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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:33 PM
mikeriley mikeriley is online now
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Former 5er guy now with Audi comparison

Before I begin I want to start by saying how great the people on this forum are. No disrespect at all intended, thank you all for your input and advice!

At the end of my fellowship at Yale I started to look for a new car. It would be my first real nice car. Previously I drove SAABs because of my connection with GM discounts. In retrospect SAABs were really fantastic and I was so lucky to drive such nice cars during residency.

I originally was looking at an E92 sport with manual. My girlfriend at the time, now my wife, convincent me that I should go for a 5 series because I was a big guy (6'4''). Best decision I ever made. Did a ED with the perfect E60, sport, manual, hifi, nasca leather, ventilated seats, etc. Loved that car. But....Had to turn it in after 2 years. Wish I did a 3 year on that baby!

So I did another ED, moved to the midwest and took advantage of the great deals on E93 M3 vert. Beautiful car, white with full fox red. but so impractical for me at the time. Swap a leased it after 9 months. After that ordered a 2011 F10 550x msport. WORST CAR EVER. Drove like a pig. hated it. even my wife would say, its so luxuries, but not sporty at all. The supposed comfort seats were a huge step back from the E60, so disappointed in fellow festers telling people how good the seats are on the new F10.

So, finally I got rid of that car after a year.

Took a trip to the dark side. Bought, not leased, a A7. Phantom black, Prestige, 20' Sport, Bang and Olufsen, and Technology (cruise, night vision, HUD, etc)

Wow! what a car. feels just as fast as the 550 but handles WAAAAAAAY better. No boat like feeling. Love the dynamic cruise. Best option on the car besides the Band and Olufsen which sound incredible.

Now the driving part. The Audi schools the F10 left and right, up and down. No question. It feels 90% of the E60. All of the audi setting feel great. The best part....If you like sport, the car stays in sport when you start in up. All settings remain, including seat and wheel heaters. Why can't bmw do that?

Now there is the emotional part. My wife nailed if perfectly, the car is perfect...but its not a BMW. Its underlying parts still feel weak, like its a volkswagon. I can't wait for BmW to fix its problems (steering, handling, seating) and I want to come back. Please fix this on the LCI. SEATS EXCPECIALY. we need the side bolsters back. Those that praise the crap F10 comfort seats have no idea how goood seats can be.

Keep Bimmering my Friends,
MR

Last edited by mikeriley; 01-11-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:38 PM
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Agree with you on the side bolsters..I really miss them on my F10.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:56 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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Yes. I agree that the F10 is a lousy car to drive. Looks great, but sucks big time in terms of driving pleasure. Truly disappointed .
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:22 AM
bretov bretov is offline
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Our family owns both BMW and an Audi a6 2013...
Just two points new BMW 5 series is NOT a great looking in my families and it drives more like a Lexus then a BMW... I drive 335 vert and I can't say that I like how A6 drives but its a far cry from a new 5 series...

For people looking for good BMW sedan either buy Audi or 3 or 6 series BMW .

My point is that BMW still makes great looking cars that are pleasure to drive in any condition, but it's not a 5 series... 3 series yes, 6 serious, yeah baby !
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:42 AM
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OK, so here we go again. Haven't seen this type of 5-bashing for a while now. You made a choice, be happy with it. Now we're going to get the diatribes again about how "bad" the F10 is? Personally, I think the A7 is an ugly car. Haven't driven it, I'll believe it might handle better. I see several A7's in my workplace garage, can't get past the drooping butt look. What exactly is the purpose of your thread?
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:43 AM
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I feel the same way. My 2011 DHP equipped 535 is pretty boaty, loosey goosey feeling. It feels like it is never comfortable, never tracking straight. The suspension feels like it is never settled down.

Personally, I think the A7 is ugly and the A6 is boring looking. Interiors are nicely laid out but materials are no where near the quality of the BMW, especially mine with perforated vented Nappa. But dynamically, the A6 3.0T Sport spanks my car. My car has no where to hide, and wouldn't have any idea where it went.

I've tried every software update, and PSS tires. Multiple software reloads, etc. It's the toughest car to drive I've ever driven. Between take off tip in, occasionally laggy throttle while underway, unpredictable breaks / stopping power. It's just tiring to drive.

However, not sure what to do. Don't want to get an A6. 3 series too small. Porsche too expensive.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:01 AM
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I wonder where test drives went...
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  #8  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markl53 View Post
OK, so here we go again. Haven't seen this type of 5-bashing for a while now. You made a choice, be happy with it. Now we're going to get the diatribes again about how "bad" the F10 is? Personally, I think the A7 is an ugly car. Haven't driven it, I'll believe it might handle better. I see several A7's in my workplace garage, can't get past the drooping butt look. What exactly is the purpose of your thread?
Maybe to rightfully give his opinion on how the F10 has been softened up, compared to other German sport sedans, since he used to own one.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:24 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
Before I begin I want to start by saying how great the people on this forum are. No disrespect at all intended, thank you all for your input and advice!

After that ordered a 2011 F10 550x msport. WORST CAR EVER. Drove like a pig. hated it. even my wife would say, its so luxuries, but not sporty at all. The supposed comfort seats were a huge step back from the E60, so disappointed in fellow festers telling people how good the seats are on the new F10.
No disrespect intended, but calling the 550xi the WORST CAR EVER is about the most direspectful statement one can make in an F10 forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bretov View Post
For people looking for good BMW sedan either buy Audi or 3 or 6 series BMW .
The 5 Series crushed the A6/A7 combined US sales in 2012: 56,798 vs 27,596. So people looking for the good BMW sedan actual buy the 5 Series.

I for one really enjoyed my 550xi and as a guy who actually drives BMWs the way they are meant to be driven, the 550xi is a very capable car. Yes it lacks the level of crude NVH characteristics traditionally associated with the term sportiness, but that's a good thing. I've run against the E60 M5 at the track and in the twisties and the F10 is a very capable car.
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:25 AM
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Here we go again. Why are you bringing up that FWD VW in this enchanted beloved BMW froum

What's so VW feeling about the A7? Some BMW fanboys told me its based on a Passat CC, is that true?
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
The 5 Series crushed the A6/A7 combined US sales in 2012: 56,798 vs 27,596. So people looking for the good BMW sedan actual buy the 5 Series.
When you can lease one for as much as a loaded 3 series or buy one for thousands under invoice, of course, the BMW will sell better.

Mercedes and BMW have made the MSRP a complete joke for their entire lineup.
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
I feel the same way. My 2011 DHP equipped 535 is pretty boaty, loosey goosey feeling. It feels like it is never comfortable, never tracking straight. The suspension feels like it is never settled down.

Personally, I think the A7 is ugly and the A6 is boring looking. Interiors are nicely laid out but materials are no where near the quality of the BMW, especially mine with perforated vented Nappa. But dynamically, the A6 3.0T Sport spanks my car. My car has no where to hide, and wouldn't have any idea where it went.

I've tried every software update, and PSS tires. Multiple software reloads, etc. It's the toughest car to drive I've ever driven. Between take off tip in, occasionally laggy throttle while underway, unpredictable breaks / stopping power. It's just tiring to drive.

However, not sure what to do. Don't want to get an A6. 3 series too small. Porsche too expensive.
You seem to be having bad luck with cars. This, your old Volvo R
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:53 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I wonder where test drives went...
The most I ever drove a 535 on a test drive was 15 minutes. I encountered maybe 20% of the driving conditions I normally would. You just have to try to extrapolate that over the rest of the cars experience. It's hard to do so.

One other thing I found was that there was a lot of variation in the driving experience among early cars. I ended up buying a CPO car that was the same price I would have spent new but with more warranty and many more features. Turns out that was a mistake.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:57 AM
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You seem to be having bad luck with cars. This, your old Volvo R
Because I keep buying first year cars. One of these days I will learn.

Fortunately my MDX has has no first year problems.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:03 AM
5Xwen 5Xwen is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
After that ordered a 2011 F10 550x msport. WORST CAR EVER. Drove like a pig.

Took a trip to the dark side. Bought, not leased, a A7.

Wow! what a car. feels just as fast as the 550 but handles WAAAAAAAY better. No boat like feeling.

Now the driving part. The Audi schools the F10 left and right, up and down. No question.

MR

Let me start by saying that I leased an E60 for 3 years and now have an Audi A7. However, I did test drive the F10 several times before making a final decision.

Calling the F10 the WORST CAR EVER is laughable. The design intentions of the F10 certainly results in a car that is less of a "drivers car" than the prior gen E60, however, IMO it is still a great overall automobile.

I absolutely love my A7. Love the looks, fantastic supercharged engine, ride, tech, quattro and utility. However, the OP is mistaken on some points including the statement that the car stays in sport when you turn it on - it reverts back to Drive, not Dynamic Sport. I am surprised he does not know this.
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:20 AM
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bodonx bodonx is offline
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I respect OP's opinion that BMW driving is boring. I hate my F10 in that respect.

But, OP complained about comfort seat in F10, buy he did not complained about the seat in Audi. He loses his credibility on that topic.

Audi main weakness are the SEAT (not S6/S7) and the overall interior quality compared to F10.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:35 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post

I for one really enjoyed my 550xi and as a guy who actually drives BMWs the way they are meant to be driven, the 550xi is a very capable car. Yes it lacks the level of crude NVH characteristics traditionally associated with the term sportiness, but that's a good thing. I've run against the E60 M5 at the track and in the twisties and the F10 is a very capable car.
To be fair, though, you:

* Added lighter wheels and Michelin PSS tires.
* Were at Dinan stage 3 (4?) with power
* Added Dinan suspension
* Added Dinan exhaust.

How would you rate your stock car?
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:41 AM
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hufington hufington is online now
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Why do people not appreciate what they have and belittle great cars so easily? I wonder about the driving skills and expectations of one who calls a 550 the worst car ever. Not credible at all.
If that's the worst car ever, what should people who drive Kias, Hyundais,etc. feel about their cars? I guess this tread was started intentionally to create some drama. We should consider ourselves lucky to have the opportunity to own/lease and drive an F10.
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Last edited by hufington; 01-12-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:55 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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Decaf and OP, I feel for you. You are in the predicament I thought I was in. With the F10 being out of the question of too many and too well known reasons to repeat there is no alternatives for us who loved the E60/E39 type of car. I thought the 3 lacked the space I needed and quality of material I wanted. Luckily for me the M3 sedan has proven to solve all of that and more. But it is no more in production and I can see how it becomes cramped if you are a big guy. This is why some of us expressed our utter dissapointment over and over and over again with the F10. If there were alternatives it would not have been such a big deal. Decaf if the F30 is too small which rules out the upcoming M3 the best hope I can see is that the porsche Pajun will come in a few reasonably priced versions. There is no way BMW can or will fix all F10 shortcomings in relation to cars like the E60 with an LCI. I've now driven the new M5 and when it can't do it an LCI will for sure not. The M5 is really a fantastic car but it's lacking in connected feel and it drives very big IMO.

Last edited by solstice; 01-12-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2013, 12:45 PM
The X Men The X Men is online now
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mikeriley, your post lost all creditbility with me when you said the comfort seat on the F10 is terrible, yet, you did not complain about the A7's seat. I had a C7 A6 before my current F10, the A6's seat is the same as the A7 they are the worst part of the car. It is not even as comfortable as the F10's non-comfort seat. Many in the Audi forums have complain about the uncomfortable seats and the lack of an optional upgrade seat, including myself. Rattles are also a problem with the A6 and A7, its built quality is not as solid as the F10.
If you are looking for a harder suspension that comes with the better handling, then the A7 with sport package is the car for you. Power wise, the Audi 3.0T is somewhere between the 535 and 550. Bang and Olufsen sounds a bit better than the F10 premium sound, but not worth 9 times the price.
In the end, I am happy you like your A7, but there is no need to talk trash about the F10. The F10 does many things better than the A7, it just so happen that those quality are not the ones you are looking for. personally, if I were to choose betwwen the A7 and the 550i, its pretty a no brainer for me. The F10 is faster, better quality, better material and more comfortbale.
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  #21  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:14 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is online now
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So far no new insights in this thread.
@AutoUnion, isn't it a pity there are so many mall informed bashing terms used over and over again about all these fine cars.
@Forum members, when entering in these apples and pears discussions, should we not stay in the same price band?
@OP, I had comfort seats in my E61, the ones I got in my F11 I like even slightly better.

And well around where I come from different than the A5 style, the A7 is not very much loved, some say the car reminds them of a dog relieving itself.
That is an overstatement ofcourse, but the A7 in the same price category can not stand up to the F10.

Last edited by Sophisto; 01-12-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
To be fair, though, you:

* Added lighter wheels and Michelin PSS tires.
* Were at Dinan stage 3 (4?) with power
* Added Dinan suspension
* Added Dinan exhaust.

How would you rate your stock car?
To be fair I bought the 550 after comparing it to the Alpina B7x and the Porsche Panamera Turbo, so I was looking for a bit more than the typical 550 buyer. The stock 550 is very capable, but the key issue is the quietness of the car is misperceived as having a lack of performance.
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  #23  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
To be fair I bought the 550 after comparing it to the Alpina B7x and the Porsche Panamera Turbo, so I was looking for a bit more than the typical 550 buyer. The stock 550 is very capable, but the key issue is the quietness of the car is misperceived as having a lack of performance.
I would agree, many here think that.

However, that's not the issue with mine. The issue with mine is:

* Wandering steering - when on the highway, constant small corrections are required to keep the car moving straight. The car never feels settled. It feels nervous, and not in a good way. It is tiring.

* Take off hesitation / jerk. The car is impossible to pull away from a stop smoothly. Sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's like being rear-ended. Very aggravating. Also...

* Low speed roll on thump. When rolling through a right turn or perhaps a speed bump in the parking lot, larger applications of throttle following the almost stop results in a jerky downshift to first followed by wild RPM revving.

* Lack of predictable response to the throttle while underway. The latest software has helped this somewhat, however it still feels a bit lazy, like it is very reluctant to downshift. The engine is responsive, however the car sometimes just wants to stay in fuel saver mode.

* Uneven braking when slowing to a stop. Feels like the alternator cutting in and out or perhaps the transmission, makes it very difficult to smoothly pull to a stop.



All in all, small niggles that are very frustrating to an otherwise wonderful car. Now, I think my car is worse than most. I've driven later 2011's and 2012's that don't have the same issues. But overall the car does feel a bit sluggish and slow to react. By comparison, my MDX, which is nowhere near as civilized, but weighs 600 lbs more and has a higher center of gravity, is smoother to drive and feels more taught and composed.

Ponder that, unfortunately.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #24  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:55 PM
mangoboy mangoboy is offline
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Ok here is a new and fresh perspective from the new kid on the block. This is my first BMW I have ever owned and when the opportunity came to buy one and not lease I went straight to the top. I bought the 2012 550I Xdrive Titanum grey, with all the bells and whistle (except the night vision) ha. Since September when I picked it up after waiting for months for it to be delivered from Germany as I had it custom made this vehicle has not dissapointed in any way. The power, handling, comfort of the seats, vision and technology this vehicle has is truly incrediable. Not to sure about what that other GUY who started this thread is talking about being the worst car ever, but coming from the new kid on the block with his first awesome toy, not sure what to say FELLAS.
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  #25  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:12 PM
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What I want to see is a new shootout by one of the various magazines.

550xi vs S6 vs E550 4Matic Sport

all top spec, loaded up with all the various driving options/adaptive suspensions, etc. Would be interesting to see. The Mercedes is probably the more luxurious, S6 being the fastest, and the F10 is a mix of the two.


Having driven most of these cars, stock versus stock, the A6 3.0T is dynamically a better car than the 535xi. Same with 550xi vs S6. BUT when you look at ride comfort, luxury, BMW wins out

The Audi and BMW have sort of switched their roles with BMW being the more luxurious one, whereas Audi is the sportier one. Both are fantastic. You can't go wrong with either. If we base it entirely on pricing/dealer experience, even I would say the BMW would win because the dealers are better and you can get a fantastic deal on a 5. Can't be done on a A6/S6.

That being said, I'm just waiting for the diesel variants of both before I make my decision. The MB is out because no AWD. Leaves me with A6/7 TDI vs 535d
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