The Real 3 Series Killer - The Mercedes Benz CLA

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?

I like the look of the CLA but contrary to your point about BMW, the F30 will be like nearly every 3 series and look good for a long time. Look at the E46 which has been out of production for about 8 years. It still looks very handsome. I expect the E90 to be the same. I am looking at mine right now outside my window at work and while it's not a beautiful design, it's simple and is perfectly proportioned. The F30 is the same just slightly more modern looking. You can go back to the 2002 from the early 1970's. It would never pass today's rollover standards but it's still a great looking car. The only recent BMW that may not age well is the 1 series.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

...The only recent BMW that may not age well is the 1 series.

I agree with everything except about the current 1 series not aging well. The only thing wrong with the older ones are the PTSD looking headlights. Beyond that, they actually look like handsomely updated E36 coupes.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

I agree with everything except about the current 1 series not aging well. The only thing wrong with the older ones are the PTSD looking headlights. Beyond that, they actually look like handsomely updated E36 coupes.

To me the proportions are just a bit off, not as bad as the 318Ti, but a bit too scrunched. This is exacerbated by the 1m, even though I want to love that car.

Originally Posted by beden1

I had an F10 as a loaner for the day. The handling is softer, less sure footed, and there is noticeable body roll as compared to my wife's E60 535xi (ours without the sport suspension). So, the Mercedes E-Class must feel like a boat (I have not driven a Mercedes since our 2004 S600 which handled extremely well).

Yes, the F10 feels very sporty compared to the W212. I can attest to that. The E60 was too raw for me, which is why I was in Mercedes'. The F10 basically went for me, a guy who needs a luxurious ride, but now wanted something more dynamic than the E. I guess job well done.

Originally Posted by Stavrs

Very strong comments considering that most likely you have not seen the car in person much less driven it.

From my perspective there is nothing timeless about the 3 series - it looks way too common and follows the design language of our times. When this language changes as it does every so often it will look old.

The CLA on the other hand is introducing another segment like the CLS did, no matter if you like this new segment or not. It is following a design language that deviates from the norm of our times. Isn't this the actual definition of timeless? Independent of time?

I have a very different definition of "Timeless" than you do, I guess.

Timeless is anti-fashion, it's more about style, and in many ways, simplicity. The CLS and CLA to me are completely fashionable, which to me will put a date-stamp on them. The 3-Series is a timeless, conservative look, there's little about it that will stamp it with a date. It's just a good looking car, with little gimmicks. The CLA has every gimmick of 2012 applied to it, accompanied by wayward lines, which may not age well to the eyes, therefore I consider that what will "date" it in a premature fashion.

The E60 and E65 were revolutionary, and look at how badly they're aging. The F30 and F10 era's are the anti-that, they're intended graceful designs that will age very well, lines that make sense, sharp styling yet nothing too jarring (minus the F30's nose a bit, IMO) yet lots of smoothed corners which I feel usually prove to age better than hard ones, flawless proportions, an "it just works" idiom. The CLA isn't a graceful design.... it isn't intended to be, as that's not what that market for that price range are looking for. If they were, the C-Class will give them that effect much better.

Originally Posted by K-A

Yes, the F10 feels very sporty compared to the W212. I can attest to that. The E60 was too raw for me, which is why I was in Mercedes'. The F10 basically went for me, a guy who needs a luxurious ride, but now wanted something more dynamic than the E. I guess job well done.




I have a very different definition of "Timeless" than you do, I guess.

Timeless is anti-fashion, it's more about style, and in many ways, simplicity. The CLS and CLA to me are completely fashionable, which to me will put a date-stamp on them. The 3-Series is a timeless, conservative look, there's little about it that will stamp it with a date. It's just a good looking car, with little gimmicks. The CLA has every gimmick of 2012 applied to it, accompanied by wayward lines, which may not age well to the eyes, therefore I consider that what will "date" it in a premature fashion.

The E60 and E65 were revolutionary, and look at how badly they're aging. The F30 and F10 era's are the anti-that, they're intended graceful designs that will age very well, lines that make sense, sharp styling yet nothing too jarring (minus the F30's nose a bit, IMO) yet lots of smoothed corners which I feel usually prove to age better than hard ones, flawless proportions, an "it just works" idiom. The CLA isn't a graceful design.... it isn't intended to be, as that's not what that market for that price range are looking for. If they were, the C-Class will give them that effect much better.

As looks are subjective, all I can say is that I don't personally agree with this statement. As a long term BMW owner, I'll also say that the looks are secondary to the performance. That's why we will not be replacing our E60 with an F10.

Current BMWs in our stable: 2011 M3 sedan, 2011 335is convertible, 2008 535xi

Previous BMWs: 2001 740iL, 1983 533i, 1979 320i

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

To me the proportions are just a bit off, not as bad as the 318Ti, but a bit too scrunched. This is exacerbated by the 1m, even though I want to love that car.

Scrunched? Not sure what you mean by that.

If dimensionally, then compared to the F30..............oh yeah. That's a supreme compliment in my book.

The one and upcoming two series are a refresher in BMW 101....................return to basics BMW's.

It's why AG hypes them as reinvented 2002's. Just marketing rubbish really, because they're more like reinvented E30's.

And frankly they are the only series that rev my pulse rate, regardless of their perceived appearance.

The drier remains fine for family hauling requirements, which is why I maintain an interest in the Touring.

But have simply become too big and bloated to be considered eminently chuckable.

If the einser reihe is "scrunched", then the entire AG lineup would do well to aspire to the same.

What I mean by svrunched is the scaleof things, like the green house, or fender flares are large compared to he hood, trunk and over hangs. Its proportions 101. This is not my unique opinion. Kind of like the M Coupe, it can be an acquired taste.

Originally Posted by IndyMike

Scrunched? Not sure what you mean by that.

If dimensionally, then compared to the F30..............oh yeah. That's a supreme compliment in my book.

The one and upcoming two series are a refresher in BMW 101....................return to basics BMW's.

It's why AG hypes them as reinvented 2002's. Just marketing rubbish really, because they're more like reinvented E30's.

And frankly they are the only series that rev my pulse rate, regardless of their perceived appearance.

The drier remains fine for family hauling requirements, which is why I maintain an interest in the Touring.

But have simply become too big and bloated to be considered eminently chuckable.

If the einser reihe is "scrunched", then the entire AG lineup would do well to aspire to the same.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

What I mean by svrunched is the scaleof things, like the green house, or fender flares are large compared to he hood, trunk and over hangs. Its proportions 101. This is not my unique opinion. Kind of like the M Coupe, it can be an acquired taste.

Okay, got it now. I wasn't much of a fan at first, but it gradually grew on me............and after a test drive in a 6 speed manual I was a goner.

The 1 M has to have flared fenders to fit the bigger meats. A big complaint of the modder mad one crowd is the limited tire options on the base car. Rolling the fenders was the only way to get more contact patch down.

You can tell that the difference between the two fender wise are considerable. The downside is you burn through rear rubbers more quickly, which was never a problem with the 135 to begin with.

As far as the CLA, I like the design but have no interest until available in AWD.

I'd still take an R20 over it, but only while supplies last.