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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:01 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
If you're looking to regularly kick the rear end out then you definitely want RWD. If you like hard accelleration then AWD is probably your better bet. AWD cars have slightly better 0-60 times than the RWD as there is more grip to get the car going. However given most people's driving skill it's unlikely you'll be able to tell the difference. Where AWD might help with your accelleration is coming out of corners. Given more driving wheels you should be able to pull out of the corner harder without worry of oversteer or the DSC kicking in. While a highly skilled driver can make the RWD car move through the corners faster the vast majority do not possess the necessary skill to do so.

IMO, for the vast majority of drivers, the RWD and AWD cars give the same feel if you don't opt for the sport suspension (not sure if you're aware of not but the AWD car has a rear bias in its power delivery thus making it feel like a RWD car). Thus all the negatives for the AWD (higher weight, higher power train losses, weight distribution, etc) are inconsequential for all but the most experienced drivers.

In the end you can't go wrong with either car. I used to own a RWD BMW and now I buy AWD given I live in an inclement weather area. While the Denver metro area doesn't see large amounts of snow for long periods of time it's nice to have when it does. Or when I make a trip to the mountains. While RWD seems to be fine for your needs it sounds as if you're still leaning towards the AWD model. If that's the case I say go for it...you will not be disappointed.
The only reason I am constantly comparing against X drive is that thats the only car I have test driven.
Planning to test drive rwd today. . Lil snow on the ground..
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  #52  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:16 AM
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kpgray kpgray is offline
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
.........So, does xDrive help with anything like that? When I took test-drives, I think I was behaving from a good boy to a li'l naughty boy... not an out-'n-out bad boy... I had my sister with me, so I was more concerned about her safety... so, I haven't driven any bimmer like the way I drove the camaro the other day..

your thoughts?
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
.......... While RWD seems to be fine for your needs it sounds as if you're still leaning towards the AWD model. If that's the case I say go for it...you will not be disappointed.
You did not specify which Camaro (V6, V8, SS), was it a manual, etc.

The traction control will prevent a moment of the rear fishtailing unless you go into Sport + mode or turn of the DTC. Although I have AWD, I am not sure if Sport + mode disables the front wheels or not (maybe I will try on the next snowfall). I am sure someone else could answer that question. If it did disable the FWD portion of the AWD, then you could have the best of both worlds. Sunny5280 is correct as the AWD 335 is 0.2 tenths faster from 0-60 times due to the initial launch from a stop (4 wheel traction instead of 2 wheels), but after you get rolling a little, the RWD would outperform due to weight (AWD is 155 lbs heavier) and friction (extra drive components for the front drive). The AWD is very good and you would not be disappointed!
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  #53  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:22 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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It was Camaro V6.. arnd 320hp..
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
I recall doing a little fishtailing in a 2013 Camaro of a friend, off from a start... actually I was merging into light traffic coming out of a shopping complex... didn't expect that at all... but when it came, it felt like I was playing NFSMW, and I got the car straightened...
Of course you did; the Camaro has excellent stability control, standard, making good drivers out of average.

GM has perfecting this system for many years and has it down. On its more performance oriented cars, the system allows a bit of nonsense before kicking in depending on the aggressiveness of driver input, speed, etc. Corvettes have had this for many years.

As to the point, xDrive does not allow steering with the throttle. Additionally, it will understeer if given too much power with stability control off.
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
You did not specify which Camaro (V6, V8, SS), was it a manual, etc.

The traction control will prevent a moment of the rear fishtailing unless you go into Sport + mode or turn of the DTC. Although I have AWD, I am not sure if Sport + mode disables the front wheels or not (maybe I will try on the next snowfall). I am sure someone else could answer that question. If it did disable the FWD portion of the AWD, then you could have the best of both worlds. Sunny5280 is correct as the AWD 335 is 0.2 tenths faster from 0-60 times due to the initial launch from a stop (4 wheel traction instead of 2 wheels), but after you get rolling a little, the RWD would outperform due to weight (AWD is 155 lbs heavier) and friction (extra drive components for the front drive). The AWD is very good and you would not be disappointed!
AWD is always AWD...the front wheels are always powered (unless the AWD system transfers all power to the rear wheels for the specific conditions). It does not act like a four wheel drive system where the front wheels can be disengaged.
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2013, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
The only reason I am constantly comparing against X drive is that thats the only car I have test driven.
Planning to test drive rwd today. . Lil snow on the ground..
Let us know what you think. Yours is a difficult case as it's not as clear cut one way or the other.
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  #57  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:10 AM
golovko golovko is offline
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Originally Posted by rgk330i View Post
I live in northern VA, in a climate basically the same as yours. I've been driving my 2001 330i (rwd) with Dunlop Winter Sport M2 tires with absolutely no problem, in fact I think they're overkill around here. While they're noisy, these tires handle surprisingly well. When the F30 arrives, I think I'll just use all-season M+S tires for the winter instead of true winter tires.

Personally I think awd is seriously overrated, but them again I drove a 68 Mustang in Buffalo for years so maybe I'm a little more used to snow than some.

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I just moved to the DC metro area from NC. I have summer tires currently on my 335i so I was looking at one of two options:

1) Replace my summer tires with All Seasons indefinitely and save $$$ on paying for storage to store the 2nd set of tires
2) Get a set of snow tires which will be in storage when not in use.

Which would you recommend for the area climate? I've seen snow/ice more times in my couple of weeks in DC then almost an entire winter in NC.
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  #58  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:00 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by golovko View Post
I just moved to the DC metro area from NC. I have summer tires currently on my 335i so I was looking at one of two options:

1) Replace my summer tires with All Seasons indefinitely and save $$$ on paying for storage to store the 2nd set of tires
2) Get a set of snow tires which will be in storage when not in use.

Which would you recommend for the area climate? I've seen snow/ice more times in my couple of weeks in DC then almost an entire winter in NC.
Snows. Instead of settling for mediocrity you would be getting the best of both worlds.
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  #59  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:06 PM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golovko View Post
I just moved to the DC metro area from NC. I have summer tires currently on my 335i so I was looking at one of two options:

1) Replace my summer tires with All Seasons indefinitely and save $$$ on paying for storage to store the 2nd set of tires
2) Get a set of snow tires which will be in storage when not in use.

Which would you recommend for the area climate? I've seen snow/ice more times in my couple of weeks in DC then almost an entire winter in NC.
Getting the response I am seeing and feeling inclined myself, I would suggest summer tires for all seasons except winters and snow tires for winter == good performance and handling all year around...
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  #60  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:10 PM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
Let us know what you think. Yours is a difficult case as it's not as clear cut one way or the other.
I am feeling more and more convinced every minute that I want to have rwd... will have a set of snows to swap in winters...
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  #61  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:02 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
I am feeling more and more convinced every minute that I want to have rwd... will have a set of snows to swap in winters...
This changes my recommendation. If you feel it's necessary to have a set of winter tires then I would recommend AWD over RWD.
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  #62  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
Getting the response I am seeing and feeling inclined myself, I would suggest summer tires for all seasons except winters and snow tires for winter == good performance and handling all year around...
In Delaware I'd get performance snows (like Dunlop M3) rather than hardcore snows (Blizzak or Nokian Happa). Hardcore snows are very rumbly and don't handle well.
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  #63  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:46 AM
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This changes my recommendation. If you feel it's necessary to have a set of winter tires then I would recommend AWD over RWD.
That makes zero sense.

If he wants RWD, then he should keep a dedicated summer and winter tire. If he wants AWD, he may be able to get away will all seasons, but he would have compromised performance year round versus having dedicated summer and winter tires. I fail to see how wanting dedicated tires would change your recommendation to AWD.
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  #64  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:48 AM
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In Delaware I'd get performance snows (like Dunlop M3) rather than hardcore snows (Blizzak or Nokian Happa). Hardcore snows are very rumbly and don't handle well.
I would agree with this. When shopping for snows, get the more performance leaning tires. They'll give you 85% of the snow handling that hardcore snow tires will give you, but will perform much better on dry and wet winter roads. The rubber stays soft at cold temperatures. The hardcore snows may feel a bit mushy on dry roads in the winter.
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  #65  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:21 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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I would agree with this. When shopping for snows, get the more performance leaning tires. They'll give you 85% of the snow handling that hardcore snow tires will give you, but will perform much better on dry and wet winter roads. The rubber stays soft at cold temperatures. The hardcore snows may feel a bit mushy on dry roads in the winter.
Agree..
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  #66  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:17 AM
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3284me 3284me is offline
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Originally Posted by KLC View Post
That makes zero sense.

If he wants RWD, then he should keep a dedicated summer and winter tire. If he wants AWD, he may be able to get away will all seasons, but he would have compromised performance year round versus having dedicated summer and winter tires. I fail to see how wanting dedicated tires would change your recommendation to AWD.
Maybe because in real world driving no one can feel the difference between all seasons and summer performance tires so its easier to get AWD and forget about it
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  #67  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:13 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Maybe because in real world driving no one can feel the difference between all seasons and summer performance tires so its easier to get AWD and forget about it
This pretty much sums it up.
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  #68  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:21 AM
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This pretty much sums it up.
If you don't notice the difference then more power to you.
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  #69  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:55 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Originally Posted by KLC View Post
That makes zero sense.

If he wants RWD, then he should keep a dedicated summer and winter tire. If he wants AWD, he may be able to get away will all seasons, but he would have compromised performance year round versus having dedicated summer and winter tires. I fail to see how wanting dedicated tires would change your recommendation to AWD.
The reason I initially recommended RWD was the impression Delaware does not receive enough snow to warrant AWD and/or dedicated snow tires. Given this RWD would be fine. Now that he's indicated he could benefit from snow tires that changes my impression of the amount of snow Delaware receives and given this new information AWD is my new recommendation. It goes back to my general rule of thumb which I wrote in post #39 of this thread.
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  #70  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:09 AM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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If you don't notice the difference then more power to you.
It's not a matter of noticing the difference or not. It's a matter of how does the OP plan to drive the car? Does he plan to use it as a daily driver with occasional spirited driving? Does he plan to use it as a daily driver and then take it out on the twisties every weekend? Will it be a secondary car that he takes out to drive through the twisties, kicking the rear end free as the urge arises? Is he going to track the car (we already know he has no intention of doing this)? What are his driving skills? Does he possess the skill necessary to push the tires to their limits thus requiring a use specific tire?

What 3284me and I are saying is the majority of drivers plan to use the vehicle as a daily driver with maybe an occassional stint of spirited driving. Occasionaly being defined as not enough to make a difference between RWD versus AWD, dedicated performance tires versus all seasons, sport suspension versus non-sport suspension, etc. It is also my opinion the vast majority of drivers do not possess the skills necessary to push the vehicles to their limits. I suspect the OP, and the vast majority of people who ask about RWD versus AWD fall into this category.

This is my general rule of thumb.
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  #71  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:25 AM
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I live in Vermont with AWD. The is the only reason I have it is I live on a dirt road that goes up a 11% grade for close to a mile before I get to my house. If that was not the case I would have bought a RW car. There are plenty of cars in New England that have RW drive cars with 4 snows for the winter and do just fine. Buy the RW car and move on with life for all the reasons stated in the other posts. Just my 2 cents...
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  #72  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:16 PM
S93D S93D is offline
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
The reason I initially recommended RWD was the impression Delaware does not receive enough snow to warrant AWD and/or dedicated snow tires.
Delaware does warrant snow tires. The ICBC, a car insurance company in British Columbia, where the weather is balmy in Vancouver, writes "all season tires are not designed to excel in any one condition; they are a compromise for all conditions. They are adequate at best in wet, dry and snowy conditions."

I lived in Philadelphia before. The weather is enough for snow tires. I had studded tires, which is overkill. Studded tires are actually worse in cold, dry weather.
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  #73  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:18 PM
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In Delaware I'd get performance snows (like Dunlop M3) rather than hardcore snows (Blizzak or Nokian Happa). Hardcore snows are very rumbly and don't handle well.
The new Michelin X-Ice Xi3 aren't bad at all. Much better than the rumbly Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 and better than the WS60.
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  #74  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:23 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is offline
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Delaware does warrant snow tires.
You'll need to take this up with the OP as he's the one who stated he's going to obtain winter tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S93D View Post
The ICBC, a car insurance company in British Columbia, where the weather is balmy in Vancouver, writes "all season tires are not designed to excel in any one condition; they are a compromise for all conditions. They are adequate at best in wet, dry and snowy conditions."
Why do people on this forum feel others are unaware of this?
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  #75  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 3284me View Post
Maybe because in real world driving no one can feel the difference between all seasons and summer performance tires . . .
Seriously? You are unable to tell the difference?

I can readily tell the difference between such tires within a block of normal non-aggressive driving. I would expect most to notice the difference merely commuting within a day or two at most.

(The difference between dedicated snows and high performance are easily detectible upon backing out of the garage after making the swap - dedicated snows feel like marshmallows.)
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