Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:22 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,428
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
What do we know about the "steel" (non electronic) suspension in 2013 M Sport models?

From what I understand (from here), 2013 M Sport (at least 535i's) cars get a new "M steel suspension", per se (no adaptive tech, etc.). I'm a big advocate for a good steel suspension (less fussy and when engineered right IMO can perform just as good if not better than a technological suspension), especially when trying to seek out sportiness, so the concept of it was welcoming to me.

I *feel* like this car felt tighter than the 2012 M Sport I drove several months ago, which made me wonder if that's in my head, or if anyone has any thoughts as to what it does better or worse than, say, a basic setup that came with a 2012 M Sport.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.

Last edited by K-A; 02-08-2013 at 05:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:44 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,049
Mein Auto: F11 530D
My information basicly from the CA is that a sport suspension as been an extra in europe from the start of the F10 is the way to go.
The softening up electronics is just a gimmck, the best driving performance is given by the sport non adaptive.
Adaptive suspension is a feature only seldomly used by the owner, ot is forgotten all the time, the soft is somethimg no one who really cares is looking for that.
So keep the money in the pocket and while it is available, in former years it was not in the US, get the "steel" sport suspension.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:53 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston, TX
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,427
Mein Auto: See Sig
All "Steel"? What was it made of before?
__________________
2012 BMW 550 M-Sport
2014 Lexus GS350---Wife's car
2013 BMW 1600 GT---2011 Kawasaki Ninja 1000---2012 Ducati Panigale
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:42 PM
ausdude's Avatar
ausdude ausdude is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,048
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i M-Sport
Previous cars used Forged Aluminum. Some of the models are now using more steel, as steel can provide the needed strength in a physically smaller (but heavier) form.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:43 PM
ausdude's Avatar
ausdude ausdude is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,048
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i M-Sport
But I had no idea that they are going back to steel. When I try and google this information I just get this forum thread and the thread you posted on in the MB forum. Where did you get this information?

Last edited by ausdude; 02-08-2013 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:50 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,428
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Sorry I meant "all steel" in the sense of it being "not electronic". Kind of like how in M-B land they refer to non-Airmatic suspensions as "Steel Suspensions".

I don't know if it's literally "all steel".
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:31 PM
ausdude's Avatar
ausdude ausdude is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,048
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i M-Sport
My MB was non air suspension. It was hydraulic suspension, had a tamdom pump that ran both the steering and suspension and was adjustable. It was a CL600. They also have some cars, like the black additions that are coil over spring, is this what you are referring to?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:51 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
So is this weight saving or weight adding?


5 series needs to get below 2 tons again. I think BMW realizes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:52 PM
cordoor's Avatar
cordoor cordoor is online now
cor door sedan
Location: Utah
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 830
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Time for them to bite the bullet and go to an all aluminum frame. Land Rover did this with the new Range Rover and it cut something like 800 pounds off its weight.

Why fiddle with minor little picky weight savings when you can get a huge weight savings in one fell swoop?

(I don't want to here "cost". Hehe)
__________________
2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:35 PM
getz's Avatar
getz getz is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: in a van down by the river
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,635
Mein Auto: 997TT/335xi/R500
I must admit to being a big fan of the DDC. If I am cruising on the highway and want to relax I will on occasion put it in "Buick" mode and float cloud like down the road.
__________________


Current: 2012 M-Sport 550i X-drive Dinan Stage 2, 1973 911 with 930 Motor (340 hp 2200 lbs).

Gone but not forgotten: 2007 911 Turbo, 2005 911 Carrera S, 07 BMW M Coupe, 07 335 XI, 05 Mercedes R500
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:27 AM
demas's Avatar
demas demas is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tokyo
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,070
Mein Auto: F10 550i M-Sport
I've also been looking for good comparisons between the traditional M-Sport suspension vs. active drive.

In previous years circa E36/38/39/46 you had the M-Sport package option which added in aero parts and the fabulously tuned M-sport springs and dampers usually dropping the ride about 10mm with in some cases thicker anti-sways.

In the market here, you can get this with the 535 and below but not available with the 550 which includes Active drive as part of that models base cost.

I don't need the electronics or comfort mode and the 10mm drop would have been a nice welcome.

On the other hand, the active drive is just that - active. It will dynamically adjust with driving conditions so would likely be superior as opposed to a 'linear' performing suspension.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:13 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,428
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by demas View Post
I've also been looking for good comparisons between the traditional M-Sport suspension vs. active drive.

In previous years circa E36/38/39/46 you had the M-Sport package option which added in aero parts and the fabulously tuned M-sport springs and dampers usually dropping the ride about 10mm with in some cases thicker anti-sways.

In the market here, you can get this with the 535 and below but not available with the 550 which includes Active drive as part of that models base cost.

I don't need the electronics or comfort mode and the 10mm drop would have been a nice welcome.

On the other hand, the active drive is just that - active. It will dynamically adjust with driving conditions so would likely be superior as opposed to a 'linear' performing suspension.
Totally, this is what I want to know. Non adaptive M Sport suspension (apparently new to 2013 F10's from what I understand) VS the Active Drive suspension that's more tech-operated on the 2011 and 2012 F10's.

I'd love to see handling tests, or at least know people's impressions regarding differences between the two.

I also am a big advocate for a "steel suspension" (figuratively speaking, i.e "non adaptive/tech"), mostly due to durability and longevity (Leasing aside). I really like how dynamic the M Suspension on my 2013 is and I *feel* like it's a bit tighter/stiffer than the adaptive suspension on the 2012 I drove previously, but not sure. At the same time, perhaps it's more jarring over bumps? Don't have enough seat time in a 2011/2012 to know the comparison on that.

Oh, and you bring up another interesting Q: Are the 2013 M Sports in fact lower than the 2012 M Sports, which didn't have any suspension difference from the non M Sports (as the 2013 M Sports do apparently get their own dedicated suspension)? I also feel like my 2013 is lower than lots of F10 M Sports I was looking at a year ago, which *seemed* to have more wheel gap, but again, not sure if that's in my head.

Last edited by K-A; 02-09-2013 at 02:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:19 AM
oneon3putts oneon3putts is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 131
Mein Auto: 2013 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Oh, and you bring up another interesting Q: Are the 2013 M Sports in fact lower than the 2012 M Sports, which didn't have any suspension difference from the non M Sports (as the 2013 M Sports do apparently get their own dedicated suspension)?
Just posted about this in another thread. But in short, my 13 535 M Sport no ARS nor DDC definitely have less wheel gap (front and rear) compared to a 12 535 M Sport (don't know if he has ARS or DDC).

From a performance perspective, I don't know how the 13 F10 with M Sport compares with a 12 F10 with M Sport. But the 13 F10 still feels looser compared to my 10 E60 550 with M Sport. Definitely a softer riding car compared to my E60. More body roll and less harsher ride. However, one thing I will say, the new integral active steering is much better than the active steering on my E60. Exiting out of the corner, even though the E60 was tight, but I was fighting a little bit of understeer. With my F10, the rear seem to whip around as I exit out of the corner even though I feel more body roll with the car...IMO, it is definitely attributed to the turning of the rear wheels with the new IAS.
__________________

2013 535i ED: 12/7/12
2010 550i ED: 2/15/10 Retired
2008 550i Retired
2006 530i Retired

Last edited by oneon3putts; 02-09-2013 at 02:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:32 AM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,428
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneon3putts View Post
Just posted about this in another thread. But in short, my 13 535 M Sport no ARS nor DDC definitely have less wheel gap (front and rear) compared to a 12 535 M Sport (don't know if he has ARS or DDC).
Just responded to that post! Thanks for answering that, lol.

I KNEW the 2013 M Sports sat lower than the previous F10's with adaptive suspensions (and current 2013's that still come with them).

I used to think F10's sat pretty high, even M Sports, until I saw how low my 2013 M Sport sat, which got me thinking that it must have to do with the non-adaptive, new "M Sport" suspension we get.

Happy to have that confirmed.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:38 AM
dunderhi's Avatar
dunderhi dunderhi is online now
0-60 in 4 secs or less!
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,709
Mein Auto: '13 X5M, 650xi
I'm a big fan of the adaptive suspension. It's a little soft on the F10 (stiffer on the F13), but I adjust the suspension at least a dozen times each day. I like the firm connected feel on smooth rodes, but I also like the ability to quickly soften the suspension when I see bridge seams or potholes ahead. My 335d has an all steel suspension and all I can do is brace for impact when I hit a bridge seam.
__________________


2013 X5M ........ 2013 650xi ...... 2011 550xi (ret) 2011 335d (ret)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:48 AM
oneon3putts oneon3putts is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 131
Mein Auto: 2013 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Happy to have that confirmed.
NP, glad to help
__________________

2013 535i ED: 12/7/12
2010 550i ED: 2/15/10 Retired
2008 550i Retired
2006 530i Retired
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:24 AM
elitex elitex is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 115
Mein Auto: 2013 M3, 2013 M5
I drove the 13 msport w/o ddc back to back with my 12 with ddc.

Yes the 13 without DDC sits lower and yes it feels more composed. It's not like the old E60 but it's better than DDC. As soon as I pulled out of the lot with the 13 550 msport (no ddc), I asked my dealer if something had changed between my car and this one, at the time I didn't realize that I was driving a car without DDC.

It was kind of a blind test for me I guess. I was thinking that they had changed the software on the DDC.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Bimmer App

Last edited by elitex; 02-09-2013 at 06:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:31 AM
ausdude's Avatar
ausdude ausdude is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Austin
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,048
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 550i M-Sport
I have a 13 550 M Sport Non DDC and I have no complaints
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:43 AM
Needsdecaf's Avatar
Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
Everything's Bigger in TX
Location: The Woodlands, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,106
Mein Auto: 2007 MDX
I am very tired of adaptive suspension. I have had it in several cars now and feel like it is a giant compromise. It ends up making the spring rates too soft which means the damping is brittle and does not flow with the road in sport, and Buick like in comfort.

When we order our Cayenne, I will forgo PASM as well as the air suspension as I do not plan on doing towing.

IMO, it is a move to gain additional comfort than sportiness.
__________________
2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:24 PM
K-A's Avatar
K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,428
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
Thanks for confirming some of my thoughts on this. Makes me even a little bit more happy to wait until 2013 MY to jump into the F10.

Even coming from MB Land,I find electronic suspensions especially on sportily intended cars somewhat of a compromise. "Steel" suspensions in my experienced can be just as good, way more reliable, and the best part is almost always seem to sit lower.
__________________
'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:07 PM
elitex elitex is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 115
Mein Auto: 2013 M3, 2013 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Thanks for confirming some of my thoughts on this. Makes me even a little bit more happy to wait until 2013 MY to jump into the F10.

Even coming from MB Land,I find electronic suspensions especially on sportily intended cars somewhat of a compromise. "Steel" suspensions in my experienced can be just as good, way more reliable, and the best part is almost always seem to sit lower.
I agree, however I have EDC on my M3 and it's amazing. Comfort mode feels perfect for daily use.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Bimmer App
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms