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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-21-2013, 07:42 PM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Mein Auto: 2001 530
Automatic Transmission Warning Light

[Edit: I took out the INPA detail so it's easier to read]

I've got the "Automatic Transmission" warning light on. It's the one with the gear and exclamation mark (or "TRANS.FAILSAFE PROG" on dashboards with the MID).

I rarely start a new thread but after searching for hours, most thread responses were "What were the codes?", "We need the codes to help." but since no one followed up by listing any codes, there were no definitive solutions posted.

Here were my symptoms. The gear and exclamation mark warning light was lit. The Service Engine Soon light was also lit. The car takes longer than normal to start and the initial idle can be a little rough. There seems to be less torque on initial acceleration but the automatic transmission seems to shift through all gears. The shifts were very harsh (both upshifts and downshifts). The steptronic mode worked allowing manual shifts from 1st to 5th gear (also harsh shifts). Others have called this safe mode or limp mode.

After reading the module error codes (posted below) I cleared them from memory and everything seems to be working properly again with no warning lights. I'm sure they'll be back. Hopefully, someone can make some sense out of these error codes to see if there's anything that points to a specific part. I know some won't be relevant since they could have been stored from unrelated issues. The next time the error occurs I should have a cleaner set of codes (for example, I replaced a wheel speed sensor 2 weeks ago but I didn't clear the memory after installing it).

Here are the Carsoft and INPA codes. I added some of my own notes next to the codes.
Carsoft:
Single diagnosis DME / DDE - Status: ERROR !
74 A/C-compressor relay (note: A/C is working fine)
238 Misfire : cylinder 1 (note: I've seen this one before over the years)
168 Pedal position sensor potentiometer supply channel 1
228 Mixture Deviation : bank 2 (Have had these before too)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Single diagnosis EGS - Status: ERROR !
149 CAN ABS/DSC wheel speeds (Note: remnant from before I replaced a wheel speed sensor)
150 CAN-BUS : time-out (signal not sent during initialization)
131 CAN - Instrument Cluster
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Single diagnosis Inst. Cluster - Status: ERROR !
8D EGS Data lead disturbed (Note: Interesting Where is the EGS located?)
************************************************** *******************
INPA:
ECU: MS430DS0
8 errors in error memory !
---------------------------------------------------------------------
74 Relay Air conditioning compressor
238 burning fail Cylinder 1
168 Thermostat jammed open
228 lambda contol tolerance Bank 2
227 lambda contol tolerance Bank 1
83 KW Error
244 segment time measuring faulty
188 Lambda probe heating upstrem sensor 1
===================================
ECU: GS20
RESULT: 3 errors in error memory !
--------------------------------------------------------
149 CAN Wheel speeds
150 CAN Engine speed
131 CAN-Time-Out Cluster

Last edited by geobrick; 01-22-2013 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Took out the INPA detail
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:40 AM
EthirtyMine EthirtyMine is offline
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Location: Atlanta, GA
 
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Posts: 108
Mein Auto: 2000 528iT
On the EGS, I got the 150 error when my ecu stopped getting a reading from the crankshaft position sensor. In the context I was dealing with, my understanding is that the 150 error was a result of EGS not receiving the info it requires from the ECU. This would seems to go along with the "Data Lead Disturbed" message you got.

I would start by checking the continuity of the connections between the ECU and the EGS. If you're not already familiar with it, here's the WDS, wiring diagram software (though it may stand for something else auf Deutsche): http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/release/en/

The EGS is in a plastic compartment along with the ECU, underneath the passenger side micro-filter:

Another thing: have you jump started it, or another car off of your car, recently? I fried an EGS by jump starting once. The failure was initially intermittent but grew steadily in frequency until I was getting limp mode all the time. This took about three months of normal driving. Luckily for cars with the MS42 engine management and GS20 EGS, you can directly swap the EGS from one car to another, and a used one was $60. I do not know if that is the case for you.

Hope this helps!
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  #3  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:23 AM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Thanks for that information. I'll take a look.
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  #4  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:19 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
You've got so many codes listed it is hard to figure out where to start the troublshooting. Try clearing your codes and see what comes back.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2013, 10:11 AM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
You've got so many codes listed it is hard to figure out where to start the troublshooting. Try clearing your codes and see what comes back.
Thanks, That's my plan. I cleared them yesterday and everything is good now but if/when it comes back, I'll post the cleaned up list. I was hoping there may have been something obvious in there that someone would catch.
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  #6  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:54 PM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 530
I got the first Service Engine Soon light since resetting the codes. There was no Automatic Transmission warning light and the transmission is still working fine.

Only one code was set; 168 "Thermostat jammed open". I noticed the temperature has been reading a bit lower than normal so I ordered a new thermostat.

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the Automatic Transmission going into emergency mode so I'll keep monitoring things.

In the list of codes provided in my post above, the INPA and Carsoft codes and descriptions all match except for code 168. INPA says "Thermostat jammed open" and carsoft says "Pedal position sensor potentiometer supply channel 1". I believe INPA.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:03 AM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 530
Here's an update

After about a month of everything running great, the car returned to limp mode a couple of days ago.

Before I go into the detail about the current issue, I want to say something good about the DISA repair kit created by Gary at German Auto Solutions. This kit (maybe the o-ring alone) made an amazing difference in the power the car has. It seemed to solve the 227 and 228, lambda contol tolerance Banks 1 and 2 codes I was getting regularly over the last several years. They were always there and now they're not. I'll post the details of that on another thread.

Back to the transmission "limp mode" and warning light.
Here are the latest codes from INPA:
ECU GS20 (EGS)
150 CAN Engine Speed
131 CAN-Time-Out Cluster

ECU: MS430DS0
83 KW Error
244 segment time measuring faulty
(Notice no more 227 and 228 codes - I know it's unrelated to the transmission but solving them was a big deal for me).

I also had an IKE code 141 "ATS Signal: telegram error or no telegram" but I'm pretty sure that was a remnant from a turn signal bulb problem about a week ago that has been corrected.

The current status is that clearing the codes has the car working normally again. I suspect there's an intermittent problem with the crankshaft speed sensor or circuit. I'll look into that but if anyone has any advice, let me know.
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  #8  
Old 03-20-2013, 03:37 PM
Blck98Z3 Blck98Z3 is offline
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Mein Auto: 98 Z3 2.8
I experienced EXACTLY the same symptoms on my 2000 528i with 187K this week. Took it to my mechanic and he pulled almost all of the same codes in your latest post: 150,151,244, and 83.

He said the problem was a bad Crank Shaft Positioning Sensor, Part #12141709616. He replaced the part with an OEM part, in this case it was Siemens. He said for this part that he has found it to be very important to only use OEM and has had issues with none OEM Crank Shaft Position Sensors.

All symptoms are gone and the car is running great. Paid one hour labor+Diagnostic Fee+$120 for Crank Shaft Sensor. Hope this is helpful. Good luck!

Part #8
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=10&hl=35
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  #9  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:53 PM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 530
Thanks for that. It's good to know I'm on the right track.

It hasn't happened again since my last post (I reset the codes). So we'll see how long it goes this time. I should buy one and have it ready to go.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2013, 05:43 AM
Blck98Z3 Blck98Z3 is offline
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No problem. Probably a good idea to have one on hand. My mechanic mentioned that the usually start acting up intermittently, but when they go the car won't run at all.
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  #11  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:51 PM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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It happened again about a week ago but I still didn't order the part. I reset the code again and then ordered the part. Limp mode came back the next day. The part arrived a few days later.

It took less than an hour to replace (a little hard to reach but I replaced it from the top of the car (never had to crawl underneath). So far it's been working well for about a week.

It is hard to stay ahead of the failing parts and sensors as these E39s age but with the help on this forum, the car should continue running well for several more years. It's still the best car I've ever owned.
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2013, 05:02 AM
steve60 steve60 is offline
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Location: Orange Park Fl.
 
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Mein Auto: 525i
Same thing happend to me. Transmission went into "limp" mode and shifted harsh and engine tool longer to start. I replaced the crankshaft sensor 3 times with aftermarket ones. I am not sure of the brand of the first two, but the last one was a Beck/Arnley. I gave up thinking there is no way that three of them could be bad. The BMW mechanic that I took it to put it on his computer and said it is a bad Crankshaft sensor and put a used one he had on it and it now runs and shifts great. I guess when they say you need gunuine BMW sensors, they are not joking. I wish I had some recourse to get paid labor for the fix. I would have fixed it myself if they didn't sell bad parts. Live and learn!
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:42 AM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
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Mein Auto: 2001 530
You can buy many BMW OEM parts from sources other than a BMW dealer. There are several threads about the best places to buy from (including site sponsors). This part, for my 2001 E39, was available from VDO-Siemens (PN:12141709616). They are the OEM for BMW on this part. It was available from places like Autohauz of AZ and Pelican Parts online. If you need actual BMW branded parts, there are dealers that offer discounted parts over the web. One very good site is run by Tisher BMW called getbmwparts.com. I'm sure someone else (bluebee) will post the link to where all these sources are listed with the sites sponsors highlighted (I buy from them when I can).
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:32 AM
RPW44 RPW44 is offline
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Location: Portland
 
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Mein Auto: 5/2000 BMW 540i M-Sport
Oh great. Can't wait for this :/

I had a bank 1 CPS high code, ordered an aftermarket CPS last week. Should be here in 2 days... I did all of this before seeing this thread :/

Can't wait for the new cheap one to fail! My car has 2 CPS' and I'm about to order a genuine to have on hand.

Thanks guys for sharing and keep the good info coming!
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:03 PM
energizedmortal's Avatar
energizedmortal energizedmortal is offline
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Location: Manhattan, New York
 
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Mein Auto: 2003 530i
Quick link to DIY for crankshaft position sensor incase someone needs it.


http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/686217

Last edited by energizedmortal; 05-20-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2013, 02:43 PM
8530new 8530new is offline
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Location: alabama
 
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Mein Auto: 1998 528i
ok,sooo what did you do to fix this,mine is doin the exact same thing and replaced the transmission,ans from what i gather at the shop its kinda doin the same thing it was
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2013, 02:45 PM
8530new 8530new is offline
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Location: alabama
 
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Mein Auto: 1998 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by geobrick View Post
[Edit: I took out the INPA detail so it's easier to read]

I've got the "Automatic Transmission" warning light on. It's the one with the gear and exclamation mark (or "TRANS.FAILSAFE PROG" on dashboards with the MID).

I rarely start a new thread but after searching for hours, most thread responses were "What were the codes?", "We need the codes to help." but since no one followed up by listing any codes, there were no definitive solutions posted.

Here were my symptoms. The gear and exclamation mark warning light was lit. The Service Engine Soon light was also lit. The car takes longer than normal to start and the initial idle can be a little rough. There seems to be less torque on initial acceleration but the automatic transmission seems to shift through all gears. The shifts were very harsh (both upshifts and downshifts). The steptronic mode worked allowing manual shifts from 1st to 5th gear (also harsh shifts). Others have called this safe mode or limp mode.

After reading the module error codes (posted below) I cleared them from memory and everything seems to be working properly again with no warning lights. I'm sure they'll be back. Hopefully, someone can make some sense out of these error codes to see if there's anything that points to a specific part. I know some won't be relevant since they could have been stored from unrelated issues. The next time the error occurs I should have a cleaner set of codes (for example, I replaced a wheel speed sensor 2 weeks ago but I didn't clear the memory after installing it).

Here are the Carsoft and INPA codes. I added some of my own notes next to the codes.
Carsoft:
Single diagnosis DME / DDE - Status: ERROR !
74 A/C-compressor relay (note: A/C is working fine)
238 Misfire : cylinder 1 (note: I've seen this one before over the years)
168 Pedal position sensor potentiometer supply channel 1
228 Mixture Deviation : bank 2 (Have had these before too)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Single diagnosis EGS - Status: ERROR !
149 CAN ABS/DSC wheel speeds (Note: remnant from before I replaced a wheel speed sensor)
150 CAN-BUS : time-out (signal not sent during initialization)
131 CAN - Instrument Cluster
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Single diagnosis Inst. Cluster - Status: ERROR !
8D EGS Data lead disturbed (Note: Interesting Where is the EGS located?)
************************************************** *******************
INPA:
ECU: MS430DS0
8 errors in error memory !
---------------------------------------------------------------------
74 Relay Air conditioning compressor
238 burning fail Cylinder 1
168 Thermostat jammed open
228 lambda contol tolerance Bank 2
227 lambda contol tolerance Bank 1
83 KW Error
244 segment time measuring faulty
188 Lambda probe heating upstrem sensor 1
===================================
ECU: GS20
RESULT: 3 errors in error memory !
--------------------------------------------------------
149 CAN Wheel speeds
150 CAN Engine speed
131 CAN-Time-Out Cluster
soo at this point what did you do to correct this problem,as mine is in the shop replaced transmission and from what i gather,its doin relatively the same thing
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2013, 04:13 PM
steve60 steve60 is offline
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Location: Orange Park Fl.
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 525i
I took it to the independent BMW shop and they hooked it to their computer. They said it was a bad crank sensor. He had a used one on a spare engine he had there. Put the used one in and everything is good as new. They are right about the aftermarket sensors. I tried 3 of them before I gave up and took it to the shop. One hour labor and $45 for the used part with a one year warrantee. Believe me, I got my money back for the bad new one!
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2013, 06:16 PM
RPW44 RPW44 is offline
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Location: Portland
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 32
Mein Auto: 5/2000 BMW 540i M-Sport
Knock on wood, but the $38 CPS I got off eBay has my car running great. It's only been a month though. So far so good.
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  #20  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:11 PM
geobrick geobrick is offline
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Location: Ventura, California
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Mein Auto: 2001 530
150 CAN Engine speed
131 CAN-Time-Out Cluster
Fixed by replacing the Crankshaft Position Sensor (12141709616) for $78. It took about 40 minutes to install (from the top of the engine). Had to remove a few things to get to it. I haven't seen the problem since I installed it in March.

168 Thermostat jammed open
Fixed with a new thermostat (11537509227).

228 lambda contol tolerance Bank 2
227 lambda contol tolerance Bank 1
Fixed with the German Auto Solutions (G.A.S.) BMW M54 DISA Repair Kit (GA-BM-DISA-REP-KIT-30L-FL)

Last edited by geobrick; 06-19-2013 at 11:20 PM.
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