Will the 2014 Lexus IS doom the F30 3er?!

Originally Posted by captainaudio

When Lexus first entered the market they made decent looking cars,

This is a decent-looking car? Compared to today's cars, the styling is positively ancient.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

OK, I just chose that title to stir up trouble.

Just watched video of it being introduced at the NAIAS and had to post....OMG that thing is absolutely butt ugly!! Seriously. What in the world is Lexus thinking?!

The engines are the same old ones, so I don't see how they would be able to do any damage to the 3.

Originally Posted by chasfh

This is a decent-looking car? Compared to today's cars, the styling is positively ancient.

That car is 22 years old.

Here are a BMW and a Mercedes from the same era.

And in that era Lexus was a force to be reckoned with.
The brand was introduced in 1990 and within a few years Lexus was the best selling luxury brand, a position that it held for years.
Lexus was also constantly at the top of the JD Powers reliability list.

The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4U-RmPY-xFU

Here's the video. It wasn't the photos that I first saw. It was the car in motion in this video. The proportions are just horrible.

I'd rather buy this than the ATS. In any event, the F30 looks like it will continue to reign supreme in its generation.

Originally Posted by The X Men

The early Lexus were build like a tank, much like the early Mercedes and the current BMW 5 and 7 series. The quality of Lexus have really gone down hill recently. There lastest Lexus models feels like its made of tin and they are full of rattles, I guess that is a by-product of a aggressive cost cutting program.

Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?

I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.

Here's an article from Oct, 2012....

******************************



And the winner is ... Japan.

Japanese brands took seven of the top 10 spots in Consumer Reports' annual reliability rankings, pushing aside their U.S. and European rivals. Toyota Motor Co.'s Scion, Lexus and Toyota brands took the top three spots and the Toyota Prius C, a subcompact hybrid, got the best overall score. Mazda, Subaru and Honda were close behind.

The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.

Ford and Lincoln, once top performers, plummeted to the bottom of this year's rankings because of persistent problems with glitchy touch screens and bumpy transmissions. Ford was also hurt because three normally reliable models - the Ford Escape, Ford Fusion and Lincoln MKZ - are all new for 2013, so Consumer Reports couldn't predict their reliability.

Also near the bottom were Chrysler Group's Chrysler, Dodge and Ram brands, which have been getting a fast makeover since partnering with Italy's Fiat three years ago. Consumer Reports says models with more features and more powerful engines, like the V-8 versions of the Chrysler 300 and Jeep Grand Cherokee - had the most issues.

The best-performing U.S. brand was Cadillac, from General Motors Co.

Volkswagen AG's luxury Audi brand made the biggest strides in this year's survey, climbing 18 spots to No. 8. It was the best-performing European brand. Glitch-free new models like the A7 sedan got high marks from Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of automotive testing.

"They're out-BMWing BMW, easily, in terms of the driving dynamics," he said.

Electric cars also got impressive results. The all-electric Nissan Leaf was Nissan's best performer, partly because its electric motor has fewer parts than a gasoline engine, Fisher said. But the Chevrolet Volt - an extended-range electric car that has both an electric system and a conventional engine and transmission - also got the highest score of any GM vehicle.

"GM took a lot of painstaking time to develop that car," Fisher said.

The Volt was recalled earlier this year because vehicles crash-tested by the government showed a risk of fire when coolant leaked from the battery. But Consumer Reports' rankings don't reflect that, since the magazine only asks respondents to note issues that have happened on their own vehicles. Only vehicles with 100 or more responses are included. Among 2012 models, the magazine got the most responses for the Honda CR-V, with nearly 3,000.

Fisher said the magazine is getting about the same number of complaints as it did five years ago. But issues with electronics, audio and touch-screen systems have increased while complaints about mechanical problems are down.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/toy...#ixzz2IFWT91kA

Originally Posted by pilotman

Can you please post a link to your source that Lexus quality has gone downhill, they have aggressive cost cutting and are full of rattles?

I am not a big consumer reports fan, but pick whatever source you want, i.e. JD Power, True Delta, CR, etc. and show me where Lexus quality is in the toilet as you claim.

Its my personal opinion, I have owned 4 Lexus since the early 90s. Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys. If you ever owned a recent Lexus and a 20 year old one, you would know exactly what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I find the exterior to be decent. I used to think the f30 front and rear ends were ugly; now I like the front and ignore the rear. I used to think the e60 was ugly. I used to think the "then new" Audi grill to be ugly on the a4 and a6. The new mercedes e-class front end? Used to be ugly to me...

I could go on. My point is simply that I no longer take my own initial reaction as something that's going to hold up.

Well, for me I like the current IS design pretty well. When I did the BMW Olympic 3 Series drive back in August I actually preferred to IS250 over the Merc C250 and the Audi A4. Its engine and transmission felt well matched, like they got along together. Unlike the powertrains in the Merc and Audi, which felt like they'd rather not have to be working together.

I've liked the F30 design from the beginning and I still do. I always liked the E60 exterior design, but I do not like the pre-LCI E60 interior. The LCI interior update made all the difference in the E60. I still think the current Audi front end treatment is butt ugly after however many years it's been. I think the entire Merc E Class exterior design is ugly. The previous Merc E Class was quite beautiful. I thought the current 7er kidney grill was too big the first time I saw it and I still do.

For me, my initial impressions don't generally change much.

Originally Posted by pilotman

who is calling this the latest 3 killer?

I think that Lexus caters to a different buyer than BMW.....

If you check both sides of the coin, a lot of the people on the Lexus forum like the new IS, and almost everyone on the BMW forum hates the new IS, and Lexus in general.

In fact, most here have no interest in Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, and vice versa.

I like Lexus because of their stellar reliability, and I have had some problems with every one of the four BMWs I have had....same goes for Acura and Infiniti....

And even Cadillac.

There is no point to these discussions, most of you would be very very hard pressed to ever consider a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti, Cadillac, etc...

Just keep buying the BMWs, if that is what makes you happy. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own.

BMW customers just don't like the Asian counterparts....(but it is amusing to me how many of you seem to have a Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc. as a second car, kid hauler, minivan, SUV etc etc...)

You like the reliability when it favors you, but not in the luxury segment I guess.

As I mention above, I actually preferred the IS over the Merc C and the Audi A4 when I did the BMW 3 Series comparison drive in August. In 2010, when I attended a BMW driving event for the new F10 5er I thought the Lexus GS350 was a significantly better performer than the new Merc E350, which was an absolute embarrassment to Mercedes.

I attended a Cadillac CTS-V Series driving event in October and found the CTS-V to be a great performer. It doesn't have the German feel that I prefer, but I would have to say it performs every bit as well as any ///M car I've driven.

I have a BMW bias, but I pretty much call 'em as I see 'em.

As for rattles and cost cutting BMW is not innocent.

I have a hard time believing that there is a large population who will be comparing the F30 and the IS. They are so radically different in personality that I can't see how someone who likes one would possibly like the other.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Its my personal opinion, I have owned 4 Lexus since the early 90s. Problems like rattles and cheap feel do not show up in reliability surveys. If you ever owned a recent Lexus and a 20 year old one, you would know exactly what I am talking about.

The Lexus SC coupe that I had was rated at the top of the JD Powers list of reliable cars. It was also near the top of the Consumer Reports reliably list. My present 335i is listed as unreliable by CU,

From my experience both cars have been very reliable. The 335i is as quiet as the Lexus was and in spite of being a convertible that has gotten beat up on NYC roads is rattle free.

I will leave the fact that the RFTs and the stock sport suspension sucked out of this conversation since I was able to rectify that issue. The fact that the car has remained rattle free in spite of the number of Pothole Explosions it endured does speak to the fact that the car is very solidly built.

CA

So what does the non-F look like?

My 335i was fairly reliable but the N54 is a problematic engine. Just had $3800 worth of extended warranty work done at 72K miles (wastegates, water pump, 2nd oil leak, and now after all of that work I have a very rough idle that I've not been back to the dealer to have checked). I want Japanese reliability but there's nothing out there that will drive like my E90.

Is this the non-f version?

I think the 2014 lexus IS looks decent although similar to the current IS. The problem with the current IS much like most of the other Lexus models is that they do not drive well. I will have to reserve judgement until I drive a 2014 IS but when I decide the time is right to get a new car, the F30 however will be on the top of my list while the IS is at the bottom.

Originally Posted by chris328

a retarded audi

LOL...Bangle on acid, flame melts plastic.....

Originally Posted by pilotman

Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

For example, many, many reviewers agree that the Lexus GS is a very worthy competitor to the current 5 series, with equal or better handling, but much better reliability.

Not sure how you can pan this car when you haven't driven it....

I read a review on the new IS few weeks ago. Lexus let a number of reporters test drive it around the treck while the car was fully camouflaged. According to them, much stiffer and much better handling. Will need to test for myself. Looks are of secondary importance, most of the time we spend is inside the car, so we can't even see how it looks like. Handling is more important.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

LOL...Bangle on acid, flame melts plastic.....

watch this, then look at the audi



it will transform into the new IS.

Originally Posted by chris328

watch this, then look at the audi

it will transform into the new IS.

That was the funniest discussion forum moment I've had in the past three years.

Bravo.

BJ

at least its different. to each his/her own

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

The new IS is not my cup of tea. The ATS on the other hand looks fantastic.

I think your statement, although short, is very important.

Not all cars within a segment truly compete with each other. Consumers shopping in the "3" segment won't really consider all cars equally because they really aren't all the same even though they might be similar in size and price.

Cars have a design language and a personality and consumers typically identify with a particular design language and personality. Within the "3" segment I think the cars are grouped into sub-groups: 3 series, C class, A4 and ATS are close enough in design language and personality that consumers will cross shop them. Infiniti and Lexus are close enough to cross shop them. But how often will and Infiniti buyer seriously cross shop a 3 series, and vice versa? I think thats less common.

I guess what I'm saying is, Infiniti and Lexus are probably going to end up battling each other for a small piece of the "3" segment, while BMW, Audi, Merc and Cadillac will battle for the lion's share.

IS grill is freaken ugly

Originally Posted by pilotman

Lexus engineers claim they have engineered this car from the ground up for better handling and performance, and it does seem they have been having some success in this regard.

Early previews of the car say that's mostly just Lexus marketing talk.

Originally Posted by moviebumm

I think the 2014 lexus IS looks decent although similar to the current IS. The problem with the current IS much like most of the other Lexus models is that they do not drive well. I will have to reserve judgement until I drive a 2014 IS but when I decide the time is right to get a new car, the F30 however will be on the top of my list while the IS is at the bottom.

If the new IS hnaldes anything like the new GS, the F30 will have take a backseat to it.