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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #151  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:58 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
I had a '79 Scirocco back in the day and I enjoyed it immensely. Same chassis/motor as the Golf (Rabbit back then).
It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.
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  #152  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.
I think there's a number of physiological and psychological factors at play too. When one is young, the senses are sharp. As we age and the senses deteriorate, we need more and more of whatever to re-create that sensation. Basically, one needs much more to be "wowed" and to overcome that feeling of "been there, done that". This is true for food, sightseeting, pay hikes, ...
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  #153  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixotesque View Post
Wonder what people are considering to be "middle age" these days?
According to the American Psychiatric Association, it's 45-65, up 5 years from a few years ago!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_age
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  #154  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:59 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
It's interesting that many people fondly remember their earlier cars as being fun, and sometimes more so than their current cars. I think it's because many of those cars were lighter and simpler as compared to the late model 3 Series BMWs, for example.
Good topic. I had a 1979 Rabbit with a MT. I remember it being a blast to drive. However if we put these in a modern context they would lack the amenities we all take for granted. Not to mention the modern safety features. Today if we drove them they would seem loud and crude.
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  #155  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:28 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Good topic. I had a 1979 Rabbit with a MT. I remember it being a blast to drive. However if we put these in a modern context they would lack the amenities we all take for granted. Not to mention the modern safety features. Today if we drove them they would seem loud and crude.
Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.
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Last edited by beden1; 02-06-2013 at 07:36 AM.
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  #156  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:12 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
To me this is just the fundamental difference between BMW and other brands. I can't even count the number of times people have made posts like this on Bimmerfest. Maybe people make posts like this on other forums, but I have a hard time envisioning it - was planning to buy the BMW 328i, but after I drove the C250 I signed the papers then and there and drove it home - maybe it happens, but I just doubt it happens with anywhere near the same frequency that it happens the other way around.

Small point of empirical evidence, at least to the greater enthusiasm of BMW owners - the BMW Car Club of America is the largest car club in the country and has over 75,000 members.

One other tidbit - Neither Mercedes nor Audi operate a Performance Driving Center in the U.S. like BMW does.
I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.
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  #157  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:16 PM
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  #158  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:17 PM
mr29 mr29 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.
very good post here

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  #159  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I agree, and this is something that's become much of a revelation to me since being stuck into the Mercedes brand for so long. BMW goes the extra mile to really "wow" you, and I think a lot of why they're doing so well these days is because on things as simple as a test drive, you just find it hard to find what they offer, be it objectively or soulfully subjectively, elsewhere.

As for the C250, I think the facelift made it a very elegant car, but the drivetrain is a dog. I don't expect a sporty vibe nor ride when I drive a Mercedes, but the engine is so sluggish, it's not even near effortless. Not to mention, the sounds it makes aren't very flattering (especially at idle, however that's kind of par for the course for a lot of 4-Cylinders, iMO).

Driving an F30 328i is truly on another level, the car is sporty, yet still refined as well, the technology that comes with it, and again, the logic-defying performance (especially compared with the C250) just make it a vastly superior objectively engineered vehicle to the C250 equivalent.
Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.
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  #160  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:29 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.
Thank you, sir. Love it here.

I was actually signed up for one of the AMG driving thingies, but overslept.
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  #161  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:49 PM
sr5959 sr5959 is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.
Funny I was just thinking last night I wish the F30 had an auto-close on the trunk!
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  #162  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:09 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Thank you, sir. Love it here.

I was actually signed up for one of the AMG driving thingies, but overslept.
Did they give you a refund?
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  #163  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:16 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Safety features are definitely better in today's cars. Do we really need the amenities, or are we taking for granted that we need them? My cars have the amenities but I rarely use many of them.

I do use the radio.
I do use the power windows and side mirrors.
I don't use the power seats after setting them the first time.
I don't use the heated seats but my wife does.
I don't use comfort access.
It is a rare occasion that I use the GPS.
I hate the i-drive as it's too complicated. I mostly check it for the tires, systems and tripometer.(BMW's first tripometer system was better)
I hate the complicated shifter for the auto transmission. Pushing a button before moving the electronic shift knob is just dumb, IMO. Give me a manual mechanism anyday.
I could live without the trunk auto close feature.

I basically appreciate driving the car whenever I'm on the road, and regardless of where I'm going. I really don't need or use most of the "creature comforts".

I wish the car was lighter and more nimble.
Funny because I use each and every single one of them.
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  #164  
Old 02-06-2013, 08:21 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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but after I drove the C250 I signed the papers then and there and drove it home - maybe it happens, but I just doubt it happens with anywhere near the same frequency that it happens the other way around.
The thing that bothered me most about the C350 coupe was I could never adjust the driver's side mirror like I'm used to (in such a way that I could see just beyond the car with my head nearly leaning on the driver's side window). I checked with the guys on mbworld.org and pretty much everyone said they had the same problem. I found it weird that the mirror just didn't have enough of a range of motion to be able to avoid blind spots.
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1988 Sentra / Gray / Gray / 2 DR / 4 MT / 190K+ Miles / Bought 06-1994 @ 120K+ Miles / Died 12-1997

Last edited by mr_clueless; 02-06-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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  #165  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:53 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
Did they give you a refund?
Maybe I'm talking about something different. It wasn't the "driving academy" actually, I was invited by AMG to drive the crap out of their cars on a race track.
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  #166  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Mercedes does have a performance driving school except they call it the AMG Academy. Welcome to the 'Fest, KA.
Yes, they operate the "driving academy" (at least $500 a pop), but they have not made the investment of building their own facility. That being the case they ,of course, do not offer any kind of Performance Center Delivery program.
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  #167  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:59 PM
gazlau gazlau is offline
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personally the CLA does not appeal to me. can see where MB is heading with the a-class and the cla - tapping into the pool of buyers who would have considered something like a VW but now giving it a second thought with the prices of the MB being within their reach!
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  #168  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:04 PM
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Yes, they operate the "driving academy" (at least $500 a pop), but they have not made the investment of building their own facility. That being the case they ,of course, do not offer any kind of Performance Center Delivery program.
No, they have not buy the benefit to that is that AMG had contracts with two tracks, one on the East and one on the West. Another benefit to that is you're on a professional circuit. One designed for racing. Not something that was put together to be a 'racetrack'.
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  #169  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:12 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
No, they have not buy the benefit to that is that AMG had contracts with two tracks, one on the East and one on the West. Another benefit to that is you're on a professional circuit. One designed for racing. Not something that was put together to be a 'racetrack'.
Audi's program is similar and is offered at Infineon.
http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/09...ng_experience/
I attended their 1/2-day S-class course (because it was nearby) in 2009 and it was a lot of fun. I drove the S5 which had the V8 back then. Was my first and only track experience and it made me realize how hard tracking is on the car.
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Last edited by mr_clueless; 02-06-2013 at 11:15 PM.
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  #170  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:32 AM
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I'm 38, and agree.

I don't think people give the CLA enough credit.

It is VERY difficult to release a fresh, different design like this, as opposed to what BMW is doing with the 3 series....

Don't get me wrong, the three is a nice car, very pleasant, but BMW plays it very safe and conservative with their styling.

Its a pro and con...they can't deviate too far from what people love...but they will always be evolutionary.
I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.
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  #171  
Old 02-07-2013, 03:58 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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In what cars? I haven't experienced that in either the current C Class or E Class. In fact, I think Merc should be downright embarrassed by the E Class' handling. Sorry, don't have much hope for a new FWD model that will only offer four banger motors.
Funny you mention that. I never had a problem with the exaggerated body roll of my W212 "Sport", since I got my M-B for what I feel M-B is about; wafting, luxurious ride.... which in turn is what made me feel l like I needed to get rid of it and move on (also, the ride wasn't as luxurious as one would hope for.... especially from a car that has so much body roll)....

.... but my friend who was driving my W212 E-Class, who I was following in my F10 M Sport on the way home from the Dealer, at a couple of points almost swerved into another lane, which had me flipped.... he later told me "that car handles like an old Cadillac! I almost got into accidents 'cause of the body roll!". I couldn't believe hearing that from him, considering how acclimated to its driving I've been, and considering his personal car was a beater.

Last edited by K-A; 02-07-2013 at 03:59 AM.
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  #172  
Old 02-07-2013, 06:00 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by k-a View Post
i'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The cla is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the cla are awful proportions due to a stubby fwd chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a fwd econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-series (or c-class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a lancer evo, but don't want a mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently economy-car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the cla if it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the mercedes brand, although it's a fwd car starting under $30k, would force the c-class and its 3-series rival to move up in public perception.
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  #173  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:16 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Funny you mention that. I never had a problem with the exaggerated body roll of my W212 "Sport", since I got my M-B for what I feel M-B is about; wafting, luxurious ride.... which in turn is what made me feel l like I needed to get rid of it and move on (also, the ride wasn't as luxurious as one would hope for.... especially from a car that has so much body roll)....

.... but my friend who was driving my W212 E-Class, who I was following in my F10 M Sport on the way home from the Dealer, at a couple of points almost swerved into another lane, which had me flipped.... he later told me "that car handles like an old Cadillac! I almost got into accidents 'cause of the body roll!". I couldn't believe hearing that from him, considering how acclimated to its driving I've been, and considering his personal car was a beater.
I had an F10 as a loaner for the day. The handling is softer, less sure footed, and there is noticeable body roll as compared to my wife's E60 535xi (ours without the sport suspension). So, the Mercedes E-Class must feel like a boat (I have not driven a Mercedes since our 2004 S600 which handled extremely well).
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  #174  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.
Have to disagree. Mercedes does not make econo cars for the US market. It's not supposed to attract EVO buyers, it's a new entry level Mercedes Benz and should have all the same qualities as any car in their lineup except for being FWD. It will compete against the Acura TSX, VW CC, next generation BMW 1 series and the like. I seriously doubt it will be "brash" except in the Mercedes context which means sportier than the normal non-AMG models.
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  #175  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:58 AM
Stavrs Stavrs is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I'm seeing a lot of these posts here. I think people are missing the point.

The 3-Series is a "core model", it needs to look timeless, it needs to age well. The CLA is a trendy design chalk full of fads that probably will age poorly, therefore putting a strong date-stamp on the design. This is kind of its intent, as it will provide it a lot of immediate fashionable hype, which as hype usually does, will wear off, while the 3-Series will more-so look fresh in a decade from now.

My personal opinion of the CLA are awful proportions due to a stubby FWD chassis, and erratically superflous lines which make no sense, a cartoonishly featured face and a droopy behind.

That all said, this car is not in a 3-Series' league, and once people see and drive it in person, they will most certainly realize that. This is a FWD Econo car, make no mistake, with what will be a terrible use of interior space. It won't have any engines larger than a 4-Cylinder. This won't be as sophisticated nor mature a car as the 3-Series (or C-Class), it won't be as "prestigious" if you had to pick one in that element. This car is aiming for those who like the design characteristics of a car like a Lancer Evo, but don't want a Mitsubishi. This car is about being brash and immature, and it has an inherently Economy-Car like substance to make it feasible to its intended market.

I think that any success of the CLA IF it can still sell people on the historical "prestige" of the Mercedes brand, although it's a FWD car starting under $30K, would force the C-Class and its 3-Series rival to move up in public perception.
Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?
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