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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:07 PM
Kanyewest Kanyewest is offline
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Has BMW lost the magic?

So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:11 PM
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Nothing on the road today looks like a BMW. While everyone feels the need to drastically change their designs(See Mercedes Benz) on refreshes, BMW feels confident, and all they add is a nip and tuck. The only thing I hate about the current 3 is the stupid lights meeting the grille. Other then that, the lines on a BMW can be mistaken for no other car. They're simply gorgeous. Especially the 6 Coupe. BMW might be losing it's touch in the 'driving pleasure' department but design? They've got that down.
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2013, 02:08 AM
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Bmw = Tasteful art most other makes =gaudy glitz. Making over sized front grills like Lexus and Audi are design fads. They quickly become outdated. Everyone gushed over the Hyundai sonata when it came out. It was a daring design that now looks dated. BMW doesn't follow fads and never look dated. My e90 is beautiful and still fresh looking. The F30 is even better looking, tastefully updated.
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  #4  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:37 AM
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The grass is always greener. I just came from 4 years in 4 different M-B's and I feel like BMW is on a whole different level above, not even really comparable when it comes to design, engineering, brand focus, technology and mostly drive.... even interior quality in many cases.

IMO if you drive a C250 and then a 328i (or a 535i and then an E350) there's really no comparison these days, which speaks volumes about why M-B's are leasing so drastically cheap even compared to BMW's aggressive incentives.

Audi has never really been my thing, but I admit they're warming up to me as well. I'm truly genuinely shocked as to how superior my BMW experience is to my Mercedes experiences before, however if BMW ever starts losing their grip on me, then aside from Porsche whom I always love, if Mercedes doesn't get their act together in both design and driving dynamics, I'd definitely be interested in seeing what Audi would be putting out at those times. IMO the A4 and A6 are good efforts but not quite there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Nothing on the road today looks like a BMW. While everyone feels the need to drastically change their designs(See Mercedes Benz) on refreshes, BMW feels confident, and all they add is a nip and tuck. The only thing I hate about the current 3 is the stupid lights meeting the grille. Other then that, the lines on a BMW can be mistaken for no other car. They're simply gorgeous. Especially the 6 Coupe. BMW might be losing it's touch in the 'driving pleasure' department but design? They've got that down.
200% agreed and completely well said. Look at BMW's recent facelifts indeed, they feel their initial designs are so well, they treat them with such confidence and care, that they don't do such about-face extensive refreshed lately, while M-B are doing drastic changes because Executives feel the designs aren't up to par, creating a haphazard "bandaid" effect.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 3284me View Post
Bmw = Tasteful art most other makes =gaudy glitz. Making over sized front grills like Lexus and Audi are design fads. They quickly become outdated. Everyone gushed over the Hyundai sonata when it came out. It was a daring design that now looks dated. BMW doesn't follow fads and never look dated. My e90 is beautiful and still fresh looking. The F30 is even better looking, tastefully updated.
Perfectly said. Mercedes designs are so complex consisting of so many fad-ish elements, wayward lines that are meant to attract the knee-jerk reaction in us, I feel they will look tired in due time, while BMW's current lineup is so tastefully classic yet still extremely fresh, it'll age timelessly and gracefully in comparison.

Seems lots of guys in the 3 camp aren't so enthusiast about the F30 here, which is surprising to me as I thought the car drove insanely better than anything under or around $40K I've ever driven.

I think BMW put so much attention into their 5-Series this time around, giving us essentially an IMO improved version of their $90K 7-Series interior, that we perhaps reap the most benefits from this generation of BMW (huge difference in craftsmanship and luxury between the 3 and 5 this time around), which may be why the sentiment on the F10 board is the least bit second-guessing of their decisions (save for those who hate the more coddling/luxurious approach of it).
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2013, 04:58 AM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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I'll tell you what I have noticed. I haven't seen an ad for BMW on TV since the Super Bowl! Yet, all day every day I am bombarded with Mercedes ads. Audi is a close second. I would bet the other guys spend 10 times the money on advertising. BMW cars sell themselves based on merit. Everyone knows that once you scrape enough money together, you go look at BMW if you car about driving cars at all. For the people just looking for prestige, Mercedes and Lexus are about equal, then Audi for the "non mainstream" people. My F30 M sport is like a spaceship in comfort and performance compared to my old Audi A4. My girlfriend recently got a new X1. It is so easy to drive and simple. It may be "based on the old platform" but I find it so basic in a good way. It reminds of how cars used to be except with modern performance and fuel economy. Honestly it doesn't compare to my 328i in any real way but let's be honest, it's a rear wheel drive, small suv/wagon that starts at $31k and is as fast as a VW GTI.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyewest View Post
So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.
I think it comes down to preference. BMW has some good clean designs like the new F10 and F30. Then it goes off into the weeds with cars like the X6 and 5 series GT.

Lexus is trying to change by creating an obnoxious new front-end grill that looks like an Audi 10 years ago.

Mercedes is having issues finding identity. They are where BMW was back in the Bangle butt era.

Audi seems to be rather consistent with gradual improvements and an overall strong identity from a design standpoint.
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyewest View Post
So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.
I felt that way 3-4 years ago, but now BMWs are looking great again - the six, the 3, the 5, all have much improved designs.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:42 AM
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E39 and E46 are considered timeless classics. But at the same time, some say they were boring and were out-blinged by MB.

E60 and E90 were polarizing/shocking but revolutionary...no one can say they were boring (outside of being accustomed to seeing so many of them). The love it or hate it looks meant they were not at all boring. This resulted in MB and a bunch of other manufacturers scrambling to come up with their own avant garde look (with some even resorting to blatantly copying design cues from BMW...even MB had an S-class that had a Bangle butt).

F10 and F30 are not without controversy but mainly this: they appeal to the more traditional BMW tastes and at the same time appeal to those who "get" the E60 and E90...seeing them as very handsome evolutionary descendants.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:58 AM
DavidM1975 DavidM1975 is offline
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OP - completely honestly I feel exactly the opposite way. I picked F30 already but if I had to do it all over again based solely on exterior look of all cars out there, starting from scratch today I strongly feel the current BMW design is the best. Audi... I preferred them when they were keeping to straight lines. Mercedes went through so many weird changes... and still they are not quite done. I'll wait and see what they are when they finally stop copying competition and come up with the next great something of their own. Lexus... it just never hit the spot with me really and their recent designs are as ugly as it gets: http://cdnlive.cardesignnews.com/det.../lexus-is-5-2/ - seriously, with a high dose of tolerance - WTF??!?!?

To me BMW's magic right now is the strongest ever!! .. but then we all have our own personal preferences that simply cannot be discussed.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:58 AM
DavidM1975 DavidM1975 is offline
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I felt that way 3-4 years ago, but now BMWs are looking great again - the six, the 3, the 5, all have much improved designs.
that too!
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:59 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Styling versus engineering

I do not buy BMWs for their styling. I buy them because they offer the best balance between sport and luxury, and because they are rather timeless in terms of styling.

If you go and look at cars (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, etc.) built after the E60 and E90 came out, you'll notice that virtually all riffed off BMW's new styling. Audi was lost and had to come up with the BIG GRILLE to be noticed. MB went with BIG STARS and CHROME. BMW has evolved, not had to change major elements (one can argue about the Bangle designs, but imitation is as they say the best form of flattery.)

If you care about styling and such, you won't end up being a 30+ year BMW owner like me.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:29 PM
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e90 outsold its counterparts. No reason to think the F30 won't do the same.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:09 PM
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If you go and look at cars (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai/Kia, etc.) built after the E60 and E90 came out, you'll notice that virtually all riffed off BMW's new styling. Audi was lost and had to come up with the BIG GRILLE to be noticed. MB went with BIG STARS and CHROME. BMW has evolved, not had to change major elements (one can argue about the Bangle designs, but imitation is as they say the best form of flattery.)
Exactly!
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:17 PM
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Bangle was before his time, but there is no questions he has influenced the design of today's cars. remember the bangle butt? so many cars now incorporate that styling.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:18 PM
dsackman dsackman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyewest View Post
So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.
You are not the only one thinking that BMW has lost / is losing its touch: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/...3.aspx?index=2

To be called one of the 6 worst cars at the Detroit show is nothing to brag about.



.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyewest View Post
So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.
Put it this way...

BMW is now run by bean counters (not by engineers) and they drive the brand into mainstream car manufacturers

No more Ultimate Driving Pleasure.... Just another car company (they are moving to Front WD as well too)
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
I think it comes down to preference. BMW has some good clean designs like the new F10 and F30. Then it goes off into the weeds with cars like the X6 and 5 series GT.

Lexus is trying to change by creating an obnoxious new front-end grill that looks like an Audi 10 years ago.

Mercedes is having issues finding identity. They are where BMW was back in the Bangle butt era.

Audi seems to be rather consistent with gradual improvements and an overall strong identity from a design standpoint.
Wow, perfectly said on all points, especially M-B's identity mess and Audi's carefully evolutionarily winning formula. True about the uber fugly X6 and 5 GT being the humbling point to BMW,
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:42 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
You are not the only one thinking that BMW has lost / is losing its touch: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/...3.aspx?index=2

To be called one of the 6 worst cars at the Detroit show is nothing to brag about.



.
Not a good example, that article has been discussed below in it's own thread.

Personally, I have liked many BMWs but cap it off at the e46 and e39. I have been less and less interested by what has come next since then.

But there were a lot of things that spoke to me about the eb2 MSport. I also like the idea of the lighter, higher output n55 based M3 sedan that is coming. That may replace my current F30 in less than 5 years.
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
You are not the only one thinking that BMW has lost / is losing its touch: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/...3.aspx?index=2

To be called one of the 6 worst cars at the Detroit show is nothing to brag about.



.
The 4 series concept has been generally praised as a very nice looking car. This is one guy's opinion and certainly not evidence that BMW has lost any magic.
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  #21  
Old 02-20-2013, 03:12 PM
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the last BMW with its touch and characters is E46

beyond that .... BMW is a German Honda
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:31 PM
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3284me 3284me is offline
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the last BMW with its touch and characters is E46

beyond that .... BMW is a German Honda
Maybe you should have saved money and bought a CRV lol
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:32 PM
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Maybe you should have saved money and bought a CRV lol
Nope I am buying E46 325i
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyewest View Post
So I have just recently joined the forums, and have loved browsing these for the past two years. You guys have all helped me a lot. But the reason for this post is, do you guys feel the same about BMW; as compared to the years prior to now. I have started getting mixed emotion from the cars designs. I feel as if Audi, lexus, and mercedes are starting to take risks to benefit them, while BMW is playing it safe. Seeing BMW on the road today doesn't surprise me as much as seeing the new mercedes and audis. Please respond with your opinion.

Kindly wait for M3, the next generation.
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  #25  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:35 PM
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They lost their magic right after they finished with E30's
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