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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:02 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
Comfort access has nothing to do with this issue!! Comfort access is just another way to actuate the door lock/unlock button. Comfort Access is an option on the F30; but all F30 cars, whether or not comfort access, have keyless start. In fact, there is no place to put the key fob. So it is pretty easy to leave the car without shutting it down.

This is a potentially lethal problem and a serious liability for BMW. It's only a matter of time before one of these cars is left running in a closed garage that's attached to a house, causing death by CO poisoning.

That the car can be left locked with the engine running and no key or person inside is indefensible.
I have to agree....

Quote:
Originally Posted by m8o View Post
I have BMW's equiv of Comfort Access on my JCW and I was sure that when I did this and walked away far enough that the key FOB lost wireless touch with the car, the car shut off. :shrug:
....and this is the answer to the problem.
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sunny5280 View Post
What does it do when you try to exit the car while the engine is running and the key is in your possession?
Mine gives a visual and audible warning, but if I were in a hurry, it would be easy to miss both.
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  #28  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
It's only a matter of time before one of these cars is left running in a closed garage that's attached to a house, causing death by CO poisoning.
Let's hope it happens before the owner breeds. This way we get the benefit of natural selection.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:34 PM
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Let's hope it happens before the owner breeds. This way we get the benefit of natural selection.
hmmm....which is worse, the distracted individual who makes a mistake or the professional engineering staff who doesn't foresee the possibility?
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  #30  
Old 01-29-2013, 08:46 PM
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The car does give an audible warning and message on dash when the key goes out of range, but it is easy to miss. A few weeks ago I took my wife to the doctor. It was a nice day so I decided to take my jacket off after getting in the car. I tossed the jacket on the garage floor on my way out. When we got to the doctor I shut the car off and tried to lock it. The car would not lock. I had left the key in my jacket pocket!

Ended up having to call my sister to pick me up, take me home to the key, and then back to the doctor. Definately a mistake I will never make again.
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  #31  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:45 AM
trinipirate trinipirate is offline
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I've done this a couple times in my 1st week of ownership. Thankfully I saw the lights were on too long then it hit me that I didn't turn off the engine. I don't have comfort access though.
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  #32  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
...which is worse, the distracted individual who makes a mistake or the professional engineering staff who doesn't foresee the possibility?
Easy: The individual who operates a fairly powerful, nearly two-ton car while distracted and fails to take responsibility for his own bad decisions.

The design of the car allows drivers to choose what meets their individual needs and preferences, such as warming up the car on a cold day with the doors locked. Allowing this does not make the car unreasonably unsafe for its intended use (the product liability standard in a nutshell).

Freedom/choice begets responsibility. Not every bad thing which occurs is the fault of someone else. We need to collectively put our big boy pants on and stop expecting manufacturers to protect us from our own stupidity.

I appreciate you feel differently.
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  #33  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Easy: The individual who operates a fairly powerful, nearly two-ton car while distracted and fails to take responsibility for his own bad decisions.

The design of the car allows drivers to choose what meets their individual needs and preferences, such as warming up the car on a cold day with the doors locked. Allowing this does not make the car unreasonably unsafe for its intended use (the product liability standard in a nutshell).

Freedom/choice begets responsibility. Not every bad thing which occurs is the fault of someone else. We need to collectively put our big boy pants on and stop expecting manufacturers to protect us from our own stupidity.

I appreciate you feel differently.
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Totally agree. I too do not like rules or laws that are akin to requiring everyone to wear diapers because of a few people who can't help messing themselves.

Although allowing the car to run without keys also protects those who get out on the road without them...really bad news if the cars cut out on the freeway.
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  #34  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:10 AM
sr5959 sr5959 is online now
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Originally Posted by BruinsBMW View Post
Mine gives a visual and audible warning, but if I were in a hurry, it would be easy to miss both.
Yes same on F30, but if you're getting out in a hurry in a noisy environment the warnings are not much use as they're inside the car. They should set it to turn off after a few minutes idling as they do with the radio.

As someone else pointed out this could be very dangerous in a garage, and it's new technology not many people are accustomed to yet.
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  #35  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sr5959 View Post
Yes same on F30, but if you're getting out in a hurry in a noisy environment the warnings are not much use as they're inside the car. They should set it to turn off after a few minutes idling as they do with the radio.

As someone else pointed out this could be very dangerous in a garage, and it's new technology not many people are accustomed to yet.
Yeah, but you're just a worthless, irresponsible, slug who deserves to die.
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2013, 01:34 PM
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Carbon monoxide poisoning is too 'nice'. You just get groggy, sleepy, then 'fall asleep' never to wake again. Darwinism should have made it more of a brutal death than a slow slumber to the grave. Proof Darwin was wrong.
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  #37  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Yeah, but you're just a worthless, irresponsible, slug who deserves to die.
I hugely appreciate good sarcasm, but this is not one of them. I don't want to jump on the soapbox (it itches REALLY badly) because we are not in PoliSci forum. I will give you just one example why Elk is right.

Short intro ... There are many theories on why all the bad things came upon this world, but one of the very first ones (at least of the official ones) is still the most correct one - humans cannot help themselves believing that they can, in fact, have a cake and eat it too. That's in our DNA and little can be done about it. The REAL problem comes when we believe we have a RIGHT to have a cake and eat it to. And if it is not possible, than make it possible by making somebody else pay for the second cake I gottaright! to.

Finally, the example I was talking about. The shortest route to my work is 4.4 miles. In a normal world it would take about 10 minutes to get there considering the roads. I do not take this road, but about 5.7 miles long route that takes 15 minutes - that's because they are all secondary roads and shortcuts with speed limit 25 or 35. Now, WHY do I take longer route on crappier roads? Because driving 4.4 miles on 35 and 50 limit roads will take me at least 15 min or more to get there. And why is that?

Because we cannot let idiots hurt or kill themselves and thus make roads basically unusable to skilled drivers, that's why. We make them unusable not only with absurd speed limits for the road size, but with littering them with every device known to modern man that will stop or slow down the traffic instead of making it flow. And why do we do that?

Because we cannot let idiots hurt/kill themselves. You've got it.

Now tell me you don't have the same problem with roads in your area ... and I have a nice bridge to sell you at good price. This is just ONE example, there are many, many in everyday life left where you will be paying for somebody else's second cake, often without even knowing it. I think it is time to stop.
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Last edited by Mark K; 01-30-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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  #38  
Old 01-30-2013, 02:48 PM
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Yeah, but you're just a worthless, irresponsible, slug who deserves to die.
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  #39  
Old 01-30-2013, 03:08 PM
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I personally prefer a key start ignition. It's simple and effective. I still don't understand the benefit of a keyless start.
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  #40  
Old 01-30-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Yeah, but you're just a worthless, irresponsible, slug who deserves to die.
I am, I am. I only wish I was a keyboard macho man like Elk...I bet he cut the seatbelts out of his car and threw them on the floor of the dealership when he collected his car...
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  #41  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sr5959 View Post
Yes it did. Glad I only left it a few minutes not overnight!

Just to explain the kind of situation how this can happen, it was pouring with rain, and as I parked in a noisy area with a lot of traffic I just saw my friend arriving separately across the street so waved and jumped out, concentrating on getting my umbrella open. This is why I missed it.

I still think there should be some kind of warning beep or something for this.
There is a warning... as soon as you open the door, the car warns you the engine is still running.

You just choose to ignore it

But I do agree that if the car is not moving and the doors are lock AND the key is out of RFID range, the engine should shut off.

Last edited by bzcat; 01-30-2013 at 04:22 PM.
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:55 PM
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I personally prefer a key start ignition. It's simple and effective. I still don't understand the benefit of a keyless start.
CA+keyless start allows people to keep their keys in the pockets or purses.
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2013, 05:17 PM
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I have owned 3 different cars with the push button ignition. The potential problems aren't really any different than traditional key ignitions.

Over the years, I can't even remember how many times my wife called me up and told me that she locked her keys in the car, and the car is still running. At least 3 or 4 times. One time it was 90 miles away, and I was really pissed. I had to go get her. Another time she locked both my kids in the car with the engine running. The kids were only 1 and 3 years old. I had a 45 minute drive to go get them.

Believe it or not, my wife is actually really intelligent, and has several college degrees (you wouldn't think this after reading it, but she does).

Also, do you honestly think that people never left their cars running in the garage with keys in the ignition? Used to happen all the time way before these push button start ignitions ever came out.

At least with CA, it's impossible to lock your keys in the car. Plus, I honestly don't know how you could not notice the warnings when attempting to leave the car with the engine still running. Again, with CA you get a warning, with the old style keys in the ignition, no warning at all...
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m8o View Post
I have BMW's equiv of Comfort Access on my JCW and I was sure that when I did this and walked away far enough that the key FOB lost wireless touch with the car, the car shut off. :shrug:
What happens when you are driving and the FOB runs out of power? Your car shuts off?
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  #45  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:15 PM
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What happens when you are driving and the FOB runs out of power? Your car shuts off?
No. Because what M80 describes is not how it works on a BMW at all. Once the engine is running, it stays on (or, with A/S/S, "ready") until you shut it off by pushing the start/stop button. If the key fob leaves the car while the engine is running, it won't shut down by itself. The engine may stop under the A/S/S protocol, but it will reactivate and the car can be driven indefinitely without the key fob. It just can't be restarted. That's logical. You don't want the car quitting in traffic just because someone inadvertently left with the key.

The combination of A/S/S and keyless start creates situations in which the car's system state is not entirely obvious. The engine may be in "ready" state under the A/S/S protocol when you put the car in Park or apply the parking brake. What happens next isn't entirely clear to me, but it does seem to be possible to exit the car, lock it, and leave the engine in "ready", to be self-started when the A/S/S protocol requires it.

That's unacceptably dangerous, as evidenced by the number of cases reported in these blogs (and the F10 blogs too) of people returning to the car to find the engine running.
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  #46  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raleedy View Post
No. Because what M80 describes is not how it works on a BMW at all. Once the engine is running, it stays on (or, with A/S/S, "ready") until you shut it off by pushing the start/stop button. If the key fob leaves the car while the engine is running, it won't shut down by itself. The engine may stop under the A/S/S protocol, but it will reactivate and the car can be driven indefinitely without the key fob. It just can't be restarted. That's logical. You don't want the car quitting in traffic just because someone inadvertently left with the key.

The combination of A/S/S and keyless start creates situations in which the car's system state is not entirely obvious. The engine may be in "ready" state under the A/S/S protocol when you put the car in Park or apply the parking brake. What happens next isn't entirely clear to me, but it does seem to be possible to exit the car, lock it, and leave the engine in "ready", to be self-started when the A/S/S protocol requires it.

That's unacceptably dangerous, as evidenced by the number of cases reported in these blogs (and the F10 blogs too) of people returning to the car to find the engine running.
As I referenced earlier regarding my non-CA E90's operation, I think it would make the most sense for Comfort Access not to operate when the motor is running. If a person wants to lock the car with the motor running have it so that a conscious decision has to be made and he has to use the fob to lock the doors.

With a set up where the car shuts off when the fob is beyond a certain range I'm having a little bit of a hard time envisioning a circumstance where a person with the key would walk away from the car in traffic, thus causing the car to shut off in the midst of traffic.




What should we do with all these stupid people in the world who have to have a curling iron that turns itself off so that they don't burn down their houses? Or those dumbos who need a safety on their handguns and rifles to keep them from shooting people they don't mean to or in the case of one poor sap this week, shooting off his d*ck (I guess that one takes care of the natural selection issue). Wow, these human being people surely are a lazy, dumb lot, aren't they?
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Last edited by tturedraider; 01-30-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:47 PM
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I can stop the car, put it on neutral, remove the keyfob, restart it right away, step out, lock the door with the keyfob. No warning except the seatbelt light. No comfort access.
What is that for? No idea.
I can probably drive It like that, without the key.

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Last edited by 55; 01-30-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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  #48  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 View Post
I can stop the car, put it on neutral, remove the keyfob, restart it right away, step out, lock the door with the keyfob. No warning except the seatbelt light. No comfort access.
What is that for? No idea.
I can probably drive It like that, without the key.

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If you drive without the key, you don't get a BIG FAT WARNING message telling you so? I don't have my F30 yet, but my current car screams at me if I attempt to drive away without the key. I just did that the other day. I started the car, realized I forgot something, went into the kitchen, put my keys down on the kitchen island, walked out the door without my keys, got into my car, and then it kept barking at me. It was clear I didn't have the keys, so I went back in the house to get them, and all was well.
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Last edited by krash; 01-30-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:03 PM
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If you drive without the key, you don't get a BIG FAT WARNING Message telling you so?
Will try

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  #50  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:16 PM
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Will try

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I'm actually interested in knowing what happens, because this is a pretty serious design flaw if you can just drive away while your keys are in the kitchen.

If the car is smart enough to not let you lock your keys in the car or trunk, it should be smart enough to give you frckn warning message that you're driving away without your key fob.
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