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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

View Poll Results: Do you think I should trade in my E70 for a 535 M Sport
Yea 15 71.43%
Nay 6 28.57%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:08 PM
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kakalika kakalika is offline
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Trade E70 for F10

Thinking of trading in my 2011 X5 diesel, sport package for a 535 M Sport. What do you guys think?
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:18 PM
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1985mb 1985mb is offline
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What does it matter what anyone thinks? You have your own reasons, I presume?
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2013, 07:46 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Did the opposite...in fact several members here traded their F10 for an E70. F10 has had a lot of growing pains but 2013s may be better now.
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2013, 08:17 PM
kckc1016 kckc1016 is offline
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i traded my e70 for a 550, love it.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:30 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Duh.

I'm sure the E70 is a great car and of course serves a different purpose, but man the F10 is a masterpiece of a car. Does everything well, IMO.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:39 PM
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Wife drives the X5. It definitely handles differently than my F10. Our X5 has the M Sport + Anti Roll so it corners like a sedan. The steering is hydraulic in the X5 so the feel is very different. I would say the steering feel matches closer to the 3 and I believe that's one of the reasons why some folks here went from an F10 to the E70. I like them both. Distinctively different.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:16 PM
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getz getz is offline
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The F10 will out perform the E70 in all areas excluding off road performance. The E70 is also fairly old tech and on its way out. I think the issues a model experiences are always overblown on the internet. Case in point being the major fears of IMS failures on 997.1 911s, much ado about nothing IMO. Loving my 550 so far other than the rather clunky interface between BMW apps and Pandora. As an aside the AWD F10s have hydraulic steering as well.
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  #8  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:46 AM
2WheelsRBetter 2WheelsRBetter is offline
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I had an '09 E70 35d. Nice car but I just never bonded with it. Turns out it was the vehicle that got me out of SUVs (pardon me - SAVs) and back to proper cars. Alas, my days of hauling hockey players are nearly behind me. The more I drive the F10 the more I appreciate it. No regrets.

Although I can no longer stop off at the furniture store and shove a club chair or electronics cabinet in the back...
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:09 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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You haven't said why you are contemplating this, which is crucial.
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:02 AM
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kakalika kakalika is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
You haven't said why you are contemplating this, which is crucial.
My excuse is not really valid. I am just feeling the need for something sportier, more nimble, and with a manual transmission! Plus, I love the look of the F10. I used to have an E60 545 sport with a manual. Really miss it. Traded it in on the X because the X seemed practical for the family at the time. I always had the F10 in mind.
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:26 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakalika View Post
My excuse is not really valid. I am just feeling the need for something sportier, more nimble, and with a manual transmission! Plus, I love the look of the F10. I used to have an E60 545 sport with a manual. Really miss it. Traded it in on the X because the X seemed practical for the family at the time. I always had the F10 in mind.
Seems valid to me. I drove SUVs for about 10 years, couldnt wait until I get back into a sedan. The X5 does handle pretty well, but its still a SUV. I also like the driving position of a sedan better. If you dont need a lot of cargo space, the F10 is the way to go.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:59 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakalika View Post
My excuse is not really valid. I am just feeling the need for something sportier, more nimble, and with a manual transmission! Plus, I love the look of the F10. I used to have an E60 545 sport with a manual. Really miss it. Traded it in on the X because the X seemed practical for the family at the time. I always had the F10 in mind.
Not valid is in the eye of the beholder.

The F10 is not as taut and nimble as the E60. But if you get it in MSport it will be decent. Drive it and see.

But if you don't need the X5's cargo room, why penalize yourself.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:01 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakalika View Post
My excuse is not really valid. I am just feeling the need for something sportier, more nimble, and with a manual transmission! Plus, I love the look of the F10. I used to have an E60 545 sport with a manual. Really miss it. Traded it in on the X because the X seemed practical for the family at the time. I always had the F10 in mind.
Makes sense. Mine is a 6MT and I love it. Try one with M sport suspension and with adaptive drive and see which one you like. Neither is the same as the E60, but they are both still good. Even with adaptive drive the F10 does not drive like my old E60 with sport package and ARS. I prefer the E60 from a handling and steering feel standpoint, but the F10 is much better in the build quality and reliability arena. To get E60 feel you have to go M5.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:52 AM
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1985mb 1985mb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Not valid is in the eye of the beholder.

But if you don't need the X5's cargo room, why penalize yourself.
+1. We all have our reasons for what we drive. As long as you're not harming anyone or your finances, go drive what you like. Life's short.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:28 PM
bmwombat bmwombat is offline
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That's jusy what I did - traded my E70 4.4 X5 Sport for an F10; no regrets although I still haven't got my F10 yet, but only another 1-2 weeks to go now! I'd always had 5ers but always felt that I wanted to drive an X5 & while I really enjoyed it (one of my mates likened it to the a380 shoving you back in the seat when it really took off) I also never really bonded with it, So now back to my 1st love - the 5 series.
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:18 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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FWIW we have both, and I find the E70 35D immensely more satisfying. Better seats, better steering feel, no tip in issues, no weird vibrations or other silliness. Plus an honest to God (donut) spare tire.

When the X5 goes off lease, it will likely be replaced by another BMW, but not an F10. Sorry.

Sent from my HTC Inspire using BimmerApp
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Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
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2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:39 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
FWIW we have both, and I find the E70 35D immensely more satisfying. Better seats, better steering feel, no tip in issues, no weird vibrations or other silliness. Plus an honest to God (donut) spare tire.

When the X5 goes off lease, it will likely be replaced by another BMW, but not an F10. Sorry.

Sent from my HTC Inspire using BimmerApp
You might like your seat hard, because the comfort seat in the X5 is harder than the 535's.

Sounds like you are comparing a 2011 X5 which has most of its bugs worked out already to a very buggy 1st year design F10.
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:51 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
You might like your seat hard, because the comfort seat in the X5 is harder than the 535's.

Sounds like you are comparing a 2011 X5 which has most of its bugs worked out already to a very buggy 1st year design F10.
BMW really did a number to themselves due to seemingly rushing out a 2011 F10. That specific model year seems to be the holder of most if not almost all negativity some people express toward the car.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2013, 05:49 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
FWIW we have both, and I find the E70 35D immensely more satisfying. Better seats, better steering feel, no tip in issues, no weird vibrations or other silliness. Plus an honest to God (donut) spare tire.

When the X5 goes off lease, it will likely be replaced by another BMW, but not an F10. Sorry.

Sent from my HTC Inspire using BimmerApp
You might like your seat hard, because the comfort seat in the X5 is harder than the 535's.

Sounds like you are comparing a 2011 X5 which has most of its bugs worked out already to a very buggy 1st year design F10.
The 18-way seats in my 550 were more comfortable than the 20-way seats in my X5M.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:04 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
You might like your seat hard, because the comfort seat in the X5 is harder than the 535's.
Hard? Not at all. The (non-comfort) "Sport Seats" on my E39 540 M Sport were "hard". The E70's are not. And even if they were, that's not the issue. The E70 comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters, as did all prior BMW's in my experience. These were "decontented" for US F10's (though I think they are still provided in Europe).

And the driver's seat lumbar support on our F10 is terrible - like a big chunk of concrete in the small of your back. So bad that the dealer decided the lumbar bladder was misaligned, and had an outside company rebuild the seat. It's "better" but it is still not "right" (and I've owned and leased a lot of BMW's). I posted about this when we had just gotten the F10, and from the number of responses, I know I was not alone.

I also find the seating position deficient. I feel like I am either sitting on the floor, or when the cushion is adjusted to a more comfortable height, the headroom is non-existent. (I'm 5' 9", so I can't imagine how a 6' 4" guy can get comfortable int he F10). And before you say "well of COURSE the X5 has more head room", I am comparing the F10 not just to the 3 E70's we've had, but also to the E39, E53, E60 and E93 M3 we've had in our garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Sounds like you are comparing a 2011 X5 which has most of its bugs worked out already to a very buggy 1st year design F10.
Yes, there were bugs in the 2011, many of which were addressed by software updates. Our F10's drivability is better after the updates. But to the best of my knowledge, the things that bother me the most about the car - the seats, the steering feel, and the lack of a spare - are the same on a 2013 as they are on our 2011.

Mrs. Quack loves the car, and it sure is pretty. But IMHO the OP should spend some serious seat time in an F10 before trading in his E70.
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Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2013, 06:52 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Hard? Not at all. The (non-comfort) "Sport Seats" on my E39 540 M Sport were "hard". The E70's are not. And even if they were, that's not the issue. The E70 comfort seats have adjustable side bolsters, as did all prior BMW's in my experience. These were "decontented" for US F10's (though I think they are still provided in Europe).
And the driver's seat lumbar support on our F10 is terrible - like a big chunk of concrete in the small of your back. So bad that the dealer decided the lumbar bladder was misaligned, and had an outside company rebuild the seat. It's "better" but it is still not "right" (and I've owned and leased a lot of BMW's). I posted about this when we had just gotten the F10, and from the number of responses, I know I was not alone.
I also find the seating position deficient. I feel like I am either sitting on the floor, or when the cushion is adjusted to a more comfortable height, the headroom is non-existent. (I'm 5' 9", so I can't imagine how a 6' 4" guy can get comfortable int he F10). And before you say "well of COURSE the X5 has more head room", I am comparing the F10 not just to the 3 E70's we've had, but also to the E39, E53, E60 and E93 M3 we've had in our garage.
Yes, there were bugs in the 2011, many of which were addressed by software updates. Our F10's drivability is better after the updates. But to the best of my knowledge, the things that bother me the most about the car - the seats, the steering feel, and the lack of a spare - are the same on a 2013 as they are on our 2011.
The two major difference I notice between the comfort seats in the F10 and the X5 is that X5's seat is frimer and the side blosters. Unless you are really wide or really slim, adjustable side bloster is not needed in my opinion. I find the lumber support to be the same in both comfort seats, I think you had a early build problem with your lumber support. Most 2012 and 2013 F10 owners like the comfort seats. I am about 6 ft tall and have no problem with F10's head room. I think you like the driving position of a SUV and adjust your seat as high as possible to simulate that. Most people who like driving SUVs like seeing over the dash board and the hood. As fast as the M3 having more head room than the F10, thats just ridiculous, according to Edmunds, the F10 have 2 more inches of headroom than the 2011 M3.
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:10 AM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The two major difference I notice between the comfort seats in the F10 and the X5 is that X5's seat is frimer and the side blosters. Unless you are really wide or really slim, adjustable side bloster is not needed in my opinion. I find the lumber support to be the same in both comfort seats, I think you had a early build problem with your lumber support. Most 2012 and 2013 F10 owners like the comfort seats. I am about 6 ft tall and have no problem with F10's head room. I think you like the driving position of a SUV and adjust your seat as high as possible to simulate that. Most people who like driving SUVs like seeing over the dash board and the hood. As fast as the M3 having more head room than the F10, thats just ridiculous, according to Edmunds, the F10 have 2 more inches of headroom than the 2011 M3.
Thanks for telling me my opinion is ridiculous.

"Lumber"? Yeah, the LUMBAR section of the F10's seat feels like it has a 2x4 sitting across my kidneys. Thanks for describing it better than I did.

I actually preferred the LOW seating position of my ///M3 over either the X5 or the 535. But don't take my word for it; you clearly know better what I like than I do.

For the record, I never said the ///M3 had more headroom. (Though clearly it did when the top was down). Rather, I find the seating position in the 535 inferior to either the ///M3 or the X5, no matter how much I play with the 18-way adjustable seats.

I was suggesting to the OP that he might want to spend extended seat time in the F10 before ditching his E70. I am thrilled that you like your F10's seats, but I do not share your satisfaction. Please do not insult me by saying that your opinion is the only one that matters.

For anyone interested, here are 2 threads on the subject. Note that Needs and Stealth also had issues with their seats, so I am not hte only one:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...scomfort+seats

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...riving+me+nuts
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Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic

Last edited by quackbury; 01-18-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:20 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Thanks for telling me my opinion is ridiculous.

"Lumber"? Yeah, the LUMBAR section of the F10's seat feels like it has a 2x4 sitting across my kidneys. Thanks for describing it better than I did.

I actually preferred the LOW seating position of my ///M3 over either the X5 or the 535. But don't take my word for it; you clearly know better what I like than I do.

For the record, I never said the ///M3 had more headroom. (Though clearly it did when the top was down). Rather, I find the seating position in the 535 inferior to either the ///M3 or the X5, no matter how much I play with the 18-way adjustable seats.

I was suggesting to the OP that he might want to spend extended seat time in the F10 before ditching his E70. I am thrilled that you like your F10's seats, but I do not share your satisfaction. Please do not insult me by saying that your opinion is the only one that matters.

For anyone interested, here are 2 threads on the subject. Note that Needs and Stealth also had issues with their seats, so I am not hte only one:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...scomfort+seats

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...riving+me+nuts
No need to get all twisted up, I never said that my opinion is the only one that matters nor did I ever said that I know what you like better than you do. Seats are very subjective to body type and shape. If there is one seat that is comfortable to everyone, then there would be no need to design another. I am simply sharing my opinion here and to point out that your seats were defective.
Some people like to sit low like in a M3 and other like to sit high in a X5. The F10 is somewhere in the middle. I guess you like it low in a M3 but still find the X5's high sitting position better than the lower sitting position of the F10. Am I the only one who see flaws in your logic?
For the record, you did M3 had more headroom by first complaining about the headroom in the F10 and in the next sentence stating that you were comparing it to the M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
when the cushion is adjusted to a more comfortable height, the headroom is non-existent. (I'm 5' 9", so I can't imagine how a 6' 4" guy can get comfortable int he F10). And before you say "well of COURSE the X5 has more head room", I am comparing the F10 not just to the 3 E70's we've had, but also to the E39, E53, E60 and E93 M3 we've had in our garage.
Just finished reading these thread you posted, it seems like most owners disagree with you about the seats and the few that agree owns 2011 models which means that they might have defective seats as well.

Last edited by The X Men; 01-18-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:59 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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I don't really agree that adjustable side bolsters are only needed if you are very slim or very large. Side bolsters are about support and fit. If you like supportive seats that you can brace against you need either a seat with high passive bolsters or adjustable bolsters. Adjustable bolsters allows the same seat to be supportive for most body types. High passive bolsters can be excellent but only for a a narrow range of body types. The F10 has neither high supportive passive bolsters or adjustable bolsters which is the norm in luxury cars while sportier cars offers one or the other. When you get used to being hugged and get support from the seat it's difficult to go back and feeling like you are being thrown around or swimming in the seat. It makes a large car feel even larger and I can't understand why they omitted this feature in the US. We get the sporty option of manuals but no supportive seats, it makes no sense BMWNA, especially since it comes in the F01 and I think even the F07. Come back with LCI?

Last edited by solstice; 01-18-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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  #25  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:12 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Mein Auto: 2015 535xi 2013 X3 35i
My guess is that the next gen X5 comfort seats will not have adjustable side bloster as well. I consider myself medium build and if the side bloster were adjustable, I would have adjusted them to where the current F10's non-adjustable side bloster is at right now. The only time I might want more side support is when I am really tossing the car around, but I really dont do that in my 535i. If I had a M5, that might be a difference story, BTW, even the M5 dont have adjustable side bloster I believe. At the end of the day, BMW design the F10 more for comfort than sport, the seats are design along the same philosophy, thats why they are softer than the X5's comfort seats.
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