hybrid), and that I did everything possible to get a nice car but keep the cost as low as possible.

Thanks for all the thoughts.
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  #555  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jjcruiser View Post
I read numerous people on this forum talking about how great and essential the DHP was. I asked two different dealers about it in person, hoping to drive the same car one--with and one without--and both said "it's a waste of money unless you track your car. You can always turn it down to "comfort" if you want a smoother ride." Neither had a single car in stock with it. And these are big SoCal dealers. So perhaps they don't know what they are talking about.

But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
Just to be clear, I LOVE the DHP package. I ordered it on my car, and wouldn't order a BMW without it. But, I'm coming from a $75K M3. I'm not looking for a $35K 320i and expecting to be able to get it to perform in a similar manner.

As the MSRP gets lower (i.e. 320i), these extra features like DHP become a larger percentage of the purchase price, thereby dissuading both customers and dealers from adding it on. Everyone knows and can understand the value of Navigation or even comfort access. But adjustable suspension and steering to a buyer coming from a 3-year lease on a Jetta, Camry or Acura? C'mon. A base 320i is going to handle way stiffer than any other car in its class.
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  #556  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jjcruiser View Post
I read numerous people on this forum talking about how great and essential the DHP was. I asked two different dealers about it in person, hoping to drive the same car one--with and one without--and both said "it's a waste of money unless you track your car. You can always turn it down to "comfort" if you want a smoother ride." Neither had a single car in stock with it. And these are big SoCal dealers. So perhaps they don't know what they are talking about.

But I also suspect that if they are even slightly right then that would account for why you can't get it in a 320 and why the proportion of people discussing it favorably would be much higher on a forum about BMWs than the average person walking into a dealership.
My CA basically said the same thing. He said that out of everything I'm getting, DHP is by far the most expendable (at least as far as he was concerned).

But I want my cake and eat it too. I want the option of having both the sport suspension and a softer, more comfortable suspension. DHP is the only option for that.

By the way, I suppose DHP is good for the track, but it also gives people the option of softening the ride, so I doubt your dealer knows what he is talking about.
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  #557  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:21 PM
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Just to be clear, I LOVE the DHP package. I ordered it on my car, and wouldn't order a BMW without it. But, I'm coming from a $75K M3. I'm not looking for a $35K 320i and expecting to be able to get it to perform in a similar manner.

As the MSRP gets lower (i.e. 320i), these extra features like DHP become a larger percentage of the purchase price, thereby dissuading both customers and dealers from adding it on. Everyone knows and can understand the value of Navigation or even comfort access. But adjustable suspension and steering to a buyer coming from a 3-year lease on a Jetta, Camry or Acura? C'mon. A base 320i is going to handle way stiffer than any other car in its class.
Yes, 100% agree.

Especially the part about the base 320 handling way stiffer than a Camry, Acura, etc..

I'm getting a 335 and DHP, but honestly, for the 320 price range, DHP is over the edge...

If you start adding DHP, HK, etc., then why even bother putting out the 320 in the first place...Makes no sense.

I actually think they should consider the exact opposite approach. Instead of adding things like DHP, they should consider cloth seats and such, and go a little more down range...
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  #558  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:23 PM
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That's bizarre. If I get the 320 it will definitely have the sport package because I dislike the basic seats and want the sport ones; but I can't see why you'd get the short throw standard.

I assume they pay people money to market research these things and they are not random, but sometimes I wonder....
I hope I'm not giving misinformation because I'm really only going by the pictures. I haven't seen it in writing anywhere. (But I don't see it in writing anywhere for the 328i either.)

So best if you can get it confirmed from a dealer.
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  #559  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:24 PM
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Ever try rationalizing a 16 speaker, 600 watt sound system with your wife??? What about the Dynamic Handling package, a sport transmission with paddle shifters, and a 300 HP twin power turbo engine???

Exactly. That's why I didn't even bother. I just told her what car I'm getting, how much I'm spending, and when I'm getting it.
One of my buddies does not even tell his wife, he just drives a new car home and the wife will know when she sees it
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  #560  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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Yes, 100% agree.

Especially the part about the base 320 handling way stiffer than a Camry, Acura, etc..

I'm getting a 335 and DHP, but honestly, for the 320 price range, DHP is over the edge...

If you start adding DHP, HK, etc., then why even bother putting out the 320 in the first place...Makes no sense.

I actually think they should consider the exact opposite approach. Instead of adding things like DHP, they should consider cloth seats and such, and go a little more down range...
I think they're near the bottom, as it is. Cloth seats are practically unheard of on $30K+ cars in the US. More importantly, the BMW leatherette looks and feels close enough like leather that most can't tell the difference. And when someone gets in your new 320i for the first time, they'll just assume it's leather and enjoy it. If it was cloth, the most common reaction (here in the US) would be something like "whoa, brand new Beemer and they give you cloth seats like in a Malibu?"
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  #561  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:30 PM
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Nowhere in that conversation do they specifically mention "enthusiasts". You are still misinterpreting the market for this car. Young, value-conscious and trim (as related to configuration options).. YES. Performance-minded or for the enthusiast? NO. That is what the 328i/335i is for.

320i could be the perfect car for a 70 year old fellow that enjoys cars, but doesn't need every last bit of performance... or even the 35 year old mom who wants something more fun to drive and styled better than the Camry.
That's beauty of it it can appeal to what you're describing as well as for folks like me, looking for a barebones-sport-sedan at a reasonable price. Look, we can debate the virtue of the 320 and it's intended market, but at the end of day it will have mass appeal within the segment described, consumers looking for value and reasonable performance at an attractive price. Those wanting more and able to pay more will walk pass and look at the 328 if not the 335.
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Last edited by Vector Pilot; 01-24-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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  #562  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:34 PM
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That's beauty of it it can appeal to what you're describing as well as for folks like me, looking for a barebones-sport-sedan at a reasonable price. Look, we can debate the virtue of the 320 and it's intended market, but at the end of day it will have mass appeal within the segment described, consumers looking for value and reasonable performance at an attractive price. Those wanting more and able to pay more will walk pass and look at the 328 if not the 335.
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I can appreciate what you're looking for in a car. Heck, the best scenario would be to wait 1-2 years for a 320i with the B38 3-cylinder (lighter than N20), and throw $2000 worth of coilovers and engine tune on there. Now you're <$40K for a fast, tossable sedan that looks great and will get 30mpg all day long.
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  #563  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:50 PM
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I can appreciate what you're looking for in a car. Heck, the best scenario would be to wait 1-2 years for a 320i with the B38 3-cylinder (lighter than N20), and throw $2000 worth of coilovers and engine tune on there. Now you're <$40K for a fast, tossable sedan that looks great and will get 30mpg all day long.
Thanks the advice but our needs are immediate, like this year. We're currently driving a E92/335 and Z435i and we need a car that can haul stuff as well as more than one passenger plus use it as daily commuter. There's a lot options out there but we prefer driving BMW's.
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  #564  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:55 PM
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Thanks the advice but our needs are immediate, like this year. We're currently driving a E92/335 and Z435i and we need a car that can haul stuff as well as more than one passenger plus use it as daily commuter. There's a lot options out there but we prefer driving BMW's.
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I came from an E92 M3... the coupes just aren't the best daily drivers. I think you'll like whatever F30 you end up with. I could use a tad more rear seat room (car seats), but otherwise my ActiveHybrid 3 seems great for both road trips, commuting and hauling the kids.
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  #565  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:34 PM
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One of my buddies does not even tell his wife, he just drives a new car home and the wife will know when she sees it
Yes, actually, I'm sort of fortunate. My wife gives me plenty of room when it comes to my cars. Plus, a loaded 335 is well within her budget parameters anyway. If I started looking at an M5 or M6, then that would be an issue.

But if I really had to cut back, I'd be perfectly ok with a 328 Luxury line minus DHP and the sport transmission. That could have saved me about $4500 (or more) right there, and I would have been ok with that...
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  #566  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:27 PM
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Neither had a single car in stock with it. And these are big SoCal dealers. So perhaps they don't know what they are talking about.
Chicken or the egg...they'll talk DHP down since they don't have a car on the lot with it. The same way some NorCal dealers tried to tell me that having 3 pedals is waste unless I went to the track every weekend, .
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  #567  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:31 PM
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Chicken or the egg...they'll talk DHP down since they don't have a car on the lot with it. The same way some NorCal dealers tried to tell me that having 3 pedals is waste unless I went to the track every weekend, .
Good point (although they already knew I was going to order something and what they had on the lot was irrelevant to that).

But I agree overall. I can't tell you how many dealers in one place or another (not just BMW) have tried to tell me that having an automatic where you control the gear shifting is the "same thing as a manual transmission."
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  #568  
Old 01-25-2013, 05:05 PM
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F30 320i

One point not yet mentioned here is that, world-wide, the 320i is the best selling BMW 3-series. It's about time this car was offered here in the U.S. When I bought my 2003 325i, I didn't feel the need to pay for the 330i. The 320i specs are similar to my old 325i, a sport package is also offered, and there is a similar price savings.
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  #569  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:45 AM
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[QUOTE=jjcruiser; I can't tell you how many dealers in one place or another (not just BMW) have tried to tell me that having an automatic where you control the gear shifting is the "same thing as a manual transmission."[/QUOTE]

Not surprised.
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  #570  
Old 01-27-2013, 03:53 AM
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It's about time this car was offered here in the U.S.
I understand why BMW is offering the 320. The 320i de-emphasizes BMW's performance to attract a wider, affluent audience.

It's hard to believe, but after all these years there are still a great many consumers, specifically luxury-car buyers, who associate BMW with the yuppie phenomenon of the 1980s.
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  #571  
Old 01-27-2013, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vector Pilot View Post
That's beauty of it it can appeal to what you're describing as well as for folks like me, looking for a barebones-sport-sedan at a reasonable price. Look, we can debate the virtue of the 320 and it's intended market, but at the end of day it will have mass appeal within the segment described, consumers looking for value and reasonable performance at an attractive price. Those wanting more and able to pay more will walk pass and look at the 328 if not the 335.
Highest Regards
The problem, say BMW brass, is that for too long it has perhaps overemphasized the brand as the paragon of performance driving. BMW, indelibly etched in performance-car enthusiasts' psyches as "The Ultimate Driving Machine" in ads for 33 years, is showing a different plume of feathers with the 320i. Rather than horsepower and curve-hugging handling, it's leveraging the badge to diversify and "expand" their core customer. Will BMW lose its way? My two cents yes, they already have ever since they drop the "The Ultimate Driving Machine." And trying to be everything to everyone. I think its a bad bad idea! But I understand.
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Last edited by DrT; 01-27-2013 at 04:03 AM.
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  #572  
Old 01-27-2013, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
I understand why BMW is offering the 320. The 320i de-emphasizes BMW's performance to attract a wider, affluent audience.

It's hard to believe, but after all these years there are still a great many consumers, specifically luxury-car buyers, who associate BMW with the yuppie phenomenon of the 1980s.
A BMW is a status symbol with some sporty tendencies. Period.

It hasn't been a "sports car" since the 1990's. BMW decided that there was more money to be made cultivating the wealth-persona than the performance-persona, so every 3 Series has gotten progressively bigger and softer until you get to the F30 with its "Luxury" line and "Comfort" mode.

The yuppie phenomenan has not stopped since the 1980's. In fact, it's grown. Watch some movies, see some TV shows, listen to some rap and rock songs, BMW references are everywhere. As it should be. The car tells you what it's customers want. They spend millions on research. The car is softer and more luxurious because that's precisely what 90% of its owners want. The 10% who subscribe to the performance myth don't pay the bills.

Those who are embarassd by the perception of wealth shouldn't be driving $50,000 German luxury status-symbols even if they can be de-spec'd to $30,000.

BJ
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  #573  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:04 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
A BMW is a status symbol with some sporty tendencies. Period.

It hasn't been a "sports car" since the 1990's. BMW decided that there was more money to be made cultivating the wealth-persona than the performance-persona, so every 3 Series has gotten progressively bigger and softer until you get to the F30 with its "Luxury" line and "Comfort" mode.

The yuppie phenomenan has not stopped since the 1980's. In fact, it's grown. Watch some movies, see some TV shows, listen to some rap and rock songs, BMW references are everywhere. As it should be. The car tells you what it's customers want. They spend millions on research. The car is softer and more luxurious because that's precisely what 90% of its owners want. The 10% who subscribe to the performance myth don't pay the bills.

Those who are embarassd by the perception of wealth shouldn't be driving $50,000 German luxury status-symbols even if they can be de-spec'd to $30,000.

BJ
So why not go mercedes? Far more status. They give S550s free at my office if you rate.
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  #574  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:35 AM
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So why not go mercedes? Far more status. They give S550s free at my office if you rate.
BMW simply looks better.

That, and the performance-persona give drivers the perception of being 'sporty' at the same time driving a luxury car.

BJ
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  #575  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:07 AM
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BMW simply looks better.

That, and the performance-persona give drivers the perception of being 'sporty' at the same time driving a luxury car.
Bingo. And they actually are more sporty than Benz, cause as soft as BMWs are getting, the opposition is still softer.
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