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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 09-11-2014, 06:01 PM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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Dinan S4 335Xi

I'm upgrading my 2008 335 to this package. It advertises up to 440 HP, which sounds insane (meant for racing, and illegal for road use in several states) but I'm in Canada. My track days are over, but I was wondering if anyone has experience with this package? Any advice?

I was considering getting a new M4, but the cost was prohibitive. The S4 Dinan upgrade costs about 1/8, and the power exceeds the M4 ( and a Porsche 911 Carrera, for that matter).
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:08 PM
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From what I've read, the S55 is severely underrated at 425hp, with some dynos reporting 460+. I wouldn't compare the two vehicles.

That being said, you are about to unleash the hounds of hell when it comes to Dinan vs
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:42 PM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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I still have an E36 M3 ('97) which I use as a summer car. But I really like the 335's suspension for its gentler ride.

I've always taken manufacturers' specs on power with a grain of salt, and BMW typically does underestimate output. But I do like that sweet inline 6 engine!
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:58 PM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is offline
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The S4 package by Dinan is also severely over rated - 440hp is the flywheel rating, the car will maybe make 370 at the wheels - M4 is making in the 425 range at the wheels.

Be an educated consumer - there are a lot of choices to tune an N54 and most of them make as much or more power than the Dinan S4 software for much much less money. Cobb will easily make the same power as Dinan Stage 4 for 1/4 the cost and offer you more options and better future expansion upgradability.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:26 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe53 View Post
I'm upgrading my 2008 335 to this package. It advertises up to 440 HP, which sounds insane (meant for racing, and illegal for road use in several states) but I'm in Canada. My track days are over, but I was wondering if anyone has experience with this package? Any advice?

I was considering getting a new M4, but the cost was prohibitive. The S4 Dinan upgrade costs about 1/8, and the power exceeds the M4 ( and a Porsche 911 Carrera, for that matter).

Why, that's quite a purchase! Dinan is well known for a number of things.

Now, let's not compare to JB4 and Cobb - have you looked at them? Their numbers are all wrong because they compute horsepower and torque at the wheel, not the flywheel, making their numbers lower.

In other words, JB4's Meth 460 hp and 460 ft. lb torque must be uprated to compare with Dinan. Yes. Converting to the Dinan computation, that's 541 hp and 541 ft lb torque at the flywheel.

Also, once installed the Dinan tune is locked into your ride! It's very secure, and cannot be used on any other vehicle, or resold when you sell your car. Most people assume, rightly so, that tuned used cars have had more wear than stock, and possibly saw abuse, so are worth less in the marketplace.

You will certainly see a boost in power with Dinan! Best o'luck, and please, enjoy what you're getting into!

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 09-12-2014 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:17 PM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback, folks.

I'm not looking for bragging rights. There are always quicker/more powerful cars out there. But I could find very little on the net for the Dinan S4 package, in terms of performance specs. The last I looked, the S3 Dinan pretty much equalled the last generation M3 V8, for a lot less investment. I figured the S4 was worth the gamble.

The car is in the shop as I speak, and I will let you know my impressions when I get it back next week.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
Most people assume, rightly so, that tuned used cars have had more wear than stock, and possibly saw abuse, so are worth less in the marketplace..
You are not suggesting that someone would/should/could install Cobb or JB4 and then remove it when it's time to sell and not tell a subsequent purchaser are you?
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:37 PM
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You are not suggesting that someone would/should/could install Cobb or JB4 and then remove it when it's time to sell and not tell a subsequent purchaser are you?

Heavens no! Of course the savvy buyer might check the flash counter for evidence of unauthorized writes, and keep a sharp eye on certain plastic parts that must be pulled to access the ECU.


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  #9  
Old 09-14-2014, 08:57 AM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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If I still owned my 335i Dinan S3, I would go with the upgrade S4 without hesitation. Never a problem with warranty, performance, or resale. Never worried about hiding it either, as I proudly displayed it, under the hood(CAI) and on the trunk lid(emblem). Oh yeah, never has to scramble looking for special gas additives, just plain old 91/93 octane.

Cobb, is also a good alternative to look at as well if you are starting out new.
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Old 09-14-2014, 05:09 PM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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Thanks daytrader. That is encouraging info.

Hopefully the (ethanol-free) Shell 91 octane will suffice for the S4. There is 93 octane from Esso available, but only from select stations.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:58 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe53 View Post
I'm upgrading my 2008 335 to this package. It advertises up to 440 HP, which sounds insane (meant for racing, and illegal for road use in several states) but I'm in Canada. My track days are over, but I was wondering if anyone has experience with this package? Any advice?

I was considering getting a new M4, but the cost was prohibitive. The S4 Dinan upgrade costs about 1/8, and the power exceeds the M4 ( and a Porsche 911 Carrera, for that matter).

OK, this thread borders on cognitive dissonance. joe53, all the tunes run just fine on 91 octane - don't worry about it. But you'll have more power if you boost octane or install a FMIC for higher charge density. NOTE: FMIC has noticeable effect in hot weather, not so much in cool.

The market leader is JB4, for some pretty good reasons. Ease of use, undetectability, Meth capability, EZ map changes; steering wheel button controlled. It is hardware and firmware, a chip installed in the ECU enclosure. Can run a USB cable to laptop for logging, low level parameter changes, and firmware upgrades. Does not remove stock map and can deactivate chip [go back to stock] almost instantly with couple o'button pushes. Easily changes maps while driving at any speed. There's more - check the web site and N54TECH

1st runner up goes to Cobb - remaps ECU but retains stock map in dongle memory. Increments the flash counter, so can be detected by any who look - think: dealer. No Meth. ECU map change means stopping your ride, finding the dongle, plugging in, wait awhile to change map, put dongle away, drive. Does not have control of options like JB4.

2nd runner up goes to Dinan - remaps ECU but does NOT retain stock map - you can't go back. You can't remove it. You can't change maps. No Meth. Being a single purpose tune, does not have options JB4 & Cobb do. Highest price and lowest performance. Generally for those with money to spend who don't want to get into any kind of nitty-gritty; want to set it & forget it.

Oddly, price is lowest for JB4 - mid range for Cobb - much much higher for Dinan.
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And now, some words of wisdom: When you increase power, you highlight suspension deficiencies! Yup, those wimped rear subframe bushings, e-diff [instead of LSD like M3], spaghetti-thin rear sway, rubber bushings, iron suspension arms, and more are bad enough in a stock ride - you really won't like how it skips on bumps and skitters in corners with more thrust. To wit: Suspension First - Power Later You won't be sorry, and when able to put power to the pavement as God intended [M3], may find you don't need more power. Fine suspension performance....intoxicating....
.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 09-14-2014 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:14 AM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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CWDB:

Thanks for your thoughts, and info on 91 octane.

I made my decision to go with Dinan because it is installed and supported by my local BMW dealer. I will report on any suspension deficiencies, but since I'm not taking this car to the track, I wonder if they will bother me in daily usage. I can always add suspension upgrades later, in any event.

I am not a racer, nor a stoplight dragster. I just wanted to boost my HP for certain highway situations (such as leaving tail-gaters in the dust, or passing tractor-trailers).

I suppose one might question why I would spend so much to upgrade a daily driver, but there it is. I detect no "cognitive dissonance" in my decision process.
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:57 AM
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BuraQ BuraQ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe53 View Post
I'm upgrading my 2008 335 to this package. It advertises up to 440 HP, which sounds insane (meant for racing, and illegal for road use in several states) but I'm in Canada. My track days are over, but I was wondering if anyone has experience with this package? Any advice?

I was considering getting a new M4, but the cost was prohibitive. The S4 Dinan upgrade costs about 1/8, and the power exceeds the M4 ( and a Porsche 911 Carrera, for that matter).
Perhaps you may not know this. 440 HP is engine crank power rated by DInan, it is not power to the wheels. The HP to the wheels is like 370ish. You will still get walked all over by an M4 and a Cobb PROtuned flash for less and you have control over your cars tuning. Dinan will do shnit for you to correct any tuning issues you may have for your car

Dinan mods are ok just over priced, but I have no complaint as I have torchered tested them for the N54. So, no complaint here, its top quality, other than being over priced. Their tuning is not worth the shnit on toilet paper
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2014, 08:55 AM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Originally Posted by joe53 View Post
CWDB:

Thanks for your thoughts, and info on 91 octane.

I made my decision to go with Dinan because it is installed and supported by my local BMW dealer. I will report on any suspension deficiencies, but since I'm not taking this car to the track, I wonder if they will bother me in daily usage. I can always add suspension upgrades later, in any event.

I am not a racer, nor a stoplight dragster. I just wanted to boost my HP for certain highway situations (such as leaving tail-gaters in the dust, or passing tractor-trailers).

I suppose one might question why I would spend so much to upgrade a daily driver, but there it is. I detect no "cognitive dissonance" in my decision process.

Well, you'll enjoy a very diff experience with much improved suspension performance, at every speed. No need to exceed posted speed limits - the feeling of confidence and effortless precision is always there, like M3.

You must ask yourself: If that dealer supports Dinan - you should be aware that not every dealer does, and BMW severed their relationship with Dinan years back - exactly what support are you getting? If anything goes wrong due to Dinan's stuff, it falls to Dinan's insurance company to pay the dealer for his work. Any Indy does exactly the same. Install? Dude! It's software - don't let them charge you for what every Cobb owner routinely does himself. OTOH, since you're chompin' on a bullet and forkin' over high toll, you already have paid for that. See, high toll's the source of cognitive dissonance.

I believe you'll find dealer support is more in the sales arena - Dinan's price is much much higher in no small part 'cause dealer gets a hefty commission t'flog that stuff. But hey, if you don't mind paying a large premium for Dinan, there you are.

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 09-15-2014 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 09-15-2014, 10:28 AM
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Dinan vs < anything else >

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Old 09-15-2014, 11:34 AM
joe53 joe53 is offline
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Well, thanks for the trashing of Dinan.

But which part of my OP did you not understand? All I asked for was specs and/or experience from those who had tried the S4, as there is little out there. I could find nothing to support your claims that the hp was not measured at the wheel. Feel free to give me authoritative references to support that claim.

I had already purchased it when I first posted. It is supported by that particular BMW dealer (but not most). I was told it could be tuned/de-tuned by them easily. I'm not aware of any other after-market tuners that BMW supports in my area. In any event, I wasn't asking about alternatives.

I've already stated I can't afford an M4. To me, the S4 upgrade was the next best thing available here, for a lot less.
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:38 AM
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I think the reason you are finding very little on the Dinan tune is because it isn't that popular for all the reasons that have been covered here. Feel free to come back on and give us your opinions and we will start gathering info. As for me, I will stick with my Cobb.
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Old 09-15-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
The market leader is JB4, for some pretty good reasons. Ease of use, undetectability, Meth capability, EZ map changes; steering wheel button controlled. It is hardware and firmware, a chip installed in the ECU enclosure. Can run a USB cable to laptop for logging, low level parameter changes, and firmware upgrades. Does not remove stock map and can deactivate chip [go back to stock] almost instantly with couple o'button pushes. Easily changes maps while driving at any speed. There's more - check the web site and N54TECH

.
This seems inconsistent with your prior representation that you do not encourage owners to hide their JB4 from subsequent purchasers. Surely you are not encouraging owners to hide their JB4 from BMW or state authorities, are you? And tell me again why hiding things is a good thing? Oh, right, you've never answered that question so you can't tell me again.

Tell me again why you encourage and use a product that is illegal for street use in the state of your residency, California? I don't know, but can we presume that it would also be illegal for street use in every state that has adopted California standards? Those states (as I appreciate from a quick internet search) being New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, Vermont, New York, Maine, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Oregon, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Florida, and New Mexico? Let me know if JB4 is legal in those states, would you? And apparently EPA has adopted California standards beginning in 2016. So let me know if JB4 would be legal anywhere in the US in 2016, would you? And tell me again, where is the evidence that JB4 is the "market leader?" I mean other than in your own mind?
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:00 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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This seems inconsistent with your prior representation that you do not encourage owners to hide their JB4 from subsequent purchasers. Surely you are not encouraging owners to hide their JB4 from BMW or state authorities, are you? And tell me again why hiding things is a good thing? Oh, right, you've never answered that question so you can't tell me again.

Tell me again why you encourage and use a product that is illegal for street use in the state of your residency, California? I don't know, but can we presume that it would also be illegal for street use in every state that has adopted California standards? Those states (as I appreciate from a quick internet search) being New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, Vermont, New York, Maine, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Oregon, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Florida, and New Mexico? Let me know if JB4 is legal in those states, would you? And apparently EPA has adopted California standards beginning in 2016. So let me know if JB4 would be legal anywhere in the US in 2016, would you? And tell me again, where is the evidence that JB4 is the "market leader?" I mean other than in your own mind?

Y'see Joe? Cognitive dissonance.

JB4 is 'legal' everywhere BMW is sold - blip to Map 1. Control is a beautiful thing.

.

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Old 09-15-2014, 02:03 PM
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The horse is beyond beaten to death ....


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Old 09-15-2014, 02:57 PM
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The horse is beyond beaten to death ....


I couldn't agree more. As long as Cal climbs up on his horse, I'll climb up on mine. You will note that I don't spontaneously bring up this issue. Cal is the one who seems to feel the continuous need to bash Dinan.
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
Y'see Joe? Cognitive dissonance.

JB4 is 'legal' everywhere BMW is sold - blip to Map 1. Control is a beautiful thing.

.
No, I don't think so. I think the mere installation is illegal on a street legal vehicle. I believe that is why BMS doesn't sell the JB4 in California. Guess what, Dinan is legal everywhere, no "hiding" necessary by changing maps or removing it. Transparency and legality all the time, what a beautiful thing.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:32 PM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Originally Posted by joe53 View Post
Well, thanks for the trashing of Dinan.

But which part of my OP did you not understand? All I asked for was specs and/or experience from those who had tried the S4, as there is little out there. I could find nothing to support your claims that the hp was not measured at the wheel. Feel free to give me authoritative references to support that claim.

I had already purchased it when I first posted. It is supported by that particular BMW dealer (but not most). I was told it could be tuned/de-tuned by them easily. I'm not aware of any other after-market tuners that BMW supports in my area. In any event, I wasn't asking about alternatives.

I've already stated I can't afford an M4. To me, the S4 upgrade was the next best thing available here, for a lot less.
You seem to already know this but I will post anyway for others that might be in your shoes, and less knowledgable...

If one cannot do an M4 at this point in time, staying with the N54 is a great idea. Adding a few hardware mods helps longevity concerns and helps the software part of the tune get to max output. Go with which ever tune you are comfortable with, getting some opinions here is a good idea but should be considered with a grain of salt, ie some here might have axes to grind, or some might be blind fanboys, but with that said some info here can be helpful. I suggest after boiling things down to a couple good choices, call them otp, and get a feel for what they offer and how they can best serve your expectations. With the few I have spoken to, I got an idea rather quickly if their tunes were for me or not. And, as it appears like you have pretty much done, visit websites(if they have them). Then make some calls and pick your poison. IMO, I like Dinan and most recently Cobb for what they have achieved in a relatively short period of time, but both have some +/-'s, only you can judge what works for you. Good luck and have fun.
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Old 09-15-2014, 03:36 PM
daytrader daytrader is offline
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Guess what, Dinan is legal everywhere, no "hiding" necessary by changing maps or removing it. Transparency and legality all the time, what a beautiful thing.
Stop teasing us with the photo of the new Porsche!
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:03 PM
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CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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No, I don't think so. I think the mere installation is illegal on a street legal vehicle. I believe that is why BMS doesn't sell the JB4 in California. Guess what, Dinan is legal everywhere, no "hiding" necessary by changing maps or removing it. Transparency and legality all the time, what a beautiful thing.

Sonofagun, I gotta turn mine back in!

Why do you think installation is illegal?
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