Will the 2014 Lexus IS doom the F30 3er?!

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Had 9 dyno pulls back to back within 2hp of each other. No heatsoak. If you are like me, you want more. Gains from a turbo car are low hanging fruit while gains from NA engines were small potatoes.

Maybe it is the N20 then. As far as turbos go, been there and done that. I want a high revving, no headaches NA engine unless I am leasing the car.

I don't think the IS will doom the 3 Series, but according to C&D it should certainly give it a run for its money...



For the first poster who said it was about as fun as riding an elevator, I don't think so.

I flipped through the Car and Driver article. The Lexus won over the BMW. BMW's numb electric, not hydraulic, steering was to blame.

Originally Posted by Dave 20T

I flipped through the Car and Driver article. The Lexus won over the BMW. BMW's numb electric, not hydraulic, steering was to blame.

Which is odd, cause in Car and Driver's first drive of the Lexus they said the steering was completely lifeless. And that it was less fun that the previous IS, which wasn't much fun.

Driven back-to-back with the current IS, the 2014 proved to be the more stable of the two. It's likely that overall grip has increased, but some of the IS's playfulness and character have been sacrificed to the holy trinity of NVH. It's a small difference and one that likely can be chalked up to the heavier GS-based architecture-the IS is up to 176 pounds heavier.

This was before some senior editor said "make sure it beats the 3 series in the comparo."

don't kid yourselves, Lexus makes boring cars, always have, always will. It takes them $400,000 to make a fun car.

For a moment, forget about Lexus. Is BMW's steering improved or is hydraulic better?

Formula to keep readers engaged in your magazine:

Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.

Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.

Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.

This will happen with the IS

Originally Posted by Dave 20T

For a moment, forget about Lexus. Is BMW's steering improved or is hydraulic better?

"Verdict:
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6

Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.

I suppose a Japanese psychiatrist once employed by Toyota was tasked with selling their Mercedes Benz knockoff to gullible Americans.
"Call it Lexus" was his solution, "it will remind the Americans of luxury!"
What is up with Lexus' signature "fat lady" grill I will never understand... It's fugly!

Originally Posted by samualcc

Formula to keep readers engaged in your magazine:

Part 1 - Do a first drive article praising the car and find one critical item you are concerned about. Suggest that perhaps said critical item will be fixed as you are driving a pre-production car. Splash first drive headline across the top edge of the cover.

Part 2 - Feature said car in a 1 on 1 comparison test with the current darling of the class. Make sure it beats the car or comes close. Make points which contradict both the first drive and previous reviews of the comparison car. Wonder out loud if the current industry leader is losing its luster. Advertise this as front page news.

Part 3 - Do an 8 car comparison test inviting inferior competitors which hardly compete with the top three cars in the comparison. Again contradict yourself by having the industry darling win the comparison, claim it wasn't even close and place the new rival in 4th place.

This will happen with the IS

Well said. There's a reason they give this magazine away to subscribers for like 50 cents an issue.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

"Verdict:
Handling? Check. Efficient and powerful? Check. Lousy tires? Check. Steering feel? Check, please."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6

Unfortunately at the moment it is one of the worst in this segment.

The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?

Originally Posted by Chris90

The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?

What's worse is the F30's feel is actually not as zero as the other zeroes.

If we have learned nothing else here on Bimmerfest we have learned.

1. When BMW wins a magazine comparo it is because expert car savvy journalists recognize the superiority of BMW products.

2. When BMW loses a magazine Comparo it is because the magazine staff are a bunch of corrupt liars who were bribed into voting for a car that they all knew was vastly inferior to BMW products.

The bottom line is that that the F30 suspension and steering have almost universally criticized in the automotive press. I haven't seen any reviews that panned the car as a whole and some aspects of the F30 such as the new 4 cylinder engine and the 8 speed automatic have received almost universal praise. From all indiacations the F30 is n excellent car and a step forward from the E9x in many ways, but apparently not in all ways.

It appears that once BMW went to RFTs on the 3 Series they have had a hard time getting a balance between ride quality and performance. BMW is not the only manufacturer that is getting criticized for the feel of the electric power steering. The electric power steering on the new Porsche 911 has also received mixed reviews. In the ratings the BMW power train came in first (with the engine and transmission getting 10s - the highest possible rating) but the chassis ratings were last.

The Car and Driver article said: "Bumps that the Lexus absorbs and that the Cadillac shrugs off with a single succinct compression and rebound make the BMW pitch and roll and fight to stay on line". And the test car was equipped with the M-Sport package. They also said of the 335i "When engaged it is superbly balanced".

The bottom line is that all three are very good cars and each had areas they excelled but I would not discount the fact that the BMW was rated as less "fun to drive" than the other two. That does not mean that the F30 is not fun to drive but it does indicate that BMW has perhaps lost the edge that they once held in that area,

And no, the IS will not doom the 3 Series. The 3 Series is selling very well and will continue to sell very well and the vast majority of those who purchase one will not regret it.

CA

The only thing I've learned here is that Lexus' are re-badged Toyota's.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The only thing I've learned here is that Lexus' are re-badged Toyota's.

Well I suggest you do some studying because we are having a quiz.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Well I suggest you do some studying because we are having a quiz.

CA

Is the quiz going to be re-badged as a test? The new IS is a very nice piece of machinery.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

....That does not mean that the F30 is not fun to drive but it does indicate that BMW has perhaps lost the edge that they once held in that area,

This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.

BMW tailors towards the market. Cars are getting bigger and bigger to accommodate safety technology, and better fuel economy standards and the growing(stomach wise) American market.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.

I was heading north on the Sawmill River Parkway on Saturday. I was with a friend who had not been in my car (we were in the 335i) since I had installed the Koni FSDs and the Continental DWS. He commented on how much better the ride quality was. A 135 convertible went by us and hit when it was just ahead of us it hit a frost heave, My passenger said that he actually say the left rear wheel leave the pavement.

Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not. I would like to see C&D do the comparo again with an F30 with DHP.

CA

Originally Posted by Chris90

The F30 steering has zero feel. The competition has zero feel. How is zero less than zero?

Most of the competition here bested the F30 in this category. Only one that scored lower was the Volvo.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf

It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

What's worse is the F30's feel is actually not as zero as the other zeroes.

It is regarded as the worst, only ahead of the Volvo. See my post above.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

This seems to be part of a trend that started years ago? An old friend of mine once said that he can feel his E46 M3 run over a cigarette but his E36 M3 would've told him what brand.

Oh, and he added that his wife's E90 335 would go airborne after hitting the cigarette.

That is why I really appreciate cars like the ATS or perhaps the upcoming S3/2 Series.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Most of the competition here bested the F30 in this category. Only one that scored lower was the Volvo.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ison-tests.pdf

It was bested by the Infinity, MB and Audi. Most recently and importantly you can also add the IS and ATS to that list.

Infiniti G25 gets a 10 for steering feel? It's on par with an E36 M3 then? Right.

Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.

The IS instrument cluster is pretty cool though. It's straight from the LF-A.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Road feel is a good thing but an overly stiff suspension is not.

CA

Couldn't agree more. Some people want a "race" suspension on their car for bragging rights, but such people haven't driven on a race track. Tracks are smooth. Real roads are not. A hard suspension will cause tires to lose contact with the road on irregular surfaces, which is terrible for handling.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Infiniti G25 gets a 10 for steering feel? It's on par with an E36 M3 then? Right.

Car and Driver is worthless. They were worthless back when they picked BMWs first as well.

C & D is by far the best out of the mainstream magazines and is very much enthusiast oriented. They tell it how it is and some people get all upset. LOL! Kudos to C&D for their excellent reviews.