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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:38 PM
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  #27  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:52 PM
The Swede The Swede is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 View Post
All good what you said, but they do get ripped off for buying anything, compare to US car buyers.
Choices-yes, but maybe these low prices limit our choices?
I think it's mostly because of taxes. Not because BMW charges a higher price here.

In Sweden cars have 25 % VAT. If you subtract the VAT from a new BMW in Sweden you get a price around the American.

Ex a BMW F31 328 with Sport Line, lightning package/xenon, alarm, rails, rain sensor, cold weather package (standard), heated seats (front and back) and PDC costs 43.000 USD before taxes in Sweden.

Last edited by The Swede; 01-23-2013 at 01:57 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:35 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des16 View Post
First, while I respect someone's choice to by an X3, I repeat it is like apples and oranges.
You are missing the point. The "wagon premium" is not about which car handles better. It is about the price gouging that is going on here with Audi and now BMW both asking $3~4,000 more than they did previously, for no good reasons.

In 2010:
The E91 328i wagon was cheaper than the comparable X3 3.0.
The A4 Avant 2.0T quattro was cheaper than the comparable Q5 2.0T.

In 2013
The F31 328i xDrive wagon is priced comparable to X3 35i xDrive, a roughly $3,600 price increase vs. reference point
The A4 allroad is priced comparable to Q5 3.0T, a $4,000 price increase vs. reference point

Content level for both wagon and SUV have gone up so this is an apples to apples comparison.

So to sum it up for you simpletons... in 3 years, the wagon prices (328i/allroad) have gone up from comparable to lower trim level SUV (e.g. Q5 2.0T) to higher trim level SUV (e.g. Q5 3.0T); whereas we didn't see such a similar price increase in other body styles (e.g. 328 sedan/coupe is still cheaper than X3 28i, not priced near X3 35i level, A4/5 is still cheaper than Q5 2.0T, not priced near Q5 3.0T level). The only conclusion we can make here is that this is price gouging - because Audi/BMW know wagon buyers will grit their teeth and pay it. Or maybe we won't... and Audi/BMW will use that as an excuse to not give the wagon to us next time.

Last edited by bzcat; 01-23-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
Tirpitz Tirpitz is offline
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Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
You are missing the point. The "wagon premium" is not about which car handles better. It is about the price gouging that is going on here with Audi and now BMW both asking $4,000 more than they did previously, for no good reasons.
Perhaps the cost increase is a function of the cost of certifying the Touring for sale in the US. The cost of certification is supposed to be in the multi-millions per vehicle/powertrain/transmission. When you divide that cost out over fewer vehicles that drives up the price. Both Audi and BMW figure they are going to sell more SUV types than wagon types. Anyone know how many 3 series Touring of the last generation BMW sold vs. X3's? I do see the occasional wagon her in Southern CA but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the X3 and X5 numbers that parade by.
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:51 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
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Originally Posted by Tirpitz View Post
Perhaps the cost increase is a function of the cost of certifying the Touring for sale in the US. The cost of certification is supposed to be in the multi-millions per vehicle/powertrain/transmission. When you divide that cost out over fewer vehicles that drives up the price. Both Audi and BMW figure they are going to sell more SUV types than wagon types. Anyone know how many 3 series Touring of the last generation BMW sold vs. X3's? I do see the occasional wagon her in Southern CA but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the X3 and X5 numbers that parade by.
Sure, that's a factor. But it didn't stop BMW from selling the 328i (and Audi from selling the A4 Avant) without an artificial high price before.

I don't doubt the fact that wagon is probably a money looser for both Audi and BMW here in the US. But still, the price increase is pretty cynical when you consider that the people buying these cars are actually the most loyal customers to both brands.
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  #31  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:10 PM
Tirpitz Tirpitz is offline
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Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
Sure, that's a factor. But it didn't stop BMW from selling the 328i (and Audi from selling the A4 Avant) without an artificial high price before.

I don't doubt the fact that wagon is probably a money looser for both Audi and BMW here in the US. But still, the price increase is pretty cynical when you consider that the people buying these cars are actually the most loyal customers to both brands.
Perhaps before they didn't price the Touring models correctly and took a big loss on them. I'm remembering reading somewhere that in the first year the last 5 Touring was sold here they sold only 900 of them which is why it didn't come back.

If the most loyal customers only buy models that loose money for the manufacturer why does BMW or Audi want to keep those customers? If they really worried about that then they would be bringing the Touring over in MT because that is what the real BMW fans want. Seriously if they do loose money for the company then then should pull the trigger and not bring them over at all. All they are accomplishing is ticking off the people interested in the Touring and then discovering that they can't sell enough of them in the US market.

At the end of the day all we can do is guess at the reasons and lament the fact that the Touring is priced in a way that makes it unattractive. I wish it was priced so that I'd be tempted to swap my X1 for one in a couple of years.
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  #32  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:21 PM
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Prices aren't very closely related to cost. They're more a function of what people are willing to pay. If you think the price of a particular model is too high, you have an effective way of voting on it.
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  #33  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:33 PM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirpitz View Post
...Anyone know how many 3 series Touring of the last generation BMW sold vs. X3's? ...
I researched this a couple weeks ago: BMW averages around 3,000 3-series wagons a year in the US, about 1/2 the xDrive version (going back to the E46.)
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  #34  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
You are missing the point. The "wagon premium" is not about which car handles better. It is about the price gouging that is going on here with Audi and now BMW both asking $3~4,000 more than they did previously, for no good reasons.

In 2010:
The E91 328i wagon was cheaper than the comparable X3 3.0. The A4 Avant 2.0T quattro was cheaper than the comparable Q5 2.0T.

In 2013
The F31 328i xDrive wagon is priced comparable to X3 35i xDrive, a roughly $3,600 price increase vs. reference point
The A4 allroad is priced comparable to Q5 3.0T, a $4,000 price increase vs. reference point

Content level for both wagon and SUV have gone up so this is an apples to apples comparison.

So to sum it up for you simpletons... in 3 years, the wagon prices (328i/allroad) have gone up from comparable to lower trim level SUV (e.g. Q5 2.0T) to higher trim level SUV (e.g. Q5 3.0T); whereas we didn't see such a similar price increase in other body styles (e.g. 328 sedan/coupe is still cheaper than X3 28i, not priced near X3 35i level, A4/5 is still cheaper than Q5 2.0T, not priced near Q5 3.0T level). The only conclusion we can make here is that this is price gouging - because Audi/BMW know wagon buyers will grit their teeth and pay it. Or maybe we won't... and Audi/BMW will use that as an excuse to not give the wagon to us next time.
These are MSRP(No destination)
2010 RWD wagon had a $2550 premium over sedan, xDrive wagon was $2325 cheaper than highest trim X3.
2010 328i Sedan $32,850
2010 328i xDrive Sedan $34,850
2010 328i Wagon $35,400
2010 328i xDrive Wagon $37,400
2010 X3 xDrive30i $39,725
2013 RWD wagon has a $2600 premium over sedan, xDrive wagon is $2500 cheaper than highest trim X3.
2013 328i Sedan $36,850
2013 328i xDrive Sedan $38,850
2013 X3 xDrive28i $38,850
2013 328i Wagon $39,450 (guessing $2k under xDrive)
2013 328i xDrive Wagon $41,450
2013 X3 xDrive35i $43,950

So compared to the sedan, the wagon has held pricing. Compared to the highest trim X3, it has actually gotten cheaper. I think you are also forgetting that the 2010 X3 xDrive30i used to be the highest trim. When the old bodystyle X3 was first released there was a 2.5i and 3.0i. They got rid of the 2.5i and only kept the higher trim 3.0i which morphed into the xDrive30i by 2010.
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  #35  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:09 PM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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i don tthink its really that overpriced compared to the sedan.

if you look at the spec sheet in the picture, you do get a moonroof standard. the sedan doesnt have a standard moonroof. now i personally would never get a moonroof, but if you were going to get one anyway thats $1000 of the difference
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:28 PM
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  #37  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:12 PM
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None of this wagon pricing would really bother me if it weren't for the fact that elsewhere in bimmerfest, people are complaining about dash rattles in their F30 sedans. I can't stand cars that rattle, especially ones that cost $50k.
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Last edited by Robert A; 01-23-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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  #38  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:53 AM
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To be honest I am more concern with the lack of choice of engines and transmissions than about price. It's always been the case. If they tried to sell E91 with N54 and diesel, the sales numbers would be different. Now they take away the MT as well.
Deals and factory incentives will be there, it is not a problelm...
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  #39  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:14 PM
Blake P Blake P is offline
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Although it's always welcoming to see new F31 info, I'm not sure how accurate it is. That option pricing appears to be a copy/paste from the F30 for the most part, which is inconsistent with previous information released saying the F31 would have more standard equipment than the F30. Even this page on the BMW USA site indicates adaptive xenon headlights and LED tails are standard: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...FVCVDetailId=2
I guess we'll find out soon enough...
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  #40  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:07 PM
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That price cannot be right. I just looked at what we paid for an 2007 ED 328i Wagon that had a few options: $33,250 before tax. ~$10K more and two less cylinders... that does not sound correct
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  #41  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:30 PM
Eric Genname Eric Genname is offline
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As a goodwill gesture, if BMW gives me one I promise to display it prominently in my driveway.
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:10 PM
ebs0712 ebs0712 is offline
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As they say the devil is in the details. The "wagon premium" is actually around $1,700 which is very reasonable ........
Details: The $42,345 includes destination of $895 so the true MSRP is $41,450 but the wagon includes the panoramic sunroof in the base price. The price difference for the Premium Package (ZPP) on the wagon is $900 less than the same package on the sedan which includes the sunroof. So $41,450 - 38,850 - 900 = $1,700! Almost all of the other option packages are the same price for the wagon and the sedan.
What does everyone think about a $1,700 "wagon premium"?
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2013, 02:57 PM
Eric Genname Eric Genname is offline
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BMW Canada has specs on their Touring model now.
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2013, 04:41 PM
martinBoston martinBoston is offline
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The $1,700 "wagon premium" is worth it in my opinion, added cargo and uniqueness. Plus, the sunroof is much bigger as compared to the F30.

That car is really growing on me. I can't wait to try one.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2013, 04:48 PM
Robert A Robert A is online now
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Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Genname View Post
BMW Canada has specs on their Touring model now.
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2013, 04:56 PM
Eric Genname Eric Genname is offline
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There are two PDFs in the thread on this site:

3 Series All-New 3 Series Touring - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1359388134

Order guide - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1359388134

For Canada, at least, it does show the sunroof as standard. It also bundles the adaptive M suspension in an M Performance Package:

ZPF M Performance Package
2NH M Sport brake
2PF 19" M wheel, perf. RFT tire (style 403M)
2VF Adaptive M Suspension
840 High speed maximum with perf. tires

This is different than for the US sedan, which has a Dynamic Handling Package, correct?

It looked to me that the Canadian Build Your Own tool still shows the previous model specs, but I just took a quick look. Someone more knowledgeable than I needs to interpret all this for us.

It's listed as a 2014 model.

Last edited by tim330i; 01-28-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 PM
adgrant adgrant is offline
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Originally Posted by des16 View Post
The discussion above has been about the price premium relative to X3 or SUV. That is not the relevant comparison, since it's like comparing apples and oranges. The relevant question is what is the price premium over the sedan, which has a price of 38,850. Indeed, The 3,500 for a wagon relative to the sedan seems very high to me. Additionally, if you compare the price of the wagon with the sedan in Europe, we are paying a much higher premium in the US. But, I guess they are marketing the niche product to fools like me who will pay the price premium.
The significant price premium relative to the X1 was also pointed out and the X1 is basically an E91 station wagon with a somewhat higher ride height and some ugly plastic bits. OTOH its available with a straight six and decent steering.
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  #48  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:42 AM
Tirpitz Tirpitz is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I researched this a couple weeks ago: BMW averages around 3,000 3-series wagons a year in the US, about 1/2 the xDrive version (going back to the E46.)
Interesting because despite only having it on sale for roughly 6 months BMW moved just under 9,000 X1's in the USA. That would imply the X1 will outsell the Touring 6-1.
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  #49  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:02 AM
adgrant adgrant is offline
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Originally Posted by Tirpitz View Post
Interesting because despite only having it on sale for roughly 6 months BMW moved just under 9,000 X1's in the USA. That would imply the X1 will outsell the Touring 6-1.
Probably by even more given the price difference.
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:41 AM
sjhwilkes sjhwilkes is offline
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I agree the option pricing is wrong. BMW have tended to option the wagon higher by default, justifying the higher starting price, but then lowering some of the options packages. I'd be stunned if Xenon's, sunroof etc. aren't standard as before.
Still sad about all the 'line' business and the lack of M/T. A used E91 or even E61 still seems like my best option much as I'd love to do an ED again, I may be able to find a M/T and the savings will be more than enough for a fancy European vacation.
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