Need info about Summer tires offered by default

Hi friends,

You helped me choose RWD over xDrive in my other thread - thanks for that.
In this thread, I want to ask questions about the tires that I should get with RWD..
So, my questions are:

When I choose 335i sedan - no xDrive - the default tire option is 18" 400M Mixed summer.

1. Are these summer performance tires - the same as I have read at other places on this board?

2. Will they come in staggered setup or square? I don't see an option of specifying that on the website..

3. From what I have read, square setup is good for maintaining longer tread as you can rotate the wheels around, and staggered setup is good for maintaining more balance in the rear, for making quicker sharper turns, etc.. There must be more differences than that I believe, can you guys add to that as well?

4. Summer tires increase the top speed delimiter as well, correct? Or is there a particular type of summer tires that increase that? The default summer tires being offered - will they provide increased top speed delimiter?

Thanks in advance!

Are you sure about that? The default tires are all-seasons, right? I think this is true for the no-line, sport line, luxury line and modern. I am not sure about M Sport though.

I think you have to upgrade to 19" wheels to get mixed tires.

Originally Posted by krash

Are you sure about that? The default tires are all-seasons, right? I think this is true for the no-line, sport line, luxury line and modern. I am not sure about M Sport though.

I think you have to upgrade to 19" wheels to get mixed tires.

Yes, sure.. I am doing a build right now... Msport 2013 sedan 335i - default selection is 18" star-spoke 400M wheels w/ mixed summer tires. Other options are :

1. 18" star-spoke 400M wheels w/ all-seasontires
2. 19" star-spoke 403M wheels w/ mixed summer tires - extra $900.

I'm only interested in 18".

The default becomes all-season when selecting x-Drive.

My understanding is the default for USA is staggered summer performance tires for the 335i M Sport. They are the ideal choice for the 335i, IMO. The extra width on the rear really helps handling the car's torque output.

If you opt for a square all season set-up, you will not only compromise traction, but you will significantly increase your car's braking distances compared to braking with the summer performance tires. This increase in braking distances has been observed by various road tests (Car& Driver, etc.).

However, if your car should be fitted with Goodyear Efficient Grip tires from the factory, insist that your dealer swap them for one of the other brands that are being fitted on 335i M Sport : Bridgestone, Pirelli or Continental. I would suggest that you make sure your dealer agrees to this potential swap BEFORE your order is finalized.

Originally Posted by DerekS

However, if your car should be fitted with Goodyear Efficient Grip tires from the factory, insist that your dealer swap them for one of the other brands that are being fitted on 335i M Sport : Bridgestone, Pirelli or Continental.

Why so?

Originally Posted by DerekS

I would suggest that you make sure your dealer agrees to this potential swap BEFORE your order is finalized.

My order had already been finalized in late December last year.. and I am doing ED.. so I think i will get what BMW installs in Munich..

Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer

Why so?




My order had already been finalized in late December last year.. and I am doing ED.. so I think i will get what BMW installs in Munich..

the goodyear efficientgrip is a grand touring summer tire, low rolling resistance.

grading from top to bottom is (roughly)

Extreme perf summer
max perf summer
ultra high perf summer
ultra high perf all season
high perf all season
perf all season
grand touring summer
grand touring all season
passenger all season

the continentals and bridgestones are max performance summer tires, the pirellis are ultra high performance. not sure why bmw specc'ed the goodyears....

to answer the rest:
by default, the MSport comes with mixed (staggered) summer tires on staggered rims. see above for which you may get. you also get a 155mph speed limiter
if you select the all season option, you get non staggered tires on non staggered rims, and a reduced max speed limiter to match H rated all season tires (130mph)

All this is negated due to being funflats. I say it goes down one tier automatically. Maybe even two.

And a good tire setup that is square will handle better (less understeer) and you prob wont ever get to 155mph.

Originally Posted by pkim1079

And a good tire setup that is square will handle better (less understeer) and you prob wont ever get to 155mph.

HE might, he's picking the car in Munich.

I didn't do it, didn't feel like doing more than 140 in traffic that morning. However, better planned ED next time WILL result in 155. You bet.

Originally Posted by pkim1079

All this is negated due to being funflats. I say it goes down one tier automatically. Maybe even two.

And a good tire setup that is square will handle better (less understeer) and you prob wont ever get to 155mph.

I disagree. You may not like the ride of run flat tires but the construction has nothing to do with grip or tread life. That's all about compound and maybe tread design.

[QUOTE=pkim1079;7336612
And a good tire setup that is square will handle better (less understeer) and you prob wont ever get to 155mph.[/QUOTE]

BMW engineers disagree with statement. Every M car has a staggered set-up, as do the M Sport models. This is done to improve overall handling, not to diminish it.

Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer

Hi friends,

You helped me choose RWD over xDrive in my other thread - thanks for that.
In this thread, I want to ask questions about the tires that I should get with RWD..
So, my questions are:

When I choose 335i sedan - no xDrive - the default tire option is 18" 400M Mixed summer.

1. Are these summer performance tires - the same as I have read at other places on this board?

2. Will they come in staggered setup or square? I don't see an option of specifying that on the website..
3. From what I have read, square setup is good for maintaining longer tread as you can rotate the wheels around, and staggered setup is good for maintaining more balance in the rear, for making quicker sharper turns, etc.. There must be more differences than that I believe, can you guys add to that as well?

4. Summer tires increase the top speed delimiter as well, correct? Or is there a particular type of summer tires that increase that? The default summer tires being offered - will they provide increased top speed delimiter?
Thanks in advance!

Personally I always like to rotate tires for the very reason you state, however the rotation is primarily for vehicles that have an imbalanced weight distribution. The heaver front ends of most cars and trucks usually wear the front tires out quicker and you balance the wear by rotating (of course there are other factors too). Since the BMW exhibits a good 51/49 F/R balance the tires should wear pretty even (as long as the proper inflation and you do not perform regular burnouts: p ).

That being said, the summer tires DO have to be ordered to get the higher speed limiter. You have to have the z-rated tires. The staggered setup has a more aggressive stance and sportier appearance (especially with the RWD and DHP). If you are going to have a set of winter wheels anyways, I would be inclined to get the staggered setup with the RWD. However, I would ask some other owners how their staggered setup wears tires, I have seen some complain about the run flats performance and the short life on the Z-rated high speed summer tires (only 20K miles?!).

Originally Posted by kpgray

However, I would ask some other owners how their staggered setup wears tires, I have seen some complain about the run flats performance and the short life on the Z-rated high speed summer tires (only 20K miles?!).

On E92 they are Y rated tires (186 mph).

The rears are definitely going sooner than fronts on mine, both with OEM Potenzas and with Michelin PSS tires. I do drive aggressively and I do track that car with regular tires (HPDE).

I believe 20,000 miles might be a bit low, but not far from what you would get on REAR tires. It is hard to say for me because I switch to winters and I still have to wear down a set completely - Potenzas were dumped with 6/32 on front tires left, I couldn't stand them on the car anymore. At that moment they had about 18/19,000 miles on them. I don't know about rears since those went literally to a dumpster at tire place, one was flat and driven on it.

One more thing, square setup I use for winter is definitely better handling (I believe because of 17" wheels) and it DOES reduce understeer, but you really shouldn't push the car to the point to notice that on public roads. What I mean is that you can notice less understeer, but only in situations in which you shouldn't find yourself on public roads

Could someone answer a few questions for me? I have a Sport Line on order and my VIR shows ZPT (Performance Summer Tires).

Staggered setup means wider rear tires, and squared means same width tires all around? I thought that Sport Line models were always squared setup regardless if you chose the performance summer or all seasons tires?

What could I expect for the difference in wear and drivability between the Performance Summer Tires and if my car was ordered with the All Season Tires? I never was asked which I preferred for my order.

I am not familar with this stuff as this will be my first BMW and high peformance vehicle so any help would be very much appreciated!

Originally Posted by dzaborn

Could someone answer a few questions for me? I have a Sport Line on order and my VIR shows ZPT (Performance Summer Tires).

Staggered setup means wider rear tires, and squared means same width tires all around? I thought that Sport Line models were always squared setup regardless if you chose the performance summer or all seasons tires?

What could I expect for the difference in wear and drivability between the Performance Summer Tires and if my car was ordered with the All Season Tires? I never was asked which I preferred for my order.

I am not familar with this stuff as this will be my first BMW and high peformance vehicle so any help would be very much appreciated!

The staggered set up is wider rear tires, they are only available with the 328i M-sport package (not available on 328i Base, Sport, Luxury or Modern). It is standard on the 335i M-sport and it is available on the other packages (335i Sport, Luxury or Modern) with the 19" wheel option except with the Base where it is not available.

The summer tires are manufactured for dry pavement and high speed. They will equal or outperform the all season tires on most anything except snow (Do not get much of that in Florida). That is because the rubber is softer and will grip much better, but the trade-off is they the summer high speed tires will wear out quicker.

Wow, great information on this thread... I'm enlightened!
I hope I don't get the GoodYear ones mentioned in one of the above posts...
So, I'm going with RWD, Summer tires - 18" , fingers-crossed on Manufacturer..

Originally Posted by Mark K

HE might, he's picking the car in Munich.

I didn't do it, didn't feel like doing more than 140 in traffic that morning. However, better planned ED next time WILL result in 155. You bet.

Rightly said, buddy! I am planning to hit the 'Ring after 1200 miles... and while coming back to Munich, I will try the max speed and have my dad take the signature pic

Originally Posted by kpgray

The staggered set up is wider rear tires, they are only available with the 328i M-sport package (not available on 328i Base, Sport, Luxury or Modern). It is standard on the 335i M-sport and it is available on the other packages (335i Sport, Luxury or Modern) with the 19" wheel option except with the Base where it is not available.

The summer tires are manufactured for dry pavement and high speed. They will equal or outperform the all season tires on most anything except snow (Do not get much of that in Florida). That is because the rubber is softer and will grip much better, but the trade-off is they the summer high speed tires will wear out quicker.

Thanks very much for the info. I assume the summer tires are more expensive than the all seasons? How much more wear are we talking... as in about how many miles could you expect to get out of each set (summer vs. all seaons) if you were not a severly aggresive driver.

If leasing, and take delivery with summer tires, can you return the car with all seasons or vice-versa?

I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but getting AS tires on a 335 is like hitting the basketball court in a pair of loafers. It's a sport sedan, get the summers for those spirited driving sessions. If you're not going to drive it hard every so often, then you don't need the 335, a 328 or 320 will suffice.

FWIW, I do have the GY RoF and its not the best tire (braking can be cumbersome with the LRR), I don't think they're terrible either. However, that said, I won't be getting them again, I'm leaning towards the Michelin Pilots for the next set, but what I'm saying is don't feel bad if you get the GY's.

and for summer tire life, you should be able to get 15K out of them, maybe 20 if you baby them. Depends on how you drive. I had an STi with Z rated Pirellis and I got about 11K out of those before they needed changing.

Finally, mixed setup FTW. My sport Line came with the square setup, which is fine but mixed gives you better balance on the road, plus it looks completely badass. yes, definitely switching to staggered with the next 4 tires. I'm just on the fence about sticking with the RFTs.

Originally Posted by kpgray

The summer tires are manufactured for dry pavement and high speed. They will equal or outperform the all season tires on most anything except snow (Do not get much of that in Florida). That is because the rubber is softer and will grip much better, but the trade-off is they the summer high speed tires will wear out quicker.

How long until will they generally wear out Ken? Are we talking about new tires every year?

Does BMW or the dealers equip any of the summer tires with Michelin PS2 or PSS RFTs instead of the Bridgestone, Continental or Pirellis? Would much rather prefer the best RFTs out of the box than the lower quality brands/models for summer tires.

Originally Posted by av98

Does BMW or the dealers equip any of the summer tires with Michelin PS2 or PSS RFTs instead of the Bridgestone, Continental or Pirellis? Would much rather prefer the best RFTs out of the box than the lower quality brands/models for summer tires.

PSS not available in runflat.
PS2 ZP not available in the correct sizes.

the only factory options/ tires avail to dealer are:
18"
Bridgestone Potenza S 001
Pirelli Cinturato P7
Goodyear EfficientGrip ROF
Continental SportContact 5 SSR

19"
Bridgestone Potenza S 001 RFT
Continental SportContact 5 SSR
Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 ROF
Pirelli P Zero r-f

Originally Posted by DerekS

BMW engineers disagree with statement. Every M car has a staggered set-up, as do the M Sport models. This is done to improve overall handling, not to diminish it.

I thought the reason for wider rear tires on M cars, not counting cosmetics, was to better handle the power; i.e., provide more rubber for better grip of the driven wheels.

Bruce

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

PSS not available in runflat.
PS2 ZP not available in the correct sizes.

the only factory options/ tires avail to dealer are:
18"
Bridgestone Potenza S 001
Pirelli Cinturato P7
Goodyear EfficientGrip ROF
Continental SportContact 5 SSR

So, are these tires relatively equal in quality or are some better than others?