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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:23 PM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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Exclamation Check Gas Cap Light on... (cap is new)

Hey guys so up date on the wife.
Installed new MAF, lower & upper intake boots, fuel pump, gas cap, crank case vent valve and hoses, and swapped the CAI for the factory intake box.

drove 170 miles and no check engine light.. however the stupid :check gas cap" light is on now... before i got the new cap it would come on and off at times (reason I got a new one). It only did it for a week but im n the process of getting emissions so i took no chances.

I used to have bank 1 lean, bank 2 lean, and evap leak small... all is fixed now but wtf is the gas cap light on for? Startin to bug me because my tag expires this month and i need to pass.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:34 PM
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SJBimmer SJBimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmansour View Post
Hey guys so up date on the wife.
Installed new MAF, lower & upper intake boots, fuel pump, gas cap, crank case vent valve and hoses, and swapped the CAI for the factory intake box.

drove 170 miles and no check engine light.. however the stupid :check gas cap" light is on now... before i got the new cap it would come on and off at times (reason I got a new one). It only did it for a week but im n the process of getting emissions so i took no chances.

I used to have bank 1 lean, bank 2 lean, and evap leak small... all is fixed now but wtf is the gas cap light on for? Startin to bug me because my tag expires this month and i need to pass.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Mine has done this several times after I added techron to the tank. I just remove it and reinstall. It must be my error, because when I get gas, it never does it. Make sure you tighten it so it clicks several times after you tighten it. Since I started doing this, it has never done it again. I assume that this can be cleared with a scanner, but not certain.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:57 PM
joegr joegr is offline
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The light says check gas cap, but it doesn't really know if the problem is the gas cap or a leak somewhere else. It's detecting that the fuel tank isn't air tight when the vents are closed. Unfortunately, there can be several causes for this. It's suspicious that you had an evap leak that you fixed. Some of the work done there may have caused this new problem.
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:22 PM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Mine has done this several times after I added techron to the tank. I just remove it and reinstall. It must be my error, because when I get gas, it never does it. Make sure you tighten it so it clicks several times after you tighten it. Since I started doing this, it has never done it again. I assume that this can be cleared with a scanner, but not certain.
It's not the type that clicks like that... it just clicks once and thats it. Like the original that came with the car. And are you saying the gas you used cause the light to come on? I didn't add anything. I did some seafoam but that wasnt the first time i used it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joegr View Post
The light says check gas cap, but it doesn't really know if the problem is the gas cap or a leak somewhere else. It's detecting that the fuel tank isn't air tight when the vents are closed. Unfortunately, there can be several causes for this. It's suspicious that you had an evap leak that you fixed. Some of the work done there may have caused this new problem.
I dont think Anything I did under the hood cause it. I didnt touch the fuel under the hood and i dont see how the CCV affects it. Only thing to the fuel was a new fuel pump (which is nice and secure and so is the hose coming out of it. And the gas cap. Ill check to see if it tightens up some more but i dont want to force anything. Let me run out to my car and do it.

EDIT: It's tightened up all the way to the click... :/

HAs anyone else had this problem?

Last edited by jmansour; 03-15-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:32 PM
joegr joegr is offline
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I just replaced a fuel pump too. I found it very difficult to fully seat the new pump with the new seal. I had to hammer on the ring quite a while to get it all the way screwed down. It only takes a tiny leak to trigger the light, and as far as it is concerned the fuel pump seal and the gas cap seal are the same thing.

Also, what work did you do for the evap leak?
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2013, 03:06 PM
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SJBimmer SJBimmer is offline
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Only happened to me when I added techron, so it was probably my error. We aren't allowed to pump our own gas here, so I rarely touch the gas cap.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:19 PM
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TacoBuster TacoBuster is offline
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Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Only happened to me when I added techron, so it was probably my error. We aren't allowed to pump our own gas here, so I rarely touch the gas cap.
Wtf your not allowed to pump your own gas...?? Dam i get tired of pumping my own..
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2013, 04:46 PM
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Wtf your not allowed to pump your own gas...?? Dam i get tired of pumping my own..
Crazy isn't it? That's the law in NJ. Can't complain though. When it's 10 degrees out, I stay nice and warm in the car. When I was in HS I worked at a gas station. It sucked.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2013, 06:17 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Crazy isn't it? That's the law in NJ. Can't complain though. When it's 10 degrees out, I stay nice and warm in the car. When I was in HS I worked at a gas station. It sucked.
Having lived in NY and crossing the border to NJ, where the gas is one of the cheapest in the nation, I've come to appreciate full serve (not half full serve like they do in Oregon) or no serve (like they do here in California).
Complete discussion here:
- What is the cost differential between 87 & 91 octane AKI (1)

As for the leak detection system, see this pdf which explains it rather well:
M54_technical_information.pdf (2.52 MB, 809 views)

See also:
- All about the P0455 diagnostic trouble code when the gas cap is missing (1)
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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TacoBuster TacoBuster is offline
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Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Crazy isn't it? That's the law in NJ. Can't complain though. When it's 10 degrees out, I stay nice and warm in the car. When I was in HS I worked at a gas station. It sucked.
Well.. When its hotter than hell i pump my gas.. When its colder than Antartica i pump my gas.. When its raining i pump my gas. When im pissed off cuz a homeless guy asks for money seeing i pay like $4.00 for a gallon of gas instead of feeling sorry for me i hand him some change and i still fill up my tank.

I can come up with a long list. In the end. I still pump my dam gas. Moral of the story. Im tired of pumping gas. Im buying a bicycle..
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  #11  
Old 03-16-2013, 12:21 PM
mr_bean mr_bean is offline
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Having lived in NY and crossing the border to NJ, where the gas is one of the cheapest in the nation, I've come to appreciate full serve (not half full serve like they do in Oregon) or no serve (like they do here in California).
I always think it's funny that NJ is the butt of so many jokes (mostly from people that have never spent any appreciable amount of time here). If it was such a bad place then why is it the most crowded state in the nation? Just saying, seems like a lot of people want to be here.

Of course, I could be biased.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2013, 05:23 PM
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I always think it's funny that NJ is the butt of so many jokes (mostly from people that have never spent any appreciable amount of time here). If it was such a bad place then why is it the most crowded state in the nation? Just saying, seems like a lot of people want to be here.

Of course, I could be biased.
You and I both know that the rest of the country just sees the refineries on TV or they remember the scenery from the Sopranos, and think that's how the entire state looks. My favorites are the people that watched Jersey Shore and think that Seaside Heights is how the entire coast looks. I feel terrible for the folks affected by Sandy, but I'm kind of glad that most of the Seaside area will be rebuilt. It was getting kind of shabby, and now the knuckleheads that used to go there will have to find somewhere else to go. I would recommend they try the Arthur Kill. Excellent swimming from what I hear.
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:15 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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If it was such a bad place then why is it the most crowded state in the nation?
And the most cars per square mile, and the most horses too (go figure).

As for gas prices, we explored why NJ often had the lowest prices in the nation over here - but never came to a definitive conclusion as to the reason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by oekundar View Post
Part of the reason for the cheaper prices in NJ is due to lower insurance premiums by not having random customers handling the pumps. That is in turn passed on to the consumers and believe me in the winter time...this state rocks on that tip...the property tax is another issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderchris View Post
A quick review of The Peoples Republic of Oregon website reveals that the gasoline laws are due to environmental concerns. It prevents topping off, misuse of the nozzles (i.e. pushing the safety forward to fill a spare tank), etc etc. Some ridiculous metric in air quality is maintained by having some no-doubt highly trained guy that was in Bumfights a few years back pump your gas...
One thing odd about NJ though, is the car insurance is some of the highest in the nation,
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Gasoline taxes are about 75 a gallon (at least in California they are), which, outweighs the hourly cost of an extra attendant, don't you think?

And, to your point, I'd be absolutely shocked if NJ gas-station insurance is much lower than most states, as NJ has the absolute highest automobile insurance prices in the nation by far (I'm not sure if it's the Mafia or what that makes NJ automobile insurance the highest in the nation 18 out of the past 20 years).

But, of course, gas-station insurance isn't car insurance. Even so, if you take the total insurance paid in a year divided by the number of gallons sold in that year, I'll bet the insurance price per gallon pales in comparison to the amount of TAX on a single gallon of gas.

Taxes are always the single largest component of gas prices (see this reference), once the fuel is bought from the refinery.

Interestingly, to throw a bit of FUD on our analysis, NJ is only midway on this gas-tax scale, but it's almost at the bottom of this tax chart, so, maybe something changed recently in taxes.

Bear in mind, the hypothesis is that self-serve gets you no benefit whatsoever in prices, and we're using NJ as our low-end example (with the only full service in the nation) which is still almost the cheapest gas in the nation. (Duly noted is that the overall tax burden in NJ is even higher than almost any other state, as you intimated with property taxes.)

On the high end, California is rife with "self service" (i.e., no service whatsoever), where for example, taxes gasoline roughly about 75 cents a gallon (18.4/gallon federal, 45.5/gallon state, 9.25% sales tax + apparently a few other percentage-based local and county taxes).

< / another rant on the naive stupidity of the average native Californian >

< OL >
< RANT 1 > Average native Californian "thinks" they have freeways; yet they pay more more taxes per mile driven than almost any other state!
< RANT 2 > California lawmakers say it's illegal to get your DTC scanned for free
< RANT 3 > Average American "thinks" self-serve saves them money; but all it does is drastically reduce their service and has absolutely no realistic bearing on the gasoline prices.
< RANT 4> California lawmakers make it illegal to put a GPS in the middle of your windshield, where everyone else puts it.

< / RANTS for today >

__________________
Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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Hey guys sorry was gone a while. after 300 miles I have NO lights but now I am about to throw this F&$*in car off a cliff.
I brought it to emissions at 50 miles... wasnt ready yet
again at 125 miles... wasnt ready
again at 300 miles... wasnt ready.

the guy said i might have to get the computer reset... aka reflash my ecu! O.o
HAs ANYONE had this problem before?! It's really weird i didnt do anything that would cause me to need a reflash and i passed emmisions with the engine light on last year... :/

Clues??? so no lights at all but the car wont get ready... Ive done lots of city and lots of highway and lots of heavy gassing and sunday I'm going to the Tail of the Dragon so thats another 700 miles and allot of hauling butt.

Thanks guys... tag expires in a week and my gsxr just broke so now I'm SOL
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:50 PM
GoForthFast GoForthFast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bean View Post
I always think it's funny that NJ is the butt of so many jokes (mostly from people that have never spent any appreciable amount of time here). If it was such a bad place then why is it the most crowded state in the nation? Just saying, seems like a lot of people want to be here.

Of course, I could be biased.
Hey both you Jersey guys, I've spent plenty of time in NJ and make jokes about it and they're all true. I don't expect that's true of BMW drivers who freq this board, but lot's of Jersey drivers are very bad. Nobody ever taught them how to drive.
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:53 PM
GoForthFast GoForthFast is offline
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Originally Posted by joegr View Post
I just replaced a fuel pump too. I found it very difficult to fully seat the new pump with the new seal. I had to hammer on the ring quite a while to get it all the way screwed down. It only takes a tiny leak to trigger the light, and as far as it is concerned the fuel pump seal and the gas cap seal are the same thing.

Also, what work did you do for the evap leak?
Hope you come back and read this because you've made the classic mistake installing your fuel pump! You did it wrong and need to go back and do it correctly. Because now it is in a dangerous position.

First put the new gasket into the tank opening and tuck the lip down into the tank. THEN put the new fuel pump into the already seated gasket. Now it will sit low enough to easily screw the retaining ring on by hand! Tighten a bit more with a screwdriver and gentle taps with a hammer.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:54 AM
joegr joegr is offline
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[QUOTE=GoForthFast;7454003...First put the new gasket into the tank opening and tuck the lip down into the tank. THEN put the new fuel pump into the already seated gasket. ....[/QUOTE]

I read the notes on how to do it, and that is exactly what I did. I put the new gasket in the tank first and carefully tucked it in everywhere. I think my mistake was not putting some lubricate on the inside of the gasket. Anyway, I did get it all the way down (it was just a struggle). It's been about a week now, and so far no check engine light or gas cap light. I feel pretty good about it being correctly seated and sealed.
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:47 AM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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That is how I installed it, I had a BMW tech giving me some pointers at the shop. After 310 miles the check gas cap and service engine soon light both cut on for good. I read the code, had a EVAP leak (small).
Being the cap is new it could only be I had a leak in the pump, so I hit it a few more good times and it moved another inch and now it seems pretty snug. Turned it back on and only the check engine light was on so I reset the light and we will see if it comes back.

I'll get back to you on it!
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2013, 03:25 PM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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ok update time: I tighteed the fuel pump as much as it was before, if not further... i used a sludge hammer lol. reset the code and went for a drive. check gas cap light is still on.

Any ideas?
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:50 PM
joegr joegr is offline
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...
Any ideas?
Smoke test of the tank and vent system?
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  #21  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:32 PM
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SJBimmer SJBimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by jmansour View Post
ok update time: I tighteed the fuel pump as much as it was before, if not further... i used a sludge hammer lol. reset the code and went for a drive. check gas cap light is still on.

Any ideas?
Don't know if this is true on the bimmer, but on most cars there is a flexible hose between the filler neck and the gas tank to allow for movement.. You may have to remove the fender liners to see it, but I would give it a look, The clamps could be loose, or the material may be deteriorated. Just a thought. Check realoem.com to see how the setup actually looks. You may also have a leak in the vapor recovery system, but again, this is just a guess.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2013, 03:29 PM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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Originally Posted by joegr View Post
Smoke test of the tank and vent system?
By vent system do you mean like the intake? If so i did that and no point, everything there is new now.

Lol smoking the tank sounds dangerous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Don't know if this is true on the bimmer, but on most cars there is a flexible hose between the filler neck and the gas tank to allow for movement.. You may have to remove the fender liners to see it, but I would give it a look, The clamps could be loose, or the material may be deteriorated. Just a thought. Check realoem.com to see how the setup actually looks. You may also have a leak in the vapor recovery system, but again, this is just a guess.
I'll try and look, is the hose filled with gas or air?
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2013, 04:04 PM
joegr joegr is offline
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Originally Posted by jmansour View Post
By vent system do you mean like the intake? If so i did that and no point, everything there is new now.
No, I mean the gas tank vent system, that's where it's complaining about a possible leak. I wouldn't do it with any homemade rig. I mean with profession equipment rated for this (does not use combustion to generate smoke).
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:24 PM
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SJBimmer SJBimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by jmansour View Post
By vent system do you mean like the intake? If so i did that and no point, everything there is new now.

Lol smoking the tank sounds dangerous.




I'll try and look, is the hose filled with gas or air?
Gas if you fill to the top, air otherwise. You should never fill to the last drop. You can flood the charcoal canister for the emissions system and the canister will need to be replaced.

This link may help you. It explains the leak detection pump system. Pages 47-50

http://www.bmwtech.ru/pdf/e46/ST034/...Internet-1.pdf

Last edited by SJBimmer; 03-20-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2013, 02:26 PM
jmansour jmansour is offline
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Originally Posted by joegr View Post
No, I mean the gas tank vent system, that's where it's complaining about a possible leak. I wouldn't do it with any homemade rig. I mean with profession equipment rated for this (does not use combustion to generate smoke).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJBimmer View Post
Gas if you fill to the top, air otherwise. You should never fill to the last drop. You can flood the charcoal canister for the emissions system and the canister will need to be replaced.

This link may help you. It explains the leak detection pump system. Pages 47-50

http://www.bmwtech.ru/pdf/e46/ST034/...Internet-1.pdf
Awesome guys, thanks!
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