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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #26  
Old 02-02-2013, 08:08 PM
dnaer dnaer is offline
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Just in case you missed this deal, Pep Boys has another coupon for Mobil 1 ESP for $7.00/quart. Not quite as good a deal but it is good until 2/28/13.
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:29 AM
digitaldav digitaldav is offline
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Thanks for the coupon.. Picked up 10qts. of Mobil 1 5W30 ESP (LL-04 compliant) and 2 fram filters.
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  #28  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:37 AM
digitaldav digitaldav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaer View Post
Just in case you missed this deal, Pep Boys has another coupon for Mobil 1 ESP for $7.00/quart. Not quite as good a deal but it is good until 2/28/13.
Where is this coupon? I would like to pick up a few more since our "d's" take more than the 5 qts I got with the oil change coupon.
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  #29  
Old 02-03-2013, 01:29 PM
dnaer dnaer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaldav View Post
Where is this coupon? I would like to pick up a few more since our "d's" take more than the 5 qts I got with the oil change coupon.
It is on Pep Boys site under the savings icon
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2013, 02:26 PM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaer View Post
Just in case you missed this deal, Pep Boys has another coupon for Mobil 1 ESP for $7.00/quart. Not quite as good a deal but it is good until 2/28/13.
This is still more than I pay for the Castrol SLX from the dealer with my BMWCCA discount.
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  #31  
Old 02-03-2013, 10:42 PM
digitaldav digitaldav is offline
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Originally Posted by dnaer View Post
It is on Pep Boys site under the savings icon
Got it.. Thanks
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  #32  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:02 PM
kungpao kungpao is offline
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no one mentioned the PDF in post #20. Is that legit?
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  #33  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:15 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kungpao View Post
no one mentioned the PDF in post #20. Is that legit?
I'm sure it was correct at the time it was published (footer of the document says it was copyrighted by BMW AG). No telling if its been updated since then or if its purpose is to list EVERY oil that meets the LL-04 spec.
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  #34  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:20 AM
gulfcoastbeemer gulfcoastbeemer is offline
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I purchased Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (LL-04) from an outfit in Ohio: http://avlube.com

The stuff they distribute comes in a one liter bottle.
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  #35  
Old 09-27-2014, 01:22 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
ard seems to have misquoted the book and left out a very important word!

Here is a copy & paste from that document in post #18:

The inclusion of the work "One" should certainly be read to mean there are others...

I didnt misquote. I still stand by the accuracy of my post and the quote. You simply chose some other text.

I agree "one such" means there MAY in fact other oils that meet LL specs. It does not mean that any and all such oils are approved.

I know my stance on reading of this legal document is hard for some to digest- but when one is able to sway bluebee, that should cause people to pause.

Finally, I am switching to M1 ESP with the next change, as I am out of BMW warranty- just saw this on a perusal of old oil threads....
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  #36  
Old 09-28-2014, 06:06 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I didnt misquote. I still stand by the accuracy of my post and the quote. You simply chose some other text.

I agree "one such" means there MAY in fact other oils that meet LL specs. It does not mean that any and all such oils are approved.

I know my stance on reading of this legal document is hard for some to digest- but when one is able to sway bluebee, that should cause people to pause.

Finally, I am switching to M1 ESP with the next change, as I am out of BMW warranty- just saw this on a perusal of old oil threads....
Having a Mercedes spec on the oil bottle doesn't make it an official "approved" oil by Mercedes? There would need to be a list of such oils published by Mercedes, no?

I would prefer an oil that has little to no chance of breaking down and vaporizing, as a possible contributor to CBU. As I recall, Castrol was one of the first brands to call their type III (made from mineral oil) base stock "synthetic" while Mobil and others were still making type IV (made from ethyl alcohol etc.) synthetics. Nowadays, I don't know who makes what....

PL
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  #37  
Old 09-28-2014, 10:07 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Having a Mercedes spec on the oil bottle doesn't make it an official "approved" oil by Mercedes? There would need to be a list of such oils published by Mercedes, no?

I would prefer an oil that has little to no chance of breaking down and vaporizing, as a possible contributor to CBU. As I recall, Castrol was one of the first brands to call their type III (made from mineral oil) base stock "synthetic" while Mobil and others were still making type IV (made from ethyl alcohol etc.) synthetics. Nowadays, I don't know who makes what....

PL
I am not familiar with Mercedes specs. If the mercedes spec is a complete specification on the oil, in terms of something other than just "LL" ( long life, or how long it can go) then perhaps the MB spec is adequate ....
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2014, 10:58 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Here is a BMW document that lists all of the oils meeting LL04 at the time it was printed (12/2006):
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktio...hmentId=701830

I'm not aware of such a list from BMW here in the States, but I believe this list should put the discussion to bed about the use of any brand LL04 oil. The same of course applies to MB229.51

Last edited by d geek; 09-28-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2014, 01:30 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
, but I believe this list should put the discussion to bed about the use of any brand LL04 oil. T
Hardly

Any LL04 will be fine. Just not approved by BMW in the USA.
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  #40  
Old 09-29-2014, 01:46 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Hardly

Any LL04 will be fine. Just not approved by BMW in the USA.
Unless you have something in writing from BMWUSA that clearly states that the ONLY LL04 oil approved for use in US BMW diesels is Castrol's (and I don't mean your own convoluted interpretation of the owner's manual), then I will challenge you every time. We can't allow disinformation to be spread around this subforum.

Let me ask you this: Why would a motor oil company go through the hassle and expense of getting their product certified as BMW LL04 (or MB 229.51 or VW 507) if the product could only be used a liter at a time as top-off oil?

Please provide that info from BMWUSA that contradicts that of BMW AG I shared above, as well as any rationale that would explain such a contradiction, and I will go around and delete or edit my posts. Thanks.

Last edited by d geek; 10-01-2014 at 10:02 AM.
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  #41  
Old 09-29-2014, 02:23 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Here is a letter from BMW to Bardahl approving one of their products for BMW LL04 usage:
http://www.bardahl-ap.com/pdfs/oem-a...-BMW-LL-04.pdf
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  #42  
Old 10-01-2014, 07:12 AM
d geek d geek is offline
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FWIW:
I contacted Mobil via http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ontact_Us.aspx
Here is the transcript of our emails:

> I am a auto enthusiast forum moderator and am trying to resolve a dispute
regarding BMW oil specifications. The question is this: Would any oil that meets
BMW LL04 be approved for use in their modern diesels here in the USA, or can
they restrict it to one oil manufacturer? Is BMW LL04 a comprehensive
specification, or does it simply designate that the oil can be used for extended
drain periods?

>From: Mobilproducts <mobilproducts@ourdataworks.com>
To: xxx@xxx.com
Sent: Tue, Sep 30, 2014 9:20 am
Subject: Re: Warranty issues

Thank you for your inquiry.
I am not sure of all of the specifics for the LL 04 approval,
but I can say that our ESP Formula 5w-30 carries that approval from BMW.



-MJ


>Thanks for the prompt reply. Is your ESP 5w-30 approved for a complete drain and refill in a BMW LL04 application, or just as a top-off oil? In other words, are there any restrictions on this oil in the BMW LL04 application?

thanks again
-Xxx

>There are no restrictions.
Thank you for contacting ExxonMobil.
If you have further questions you may contact 1-800-ASK-MOBIL.

-MJ
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  #43  
Old 10-01-2014, 08:55 AM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
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What would be the point of listing approved oils if they can only be used for a top up? Is there any car manufacturer on the planet willing to say that their engines burn so much oil that they need to make a list of approved top up oils?
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  #44  
Old 10-01-2014, 10:02 AM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
What would be the point of listing approved oils if they can only be used for a top up? Is there any car manufacturer on the planet willing to say that their engines burn so much oil that they need to make a list of approved top up oils?
excellent point
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  #45  
Old 10-01-2014, 10:37 AM
totitan totitan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Hardly

Any LL04 will be fine. Just not approved by BMW in the USA.
"Don't confuse me with the facts because my mind is made up"
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  #46  
Old 10-01-2014, 12:15 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
What would be the point of listing approved oils if they can only be used for a top up? Is there any car manufacturer on the planet willing to say that their engines burn so much oil that they need to make a list of approved top up oils?
It is a legal issue.

Pursuant to Moss Magnussen a manufacturer (anything, not just cars) cannot REQUIRE you to use an branded accessory or maintenance material unless they can PROVE it is required for your car to function.

So this leads you to "BMW should just tell you what oils meet there spec", correct?

and if they didnt- if they said "you can only use BMW oil" then BMW would have to pay. Right?

BMW DOES PAY FOR OIL. They cover maintenance up to 50k. So they CAN in fact recommend only BMW oil.

Furthermore, they dont want to have to give away top off oil. So they have created a separate spec for top off, to allow you to use non BMW oil and avoid a M-M violation.

Only in the USA.

ROW has entirely different specs.

Does this make ANY engineering sense? Nope. It is driven by lawyers. There are many oils that are as good as or better than BMW oil...my point is reading the document using structured comprehension (like a lawyer) and NOT casually with "what they ought to say' will result in this conclusion.
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  #47  
Old 10-01-2014, 12:43 PM
montr montr is offline
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Starting 1 January 2015, BMW NA oil supplier will be Shell instead of Castrol. All dealers in NA will be using Shell products instead of Castrol.

I do my own oil change. I get the cheapest LL04 spec oil. I have used the following brands: Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, Lubro-Moly and Valvoline
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Last edited by montr; 10-01-2014 at 12:48 PM.
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  #48  
Old 10-01-2014, 12:44 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
It is a legal issue.

Pursuant to Moss Magnussen a manufacturer (anything, not just cars) cannot REQUIRE you to use an branded accessory or maintenance material unless they can PROVE it is required for your car to function.

So this leads you to "BMW should just tell you what oils meet there spec", correct?

and if they didnt- if they said "you can only use BMW oil" then BMW would have to pay. Right?

BMW DOES PAY FOR OIL. They cover maintenance up to 50k. So they CAN in fact recommend only BMW oil.

Furthermore, they dont want to have to give away top off oil. So they have created a separate spec for top off, to allow you to use non BMW oil and avoid a M-M violation.

Only in the USA.

ROW has entirely different specs.

Does this make ANY engineering sense? Nope. It is driven by lawyers. There are many oils that are as good as or better than BMW oil...my point is reading the document using structured comprehension (like a lawyer) and NOT casually with "what they ought to say' will result in this conclusion.
There is not a separate spec for top off. The only spec is LL04.
Get back to us when you have a response from BMW stating that Castrol is the only LL04 oil approved for a complete oil change.

What is the "separate spec" for the top-off oil called?
What are the "entirely different specs" used in the ROW called?
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  #49  
Old 10-01-2014, 12:47 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montr View Post
Starting 1 January 2015, BMW NA oil supplier will be Shell instead of Castrol. All dealers in NA will be using Shell products instead of Castrol.
Thanks for sharing that. Further proof that Castrol is not the only oil suitable for BMWs.
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  #50  
Old 10-01-2014, 02:30 PM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
It is a legal issue.

Pursuant to Moss Magnussen a manufacturer (anything, not just cars) cannot REQUIRE you to use an branded accessory or maintenance material unless they can PROVE it is required for your car to function.

So this leads you to "BMW should just tell you what oils meet there spec", correct?

and if they didnt- if they said "you can only use BMW oil" then BMW would have to pay. Right?

BMW DOES PAY FOR OIL. They cover maintenance up to 50k. So they CAN in fact recommend only BMW oil.
So, after 50k miles or 5 years, what oils are "approved" for a complete fill?
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