January 2013 segment sales numbers

I've driven the W204 C-Class and F30 enough to realize the F30 is a vastly superior car, I don't think I can find one area where the C-Class outdoes the 3-Series right now (equal range model, i.e C250 VS 328i).

As far as looks, I think the W204 is one of the more timeless and balanced M-B's in a while. The fact that the exterior had to be facelifted VERY little shows just how much Mercedes thinks that about the car as well. Look at other M-B facelifts lately, they're so extensive they look like the management didn't stand behind them in their original form (i.e feeling a flawed design). The C, of course, got a MASSIVE interior facelift, which showed M-B did admit they screwed the pooch on that one for the pre-facelift. Also, look at renders for upcoming M-B's, they're getting more and more superfluous and imbalanced which may signify a loss of the same focus they had on the great W204 design.

Also, take into consideration the C Coupe is jumbled into those sales, while the 3 Coupe is awaiting its "4er" replacement, and regular things like BMW overlapping models which usually proves to be a "slow" sales start for some newer models. As well, M-B's have been providing incentives to move their cars that are pretty much ridiculous, and the C250 being such a speed-slug proves if anything that this segment do not care about the "Sporty end all be all" after all. All that said, the C's sales show just how well a strong, solid, reliable, and understatedly good looking design will be regarded by the market. I feel the F30 will be considered the same way, but even more so. The only criticism I can throw the F30's way is the front may be too polarizing, just too fussy and doesn't sit right with me all the time.

Aside from all that, I don't know why anyone should care about "sales". IMO an enthusiasts position should be to vocalize a maintenance of the brands cachet and what builds such cachet, as you can rest assured the Board will be doing their part in trying to dilute the brand to squeeze out every penny from its worth. Do you really need MORE 3-Series' on the roads? If you know you have the better car (for you), then you can have your cake and eat it too. One of the worst parts about having a great, mass produced car is that you see yourself everywhere (thank you BMW for keeping the M Sport Packages priced at a premium so we don't see them whored out everywhere like the now-generic AMG Package on Mercedes').

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

No. If anything E46 was arguably the greatest 3 Series ever. The F30 is far from it, quite contrary. MB still carries a lot more prestige and status than BMW, whether you like or not.

I've always preached the same tune there (about Mercedes' prestige). I still think it does, but coming out of 4 straight M-B's in 4 years, and now having my first personal BMW (had a bunch in the family), it seems like that prestige Mercedes holds is based on an older demographic who still romanticize the brand for its previous ideals and offerings (which I do as well when thinking so fondly of the Mercedes halo-factor).

It seems like people I know think a lot more highly of the "BMW" mark on my new car than the Star on my previous cars. It's not really about "prestige" with BMW, like it is with Mercedes, I've realized though, it's more about people just find the brand to be "cooler", more impressive as the device it is. That's just been my experience based on the many comments I've heard about my personal cars and "real life" conversations.

As for the E46, I think the E46 was the pinnacle for the 3-Series during its respective time and remember how that car used to give me chills (though, I was in High School which makes you extra sensitive to "chills"), however the F30 is perfect and very suitable evolution, IMO.

BMW has abandoned it's strategy, targeting consumers with similar interests, lifestyle, and intellect as referenced in two books, BMW Driven, by David Kiley and The Rise of the Creative Class, by Richard Florida. Instead BMW has adopted an out of date marketing scheme, fulfill everyone's needs. Conclusion, BMW no longer inspires consumers to aspire.

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

BMW has abandoned it's strategy, targeting consumers with similar interests, lifestyle, and intellect as referenced in two books, BMW Driven, by David Kiley and The Rise of the Creative Class, by Richard Florida. Instead BMW has adopted an out of date marketing scheme, fulfill everyone's needs. Conclusion, BMW no longer inspires consumers to aspire.

Disagree. If you don't think the general public aspires to own a BMW and doesn't see the brand as a premium and high quality product then you are ignoring reality. The same goes for any luxury product like Rolex, Louis Vuitton, etc.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Disagree. If you don't think the general public aspires to own a BMW and sees the brand as a premium and high quality product then you are ignoring reality. The same goes for any luxury product like Rolex, Louis Vuitton, etc.

You're missing the point it's not about attaining luxury, anyone can buy luxury, be it a Mercedes or Rolex, no it's above luxury... owning a BMW is all about being an individual, with creative intellect, being selective in all capacities, having active lifestyle and most important, sport. Two books mentioned, BTW, published before the introduction of the F30, describe in detail the strategy for designing and marketing a products to the creative class.

Highest Regards

[QUOTE=Vector Pilot;7365522]You're missing the point it's not about attaining luxury, anyone can buy luxury, be it a Mercedes or Rolex, no it's above luxury... owning a BMW is all about being an individual, with creative intellect, being selective in all capacities, having active lifestyle and most important, sport. Two books mentioned, BTW, published before the introduction of the F30, describe in detail the strategy for designing and marketing a products to the creative class.

Highest Regards[/QUOTE

That sounds like marketing speak not reality. The 3 series has always been about achieving status and is more prestigious than the more common Camry or Accord. It has a sportier persona than it's direct competitors for sure. If you live in the LA area, they are as common as ants and most certainly most of the drivers buy them for prestige not the qualities you mention.

[QUOTE=Michael Schott;7365676]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

You're missing the point it's not about attaining luxury, anyone can buy luxury, be it a Mercedes or Rolex, no it's above luxury... owning a BMW is all about being an individual, with creative intellect, being selective in all capacities, having active lifestyle and most important, sport. Two books mentioned, BTW, published before the introduction of the F30, describe in detail the strategy for designing and marketing a products to the creative class.

Highest Regards[/QUOTE

That sounds like marketing speak not reality. The 3 series has always been about achieving status and is more prestigious than the more common Camry or Accord. It has a sportier persona than it's direct competitors for sure. If you live in the LA area, they are as common as ants and most certainly most of the drivers buy them for prestige not the qualities you mention.

Trust me this is not being hatched up by a marketing guy... I'll defer to the books mentioned, reading them you'll see consumer surveys verifying the data. Another example, Apple's surveys shows the same results. Regarding your reference to LA, yes your correct, consumers living in SoCal as well as throughout the western region fit the profile. In short the facts speak for themselves.
Highest Regards

^^^

What facts are you talking about? A one month sales sample? Give me a break.

Originally Posted by K-A

As far as looks, I think the W204 is one of the more timeless and balanced M-B's in a while. The fact that the exterior had to be facelifted VERY little shows just how much Mercedes thinks that about the car as well...

The W204 certainly has more presence and I like the way they revised the headlights for their LCI...the first W204 headlights look like BMW E60 knock-offs with the clear eyebrows. Of course that swoosh line (forgot the proper term) on the side of the car is a rip off from the E90. And that feature has been ripped off by other manufacturers as well. I guess Mr. Bangle was truly ahead of his time.

Originally Posted by K-A

...(thank you BMW for keeping the M Sport Packages priced at a premium so we don't see them whored out everywhere like the now-generic AMG Package on Mercedes').

Actually, although I do not mind the badges on my lowly 328 but M has gone the AMG way when they brought out the X5M. What was wrong with X5 4.8is?

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Trust me this is not being hatched up by a marketing guy... I'll defer to the books mentioned, reading them you'll see consumer surveys verifying the data. Another example, Apple's surveys shows the same results. Regarding your reference to LA, yes your correct, consumers living in SoCal as well as throughout the western region fit the profile. In short the facts speak for themselves.
Highest Regards

No one is going to trust you lol. You are some guy on the internet.

Originally Posted by justinnum1

No one is going to trust you lol. You are some guy on the internet.

I'll take that as a compliment.
Thanks
Highest Regards

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

You're missing the point it's not about attaining luxury, anyone can buy luxury, be it a Mercedes or Rolex, no it's above luxury... owning a BMW is all about being an individual, with creative intellect, being selective in all capacities, having active lifestyle and most important, sport. Two books mentioned, BTW, published before the introduction of the F30, describe in detail the strategy for designing and marketing a products to the creative class.

Highest Regards

So.... not understanding your point. Are you now saying that owning a BMW is NOT about being an individual with creative intellect, and being selective in all capacities, and having an active lifestyle? And what facts do you have to base your statement on? How do you know how anyone feels about buying a BMW?

Originally Posted by kobechrome

So.... not understanding your point. Are you now saying that owning a BMW is NOT about being an individual with creative intellect, and being selective in all capacities, and having an active lifestyle? And what facts do you have to base your statement on? How do you know how anyone feels about buying a BMW?

Owning a BMW is primarily about owning a BMW.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Owning a BMW is primarily about owning a BMW.

CA

That's deep !

Originally Posted by kobechrome

So.... not understanding your point. Are you now saying that owning a BMW is NOT about being an individual with creative intellect, and being selective in all capacities, and having an active lifestyle? And what facts do you have to base your statement on? How do you know how anyone feels about buying a BMW?

I'll repeat:
"owning a BMW [IS] all about being an individual, with creative intellect, being selective in all capacities, having active lifestyle and most important, sport."

The statement is based on marketing surveys, taken before the introduction of F30, of BMW owners. Data shows despite age, income and location many BMW owners share the same interests mentioned above.

Highest Regards

Originally Posted by 408Racer

the first W204 headlights look like BMW E60 knock-offs with the clear eyebrows. Of course that swoosh line (forgot the proper term) on the side of the car is a rip off from the E90. And that feature has been ripped off by other manufacturers as well. I guess Mr. Bangle was truly ahead of his time.

Agreed. I actually wrote a whole "thing" on it ("Why I think Chris Bangle is the Steve Jobs of Car Design").

Look at everything, not only everyone is doing, but Mercedes as being the most recent staunch offender. The LED "Lava Tube" rear lights are being used on newer M-B's, about every que on M-B's was done in some shape, way or form by BMW before.

The cars that came out under Bangle's watch weren't initially the prettiest at all, as they IMO seemed like crude interpretations of revolutionary ideas that were rushed to the market.

What to me proved Bangle's genius wasn't only the fact that his ideas and/or management style was ahead of its time, but the fact that starting with the F01, into the F10 which were penned under his leadership, and I'm sure into the F12 and F30 as well, he proved that he can see over and initiate a very timeless, elegant, and harmonious design language as well (revolutionize, then evolutionize the revolution to now carefully refine and hone the original ideas).

Originally Posted by kobechrome

So.... not understanding your point. Are you now saying that owning a BMW is NOT about being an individual with creative intellect, and being selective in all capacities, and having an active lifestyle? And what facts do you have to base your statement on? How do you know how anyone feels about buying a BMW?

Most people buy BMWs to show off and belittle others, and in the process, make themselves feel good.

All status symbols have the same cause and effect.

BJ

Originally Posted by K-A

Agreed. I actually wrote a whole "thing" on it ("Why I think Chris Bangle is the Steve Jobs of Car Design").

Cool! Do you have a link to it?

I admit I was shocked when I first saw the Bangle designs. Then I started to "understand" and admire them over time. Then I started seeing other manufacturers copying his design cues all over the place. Impressive.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Most people buy BMWs to show off and belittle others, and in the process, make themselves feel good.

All status symbols have the same cause and effect.

BJ

Originally Posted by 408Racer

Cool! Do you have a link to it?

I admit I was shocked when I first saw the Bangle designs. Then I started to "understand" and admire them over time. Then I started seeing other manufacturers copying his design cues all over the place. Impressive.

Yes indeed! It was kind of a late night ramble, but the message is clear, and I really think people don't understand the "both sides of Chris Bangle's leadership" part. They all just think of the E60 and E65. He showed great dynamic leadership talents when the F01 spawned a total about-face of the E65 era, i.e bringing back ultimately refined, back to those classic basics we all missed so much, from the E39 era.

Not to mention, he saw over the designing of Rolls Royce, etc.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=669491

Originally Posted by 408Racer

I admit I was shocked when I first saw the Bangle designs. Then I started to "understand" and admire them over time. Then I started seeing other manufacturers copying his design cues all over the place. Impressive.

The ugliest BMW, ever. Every time I see one in my peripheral vision I look the other way.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The ugliest BMW, ever. Every time I see one in my peripheral vision I look the other way.

BJ

LOL...





My vote for ugliest BMW goes to:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The ugliest BMW, ever. Every time I see one in my peripheral vision I look the other way.

BJ

You forgot the new 3 GT. BMW fixed almost all the complaints about the front design of the F30, unfortunately slapped the nice makeup on a pig of GT.

I am hoping the new front look will appear on the F30 soon, much less bloated hood, less sunken front bumper, better looking grilles. Put that face on the F30, BMW wins my heart back.

Of course look is highly subjective. But who says BMW does not listen? They listen alright, just that they got the wrong car

Originally Posted by 408Racer

What was wrong with X5 4.8is?

Go figure, I don't even know what was wrong with 5 touring to start with ...

Originally Posted by dtc100

You forgot the new 3 GT. BMW fixed almost all the complaints about the front design of the F30, unfortunately slapped the nice makeup on a pig of GT.

I am hoping the new front look will appear on the F30 soon, much less bloated hood, less sunken front bumper, better looking grilles. Put that face on the F30, BMW wins my heart back.

Of course look is highly subjective. But who says BMW does not listen? They listen alright, just that they got the wrong car

The GT front end changes are balanced by the higher roofline and extended wheelbase.

If you saw the GT front end on an F30, it would look atrocious.