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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:47 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Buying an 08 535xit - 85k miles - CPO & Warranty - Questions about a noise and fluids

Hi all,

About to purchase a 2008 535xit. Very nicely equipped, 85,000 miles, CPO'd and maintenance till 100k or 16 months from now.

The condition of the car is immaculate - exterior and interior.

I have a few questions I'd really appreciate advice on:

1. Mechanical noise - During my final test drive I noticed a faint noise, similar to a wheel bearing noise - but it seemed to be in the 30-50 mph range, wasn't dependant upon throttle, and seemed to be coming from the transmission/center diff area. It was so faint I struggled to hear it most of the time, but I got the CA to confirm hearing it too.

Any thoughts or guidance on what this is likely to be? I'm not overly concerned as if it develops into something I've got 15k miles to get it addressed for free.

2. This car has followed a BMW maintenance schedule. However, anytime I buy a car like this my intention is to change the fluids to a high quality synthetic. Can anyone tell me:

- Are the trans, center diff, engine oil pan/filter, and rear diff classically DIY friendly? (i.e. a fill hole and drain hole readily accessed)
- Do the trans/center diff share the same fluid?
- Any particular fluid recommendations for the engine, gearbox, and diffs? I'm fine if the recommendation is a BMW fluid - I usually do redline otherwise.

Thanks all!

Joe
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:59 PM
1naztyx5 1naztyx5 is offline
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How much are you getting this car for? Mileage is a bit high no?
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:54 PM
jim165 jim165 is offline
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Last edited by jim165; 01-19-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:17 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1naztyx5 View Post
How much are you getting this car for? Mileage is a bit high no?
I'm getting the car for a price I deem reasonable given it's condition, packages/equipment, and warranty/maintenance care.

The mileage is high....compared to what? A NYC driven car with 5k brutal miles a year?
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  #5  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:54 AM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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I have an 09 x3 with 109k super commuter miles. 85k isn't bad.

Here's a few things as you should have basically the same driveline as I do with the exception of the motor (I have a na n52 you have a turbo n55).

1) transfer case uses bmw fluid about $50 a liter and no other options. Most likely the sound you hear is the transfer case or rear differential. Easy DIY.

2) differentials use 75w90 gear oil. I prefer redline but I believe factory fill is castrol xo. Rear has a combined drain and fill plug so you need a pump to extract all of it (holds a little under a quart). Front diff has a drain and fill plug, but you have to remove engine splash guard.

3) auto transmission uses dex6. I change my fluid every 25k miles and the tranny still shifts like butter. No dipstick so you have to do all service under the car...overall not to bad.

4) the 535 will have suffered the lovely HPFP issues..but I am assuming a prior owner that was nice commuter like myself got that fixed. Either way the replacement part is warrantied to 120k miles but find out when it was last done or your first experience might be a cel with reduced engine power.

5) 85k miles isn't high in my opinion if you follow proper maintenance. It's just now broken in. Google mike miller maintenance and he will send you what I follow. I expect 300k out of my 09 and plan on getting it.

Last edited by x3brian; 01-20-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:07 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x3brian View Post
I have an 09 x3 with 109k super commuter miles. 85k isn't bad.

Here's a few things as you should have basically have the same driveline as I do with the exception of the motor (I have a na n52 you have a turbo n55).

1) transfer case uses bmw fluid about $50 a liter and no other options. Most likely the sound you hear is the transfer case or rear differential. Easy DIY.

2) differentials use 75w90 gear oil. I prefer redline but I believe factory fill is castrol xo. Rear has a combined drain and fill plug so you need a pump to extract all of it (holds a little under a quart). Front diff has a drain and fill plug, but you have to remove engine splash guard.

3) auto transmission uses dex6. I change my fluid every 25k miles and the tranny still shifts like butter. No dipstick so you have to do all service under the car...overall not to bad.

4) the 535 will have suffered the lovely HPFP issues..but I am assuming a prior owner that was nice commuter like myself got that fixed. Either way the replacement part is warrantied to 120k miles but find out when it was last done or your first experience might be a cel with reduced engine power.

5) 85k miles isn't high in my opinion if you follow proper maintenance. It's just now broken in. Google mike miller maintenance and he will send you what I follow. I expect 300k out of my 09 and plan on getting it.
Howdy and thanks for the very fine response. I'm a big "over maintainer" of the lubricated parts and am very familiar with Mike's recommendations. Your post is exactly what I needed to get me started in the coming week or so.

Sounds like 1 quart of BMW transfer case fluid, 2 quarts of redline 75w90, and an amount of trans fluid I'll figure out once I have the manual in my hand.

Sounds like maybe 2-3 hours of fun under the car with a hand pump.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:09 AM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Pretty much and I am pretty sure it is 8-9 qts of dex 6. I would also recommend changing the coolant. That should be 10 qts.

Just double check your tranny build. I am 95% sure we both have the same GM 6L45E tranny but I am not sure if your car got sourced with a zf unit. If that's the case dex 6 would not work...most likely Pentosin atf1.

Also I would change out the ps fluid. That uses Pentosin chf11s.

Last edited by x3brian; 01-20-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:13 AM
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z0lt3c z0lt3c is offline
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Read up on the transmission "lifetime fill" and fluid debate and see which side of the fence you believe.... I can tell you that the 08s are known to leak from the sleeve inside the transmission, this repair is covered by CPO and results in a transmission fluid service since the pan/filter needs to be dropped and fluid partially drained. If your vehicle hasn't had the sleeve replaced, I almost guarantee it will need it, bring it into the dealer and ask to check for leaks. If it has been replaced, then you've already had a transmission service when that repair was performed. I had mine done around 80K miles and don't plan to touch the trans fluid for another 80K. I used Mobile 1 75W90 in the diffs, just because it's easy to source locally, but redline is good stuff too. I also use Mobile 1 0W40 for engine oil, I would also suggest checking for engine oil leaks, in particular the gaskets around the oil filter canister are known to leak (also covered by CPO). At your mileage I would also consider pro-actively replacing your front thrust bushings, mine were cracked at 80K miles. If you are stilling running a first revision negative battery cable, the IBS sensor in that cable is also known to fail resulting in electrical gremlins... Good luck.
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Last edited by z0lt3c; 01-20-2013 at 09:11 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-20-2013, 08:15 AM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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Actually...the post above brings up a good point.

My 09 x3 manual clearly states 100k mile fluid change for auto and they did it for me under the 100k mile maint plan you have. Check the manual...you might want to wait.
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  #10  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:10 AM
1naztyx5 1naztyx5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
I'm getting the car for a price I deem reasonable given it's condition, packages/equipment, and warranty/maintenance care.

The mileage is high....compared to what? A NYC driven car with 5k brutal miles a year?
U most be getting a good deal I guess , cause there is sure enough 08's sitting in lots right now with way lower miles that this....GL
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  #11  
Old 01-20-2013, 12:24 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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It's not that it's a great deal, it's that the condition is spectacular and it has every option but night vision and HUD. The combination was hard to find
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:10 PM
BounceNY BounceNY is offline
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He's getting a Touring (wagon) model which is hard to find.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2013, 03:39 PM
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PolkNole PolkNole is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
It's not that it's a great deal, it's that the condition is spectacular and it has every option but night vision and HUD. The combination was hard to find
You're buying something close to my car with similar mileage so I'm curious too how much you're willing to pay...
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2013, 07:05 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Telling you guys what I paid is kinda pointless because it was part of a negotiaton with a trade-in. I negotiated a very aggressive deal on my trade-in and paid a bit more for the car. I also got some nice throw-ins worth a few hundred. You can't compare that sort of negotiation to a private sale of your car.

Low to mid 20's is what I would pay for a private/dealer/BMW dealer version of my car with a CPO warranty. A bit more for the maintenance package.

It's monaco blue on dakota gray interior. Every option I'm aware of except HUD and night vision. The leather throughout the entire car looks brand new. The carpets look brand new. The trim and materials on the dash, doors, seat backs, and the cargo area look brand new. The exterior paint has no scuffs, dings, dents. The front end is almost absent of rock chips. The chrome trim, headlights, shadowline trim, etc. - all look brand new.

It's shod in brand new continental contiextreme DWS - the perfect tire for my needs and vastly preferable for me to run-flats or summer tires, which would have required I spent a bit extra.

The most significant wear item on the car was the one tailpipe that has a bit of permanent discoloration on the bottom. That's it.

Lastly, it was just a few miles from me whereas anything else comparable was anywhere from 100-1500 miles away.

For this, I was willing to pay $22,500-$24,000.

Hope that helps
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:12 PM
polski7 polski7 is offline
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Were the turbos replaced? 85k is a lot for the original turbos that are plagued with wastegate problems. BMW increased the turbo warranty to 8 yrs or 82k miles, but with your mileage it's already expired.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:54 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Did you read that I'm under CPO for another 16 months? They are the original turbos.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polski7 View Post
Were the turbos replaced? 85k is a lot for the original turbos that are plagued with wastegate problems. BMW increased the turbo warranty to 8 yrs or 82k miles, but with your mileage it's already expired.
I have 85k on mine and drive my car like I stole it. I've also ragged it out hard three times at Sebring. I have had no wastegate or turbo problems.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:03 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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I'm not worried about the turbos. I've got 16 months for them to need replacing where I can get it for free. If it happens after that, shucks that sucks, I'll pony up. The turbos are probably the only part of this car that actually "concern" me from a monetary standpoint but I went into this car knowing that I can't really service them myself.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:49 AM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
I'm not worried about the turbos. I've got 16 months for them to need replacing where I can get it for free. If it happens after that, shucks that sucks, I'll pony up. The turbos are probably the only part of this car that actually "concern" me from a monetary standpoint but I went into this car knowing that I can't really service them myself.
The above suggestion above is great but for trans, don't try one better stick with ZF fluid :
http://www.thectsc.com/

remember the torque converter will hold about 4-quart after you drain 5quart in the pan, using non-ZF means you are mixing fluid at the end.

BTW, our is 6-sp thus uses lifeguard-6; I'd order the kit if I were you
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:27 PM
greenX3 greenX3 is offline
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You've got some great tires. I have those exact same tires on my wagon and I love 'em. Unfortunately (or actually FORTUNATELY), we haven't had but about an inch of snow on the roads in the two years I've had them. But they're fantastic in wet weather.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:50 PM
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Joe,

With that mileage I suggest you replace the oil pan and mechatronic valve sleeve. ECS Tuning sells a ZF pan for around $115, sleeve for around $15, and the oil for $22 a quart I believe. You need around 6 quarts, rest is in the torque converter and shouldn't be an issue as BMW deems the oil to last the life of the car. Reason to do the valve sleeve is that around this stage it starts leaking and will throw the transmission into Park to protect itself. Very common on this tranny at this stage. The replacement seals are an improved design, so fix it once and you should be done.
I have uploaded documentation here numerous times, but if you need it and can't find PM me w email.

I had a shop do both of mine, I have a wagon and a sedan from 2008. Definiely a job for the lift, and some of the bolts on the tranny pan had to be replced. They are magnesium and expensive. I think $4 a piece.

It's a fantastic car, even more so with a JB4 tune! Adds over 100 ft-lbs torque which makes it run effortlessly no matter what the load it's hauling. Gas mileage is stellar too.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:31 PM
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z0lt3c z0lt3c is offline
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Originally Posted by Oceans10 View Post
With that mileage I suggest you replace the oil pan and mechatronic valve sleeve. ECS Tuning sells a ZF pan for around $115, sleeve for around $15, and the oil for $22 a quart I believe.
Why would he spend a $1 on this when it's all covered by CPO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFromPA
I'm not worried about the turbos. I've got 16 months for them to need replacing where I can get it for free
It would technically cost you $50 since the CPO has a deductible.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:37 PM
1naztyx5 1naztyx5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0lt3c View Post
Why would he spend a $1 on this when it's all covered by CPO?



It would technically cost you $50 since the CPO has a deductible.
But in order for CPO to cover it has to be bad already or no? I was not aware CPO would cover as preventive maintenance.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:07 AM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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I think his recommendation was a fair one given I was asking about fluid replacement.

I picked up the car yesterday and am learning about it. iDrive is gonna take some time. So far the only thing "wrong" is that my wife's iPhone 4s, paired to the bluetooth, sounded very static-y when she called me on the drive home. Just a ton of background noise.

I got a printout of the service this car has had done so I can begin mapping out my enhanced maintenance plan. For some reason, my CA had to print out a totally illegible service history that shows the mileage and bmw CODES for what was done and then short descriptions like "Trans" or "Front Axle" - and that's it! Ugh.

So I've got a date with my service department to figure out if the 'TRANS' code at 76k miles represents an actual transmission servicing of any sort, what was replaced, and if the fluid was done at the same time.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:59 AM
HPIA4v2 HPIA4v2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0lt3c View Post
Why would he spend a $1 on this when it's all covered by CPO?



It would technically cost you $50 since the CPO has a deductible.
CPO only to 100K, that's only 15k-mile away for Joe.
If he thinks about driving it longer, I wouldn't relying on CPO to fix my tranny when it fails later. I have not heard tranny busted on 6HPxx under 100kmile anyway. Many 5HPxx did.

Joe,
BMW never flush trans fluid cause BMW deems it lifetime. Dealer put my old fluid back when fixing my mechatronic sleeve under waranty (SA told me the to replace it with new fluid would cost me $700!, so I said no).

Right away I flushed mine DIY, since I am worried for any contaminant in the process (where does tech pour out that old fluid into???, I wonder sometime).
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