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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:05 PM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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Mein Auto: 2009 328i hardtop convert
Leaking 2009 328i hardtop convertible

My 2009 328i hardtop convertible leaks down the inside of the front and rear windows. After acquiring the documentation required to file a lemon law request, and attending arbitration, the members of the lemon law board all agreed that my car leaked but found it was not a substantial non-conformity. Just live with the leaks and musty smell and don't expect to sell it as no one would buy it!

I work for an attorney who wants to file a class action lawsuit against BMW for the manufactured defect of leaking hardtop convertibles. If you have the same problem and wish to join in, please advise.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2011, 05:27 PM
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mclaren mclaren is offline
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I've got the same car, no leak. Never had 1 drop. Go through no touch car washes every week. My car was built 1/09.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2011, 06:09 PM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
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My 2009 E93 every once in a while will get one droplet down the passenger window when I wash it. Probably has something to do with the angle of approach when I'm rinsing it. It's certainly not what I would call a significant problem.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2011, 05:42 AM
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Thunder Dump Thunder Dump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren View Post
I've got the same car, no leak. Never had 1 drop. Go through no touch car washes every week. My car was built 1/09.
They must have been doing something right in January. Mine is a 01/09 build as well and I have *zero* leaks and go through both touchless and touch car washes on a regular basis.
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  #5  
Old 01-13-2011, 06:26 AM
Blue1 Blue1 is offline
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+2

Mine is a 01/10 build and I occasional get a drop down the passenger when I wash it. Never been through a car wash and never leaked in the rain.
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  #6  
Old 01-13-2011, 08:58 AM
boothguy boothguy is offline
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Sparkle: you haven't told us how much leakage you're getting. Most of us E93 owners get a very small amount when washing as my friends above have explained - my car included. But when the occasional car comes along that has a serious leaking problem, it would seem that no one, even in Florida, could call it "not a substantial nonconformity". If you search this forum, you'll even find some jaw-dropping video of what a real prolem leaking top looks like. Please describe what yours is doing in greater detail.
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  #7  
Old 01-13-2011, 10:49 AM
rgzimmer rgzimmer is offline
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I had a small leak after getting the car repaired from an accident. Before bringing it in to be fixed, I did some pretty extensive investigation of potential leak points and found it. The shop missed what I had found, but they did find that my top was about 1mm off when closing so it wasn't forming a perfect seal. I then pointed out the problem I saw and they were surprised to see it. Adjusting the roof would have no effect on it.

On the front passenger side of the roof seal, pull the rubber away from the top side next to the roof. It looks like it should be a perfectly flush connection, but I found a spot where two pieces of rubber come together and left a gap about the size of an audio connection hole. The roof wouldn't leak with pressure (like when driving or going through a car wash), but if it sat in one spot, the roof line would fill up with water and reach that hole. It then started coming in pretty heavily. The fix was to just put some rubber sealant there.
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  #8  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:04 AM
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napoleon napoleon is offline
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Zero leaks on my 2007.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:30 AM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
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RGZ,

Could you post some pics? I think it would be helpful to know the critical spot to keep an eye on.

Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 01-13-2011, 02:45 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boothguy View Post
Sparkle: you haven't told us how much leakage you're getting. Most of us E93 owners get a very small amount when washing as my friends above have explained - my car included. But when the occasional car comes along that has a serious leaking problem, it would seem that no one, even in Florida, could call it "not a substantial nonconformity". If you search this forum, you'll even find some jaw-dropping video of what a real prolem leaking top looks like. Please describe what yours is doing in greater detail.
It also varies based on the state where the lemon law arbitration occurs. If BMW is able to get car types (Service Advisors are the worst; they take the position that if you were concerned about leaks, you shouldn't have got a convertible) to do the arbitration, it is over before it even starts. Fortunately, CA doesn't buy the whole arbitration crap and lets the consumer go to court once the car meets the requirements for lemon law jurisdiction.

OP probably has a leak where the front side and rear side windows seal together. After the windshield frame - top seal, the side window seal is the next most problematic sealing area on the E93. My ex-E93 leaked at both places. When the shop foreman couldn't get the windshield frame - top seal to seal, they didn't bother trying to get the side window seals to seal. It was time to move forward on the lemon law action.
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  #11  
Old 01-13-2011, 03:17 PM
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mstrq mstrq is offline
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OP didn't specify whether it leaks just at carwash or even in the rainy whether. In automated high-presusre car wash stations, I get leaks at the joint where windshield frame and roof panel meet, but just small drops. And I get leaks where 2nd and 3rd roof panels meet (next to rear windows), and the drops are bigger back there. I just put paper towels at the joints before going into an auto car wash. However, if it leaks in the rain all the time (not just small amount but drizzles here and there), it's a different story...
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2011, 03:50 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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I get a few droplets by the base of the "imaginary" b-pillar, ONLY with high pressure car washes (I know, I know, the manual recommends against this).

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:23 AM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
 
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Mein Auto: 2009 328i hardtop convert
2009 328i leaking hardtop convertible

Quote:
Originally Posted by boothguy View Post
Sparkle: you haven't told us how much leakage you're getting. Most of us E93 owners get a very small amount when washing as my friends above have explained - my car included. But when the occasional car comes along that has a serious leaking problem, it would seem that no one, even in Florida, could call it "not a substantial nonconformity". If you search this forum, you'll even find some jaw-dropping video of what a real prolem leaking top looks like. Please describe what yours is doing in greater detail.
When I hand wash or it rains relatively hard, the water pours down in a steady stream, at two different locations of my front windows. It has also dripped water down the back inside windows. I have never taken my car through a car wash. When I went for a pre-inspection test before arbitration, the automobile dealer's car wash person, blasted the roof of my car relatively hard and it came down like Niagara Falls on the inside even getting the service advisor's sleeve wet. I had a 2008 328i hardtop convertible that did the same thing and eventually caused my door panels to ripple, which is why BMW then replaced it with a 2009. My major concern is who wants to buy a $40K car that leaks and will eventually cause additional problems? My car also has a musty smell from the leaking.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2011, 09:27 AM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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Mein Auto: 2009 328i hardtop convert
2009 328i hardtop convertible

Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
It also varies based on the state where the lemon law arbitration occurs. If BMW is able to get car types (Service Advisors are the worst; they take the position that if you were concerned about leaks, you shouldn't have got a convertible) to do the arbitration, it is over before it even starts. Fortunately, CA doesn't buy the whole arbitration crap and lets the consumer go to court once the car meets the requirements for lemon law jurisdiction.

OP probably has a leak where the front side and rear side windows seal together. After the windshield frame - top seal, the side window seal is the next most problematic sealing area on the E93. My ex-E93 leaked at both places. When the shop foreman couldn't get the windshield frame - top seal to seal, they didn't bother trying to get the side window seals to seal. It was time to move forward on the lemon law action.
Did you file a lemon law action?
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  #15  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:28 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparklesnow View Post
Did you file a lemon law action?
Yup. Car was repurchased (check cleared my bank) within 1 month of my attorney contacting BMW NA. That is the difference between CA and FL (and a bunch of other states) lemon law coverage. No arbitration crap. Since my attorney fees were being covered by BMW NA, they cut their loses fast.
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  #16  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:30 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline Sixer View Post
I get a few droplets by the base of the "imaginary" b-pillar, ONLY with high pressure car washes (I know, I know, the manual recommends against this).

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp
If that is all you get in the way of 'leaks', you are one of the lucky ones.
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2011, 07:17 AM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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leaking hardtop convertible

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparklesnow View Post
Did you file a lemon law action?
Yes and the arbitration board decided it was okay for it to leak. Unbelievable! Thus, I am trying to get discouraged people who are have the leaking issue to join in a class action lawsuit.
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2011, 07:20 AM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
Yup. Car was repurchased (check cleared my bank) within 1 month of my attorney contacting BMW NA. That is the difference between CA and FL (and a bunch of other states) lemon law coverage. No arbitration crap. Since my attorney fees were being covered by BMW NA, they cut their loses fast.
Lucky you!
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:26 PM
nosteiner4me nosteiner4me is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 335i convertible
Our 2011 hardtop leaked like a waterfall, went back and forth to
dealer and final response was that the seals were working but
to keep out of any carwashes with high pressure hoses. The car
leaked water in the rain without high pressure hoses. I did have
2 loaner hardtop convertibles 2011 and both of them did leak
pretty bad in a carwash, rain. Got my car back and did some
checking myself in the workings of the seals and in 2 hours time
fixed my seal problem and have no water worries anymore. If I
still had the leak I would join the fight as well. Good luck in your
fight since the seal is a poor design that needs changed at the
front pillars.
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  #20  
Old 01-16-2011, 05:13 PM
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dkreidel dkreidel is offline
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11/09 build and zero leaks. It gets washed a couple of times a month but admittedly hasn't seen a lot of rain in SoCal.

I had an Austin Healey that leaked so bad in the rain it was better to drive with the top down and tonneau cover on

Dick
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2011, 07:09 AM
sparklesnow sparklesnow is offline
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Mein Auto: 2009 328i hardtop convert
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosteiner4me View Post
Our 2011 hardtop leaked like a waterfall, went back and forth to
dealer and final response was that the seals were working but
to keep out of any carwashes with high pressure hoses. The car
leaked water in the rain without high pressure hoses. I did have
2 loaner hardtop convertibles 2011 and both of them did leak
pretty bad in a carwash, rain. Got my car back and did some
checking myself in the workings of the seals and in 2 hours time
fixed my seal problem and have no water worries anymore. If I
still had the leak I would join the fight as well. Good luck in your
fight since the seal is a poor design that needs changed at the
front pillars.
What did you do?
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2011, 09:20 AM
nosteiner4me nosteiner4me is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 335i convertible
Sparklesnow,
You have to block off both the drivers side and passenger side window
seal at the end of the seal that faces towards the front. You will notice that
the seal on both sides are open at both ends. You have to raise the front
roof section about 1 ft or so and you will see the ends. If water ever gets
behind the seals it will run down by gravity towards the front of the car
and since the seal is open at the end, water will enter the inside of the car
at the front pillars since the pillar has a hole for drainage that is higher
than the seal that sits in that little drip edge area with no where to go but
over the drip edge. Another poster posted earlier that you have to be
careful since so many pressure points with this roof so use something
flexible not hard to block off the end of seal. I am having trouble getting
my pictures uploaded, they are uploaded on another post I posted little
while ago about my problems that I fixed. Good luck and I still love
the car, drives great in snow with 17" snow tires on.
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:26 AM
rgzimmer rgzimmer is offline
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Circled in the pic. You'll see the seal is slightly pulled away on one side from me trying to look at it. It has rubber cement in it so I didn't want to pull too hard and break the seal again.
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:29 AM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosteiner4me View Post
I am having trouble getting
my pictures uploaded, they are uploaded on another post I posted little
while ago about my problems that I fixed. Good luck and I still love
the car, drives great in snow with 17" snow tires on.
I remember you doing this, but didn't realize you posted pics. Can you post the link to other thread? I'm wondering if your fix would apply to those of us that get the occasional one droplet at well.

Thanks.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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Nordic_Kat Nordic_Kat is offline
die Schlichterin
Location: Texas
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgzimmer View Post
Circled in the pic. You'll see the seal is slightly pulled away on one side from me trying to look at it. It has rubber cement in it so I didn't want to pull too hard and break the seal again.
RG - Thanks for showing your spot.
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