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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > M Series > F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)

F80/F82/F83 M3 and M4 (2015 - Current)
F80 BMW M3 sedan, F82 BMW M4 coupe and F83 M4 convertible forum. This 5th generation M3 and all new M4 features a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine (engine code S55) 425hp and 406lbs of torque! Heavy use of light weight materials makes this generation lighter and faster then the outgoing E9x M3.

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  #1  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:21 AM
DavidM1975 DavidM1975 is offline
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Next gen M3 and M4?

Has anyone seen this yet? Looks like M3 coming in June 2014 with M4 to follow. Very interesting!

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11301315...15-hp-30-liter
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:44 AM
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The best news there is the apparent shedding of 300 pounds.

The boys at ///M need to return to the roots that made them ultra special from their inception.

The 1 M proved they recognized their grass roots enthusiast still yearns for something lighter weight and precision based.

If they can pull it off with the next gen M3 it only bodes well for the future M2 which should be even lighter.

Those prospects will make the highly coveted 1 M more accessible (and possibly affordable) as owners jump ship for the newest toy.

Personally, I'll hold with the current hand I've got, thank you.
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Last edited by IndyMike; 01-31-2013 at 08:45 AM.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:47 AM
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i still think that unless you track it, the M is overpriced (the current gen M3 anyway), given that the 335 actually has 5 more ft-lbs of torque (I believe the M has 295, 335 has 300). I cant imagine being able to use the M to its fullest on backroads, nevermind enough to make up for the 10k difference in price.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:50 AM
energetik9 energetik9 is offline
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I've seen it, but not getting too excited yet. The key to this article is the final sentence that says this is a rendering. Otherwise, the data is consistent with what has been in the press. What they did with the M5 turns me off some, so I am hesitant to expext too much just yet. A new M3 is in my top 3, but I will also shop the new Cayman S, a used 911, and possibly a used GT-R. In the meantime, it's a wait and see. I would spend to much time in speculation.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:51 AM
energetik9 energetik9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
i still think that unless you track it, the M is overpriced (the current gen M3 anyway), given that the 335 actually has 5 more ft-lbs of torque (I believe the M has 295, 335 has 300). I cant imagine being able to use the M to its fullest on backroads, nevermind enough to make up for the 10k difference in price.
Torque numbers on the next gen M3 should approach 400.
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2013, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
i still think that unless you track it, the M is overpriced (the current gen M3 anyway), given that the 335 actually has 5 more ft-lbs of torque (I believe the M has 295, 335 has 300). I cant imagine being able to use the M to its fullest on backroads, nevermind enough to make up for the 10k difference in price.
It's not just the extra 5 lbs that makes the 335 more fun every day...most of the 335 torque is available off idle while the V8 M3 needs to be wrung out to get anything out of it.

I know a guy who had 2 e36 and 2 E46 M3 who went C63 instead of E9x M3. He told me that he likes the ferocity of the C63 which was more in keeping with the E46 M3 "always on edge" persona while the E9x M3 was Milquetoast until you started beating on it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by IndyMike View Post
The best news there is the apparent shedding of 300 pounds.

The boys at ///M need to return to the roots that made them ultra special from their inception.
I agree that the ///M brand needs to get to its roots given the current trend of making everything softer.

However, I very skeptical about the current weight speculation. The e9x M3 was roughly 150lbs heavier than the e9x 335i. The f30 335i weighs roughly same at around 3550lbs. To get to the target number, the ///M engineers have to drop 150lbs from the base 335i. That isn't an easy task given the amount of extra mechanical stuff they have to cram in (e.g. LSD, beefed up suspension, etc.).

I am not holding my breath on this one although any weight reduction will be welcomed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
i still think that unless you track it, the M is overpriced (the current gen M3 anyway), given that the 335 actually has 5 more ft-lbs of torque (I believe the M has 295, 335 has 300). I cant imagine being able to use the M to its fullest on backroads, nevermind enough to make up for the 10k difference in price.
By your definition, even the 335i is overpriced given that the 328i is more than enough for the legal speeds. In fact, all BMWs are overpriced given that a lowly V6 Mustang can keep up with you on the road.


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Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
It's not just the extra 5 lbs that makes the 335 more fun every day...most of the 335 torque is available off idle while the V8 M3 needs to be wrung out to get anything out of it.

I know a guy who had 2 e36 and 2 E46 M3 who went C63 instead of E9x M3. He told me that he likes the ferocity of the C63 which was more in keeping with the E46 M3 "always on edge" persona while the E9x M3 was Milquetoast until you started beating on it.
I don't think I understand your friend's argument. The e36 and e46 M3s lacked more torque than the S65 in the e9x M3, which has a *relatively* flat torque curve compared to the other NA BMW engines. So, he went from a high-rev'ing precision cars to a brute force German muscle car, and I fail to find any connection between the two (besides the country of origin).
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by enigma View Post
However, I very skeptical about the current weight speculation. The e9x M3 was roughly 150lbs heavier than the e9x 335i. The f30 335i weighs roughly same at around 3550lbs. To get to the target number, the ///M engineers have to drop 150lbs from the base 335i.
You should be skeptical - we've heard that weight loss talk from BMW before. It usually comes out to something like: "the engine is 40 lbs lighter, but the car is 200 lbs heavier. We shaved 40 lbs from the car!"
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:21 PM
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You should be skeptical - we've heard that weight loss talk from BMW before. It usually comes out to something like: "the engine is 40 lbs lighter, but the car is 200 lbs heavier. We shaved 40 lbs from the car!"
I agree with what you said.

Since the S55 (the rumored code for the next M3 engine) is most likely based on the N55, I don't see how even the engine will weigh less given the speculated higher compression, rev limits and the additional turbo.

In fact, I can't think of any major component that will be lighter than the base 335i (sans the CF roof which should save about 40-50lbs) without liberal use of exotic materials, which will inevitably push the production cost through the roof.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I don't think I understand your friend's argument. The e36 and e46 M3s lacked more torque than the S65 in the e9x M3, which has a *relatively* flat torque curve compared to the other NA BMW engines. So, he went from a high-rev'ing precision cars to a brute force German muscle car, and I fail to find any connection between the two (besides the country of origin).
He's an older guy so that may explain it.
But my takeaway from what he said was that the E46 and the C63 both were rowdier/rough and ready as soon as you turned the key and that the E9X was too mellow in everyday driving.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:18 PM
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The weight decrease is a good thing, however that't not the only thing that makes driving more "enjoyable" (and I believe the primary reason for that was the new CAFE standards set by EPA). I would be more interested about steering response - F10 M5 had questionable steering feedback (I've read about it in C&D and heard it from a couple of friends, haven't driven it myself, though), plus there are other things that were wrong with it, like the "multi-contour" seats which (if I'm not mistaken) were directly borrowed from a "regular" F10 model, as well as pre-recorded MP3 track simulating real engine noise using car's audio system... So not sure if BMW can still make a good ///M model.

Last edited by Ripred; 01-31-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:43 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by energetik9 View Post
Torque numbers on the next gen M3 should approach 400.
Where did you get this number?
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:17 PM
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Both cars are expected to get an S55 3.0-liter inline-six engine developing 415 hp (310 kW), which would be just about the same as the current M3 with its 3.0-liter inline-six multi-turbo S55 pumping out 414 hp (309 kW). However, torque figure will be increased by about 100 lb-ft (135 Nm), reaching somewhere around 395 lb-ft (535 Nm).
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by IndyMike View Post
Both cars are expected to get an S55 3.0-liter inline-six engine developing 415 hp (310 kW), which would be just about the same as the current M3 with its 3.0-liter inline-six multi-turbo S55 pumping out 414 hp (309 kW). However, torque figure will be increased by about 100 lb-ft (135 Nm), reaching somewhere around 395 lb-ft (535 Nm).
Thanks for the information.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:36 AM
energetik9 energetik9 is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Where did you get this number?
It's been quoted in most of the articles to include the one posted by the OP. I don't know the exact numbers. These are obviously estimates based of the proposed engine specs for the new M4. I have no doubt they will surpass the e9x M3 torque numbers.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by energetik9 View Post
It's been quoted in most of the articles to include the one posted by the OP. I don't know the exact numbers. These are obviously estimates based of the proposed engine specs for the new M4. I have no doubt they will surpass the e9x M3 torque numbers.
We have a 2011 M3 sedan. Great car and I love the NA high revving 8 cylinder engine. It could use more low end torque, but, turbo engines need to overcome the hesitation quirks in order to be serious competitors to NA engines. Personally, the NA high revving 6 cylinder engine in my Porsche is near perfection.

I'm not sure why BMW does not get into supercharged engines. The engine in our Audi S4 is fantastic as compared to my turbo charged 335is.
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