X5M faster and better than Cayenne Turbo?

Originally Posted by RockChips

It is?

He speaks of falsities my lord...

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

I think it's just personal preference, I own the last generation and current generation Cayenne, steering wheel reminds me of a woman's bikini, ha ha.
the X5 interior is not much better than Cayennes, my friend's 04 comes with CASETTE tape player?! the Navigations sucks!!!, my other friends x5 5.0 needs oil every 4000 miles.

My friend bought an '05 with 110K miles on it from an auction for around $14K and then 3 weeks later got some type of error on the NAVI screen and hasn't been able to use the Navi screens since. Dealer told him it would be $400 just to diagnose it but he was trying to do this car on the cheap so I don't think he even considered fixing it. He simply bought it because it had the name/label. He doesn't know much about cars so some buy them simply due to the name with little regard to viability, longevity or performance. As long as it says Porsche who actually cares if the stuff on it actually works...LOL

Originally Posted by RockChips

It is?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Motor trend puts Cayenne Turbo 1st place,

Top Gear Austria puts Cayenne Turbo 1st


X5M is a great car, I definitely will buy it over a Cayenne Turbo, but if I have the wealth of a celebrity I would buy a cayenne turbo and customize it to a one and only ever built, exclusive for me.

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Motor trend puts Cayenne Turbo 1st place,

Top Gear Austria puts Cayenne Turbo 1st


X5M is a great car, I definitely will buy it over a Cayenne Turbo, but if I have the wealth of a celebrity I would buy a cayenne turbo and customize it to a one and only ever built, exclusive for me.

I think all these reviews are subjective. Coincidentally, C&D voted the 2012 X5M as top dog.

Originally Posted by RockChips

Why?

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ne-turbo-1.pdf

Car and Driver rates x5m #1, because x5m scores big time in cargo space, rear seat space, as test price, acceleration (because there more HP), brake feel (all BMW have great brake feel, but ACTUAL stopping distance is another story!!!) are those really matters?

Cayenne is better in features/amenities (because there are more available options), fuel economy, steering feel, handling, ride, better slalom, 300 feet skidpad etc… ARE THOSE MORE IMPORTANT?

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

Car and Driver rates x5m #1, because x5m scores big time in cargo space, rear seat space, as test price, acceleration (because there more HP), brake feel (all BMW have great brake feel, but ACTUAL stopping distance is another story!!!) are those really matters?

Cayenne is better in features/amenities (because there are more available options), fuel economy, steering feel, handling, ride, better slalom, 300 feet skidpad etc… ARE THOSE MORE IMPORTANT?

Bimmer gets more power and torque at lower rpm than the P does even though it's a smaller engine with a lower compression. I love the X5M for all it does and the ergonomics and room of the E70 design in general. Pretty amazing machine. I do like the Cayenne Turbo, but not $30K more at that price point.
One thing about the Cayenne that bothers me is how bland the base Cayenne looks that you see so often. The Cayenne Turbo looks great, but the base and even an S without the optional rims looks too much like a Hyundai. I prefer the old design, other than the new Turbo.
X5M for me any day. Power, Bimmer handling and brake feel, comfy room for family and a dog road trip. Yes please.
I will take a 911 to go next to it, though.

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

The Porsche is a much better build suv than the x5m. but is it fast than x5m NO, is it better than x5m YES. Is it worth it's price tag? depends.
Porsche has more options, more exclussive options, the options can be more than a X5m. check out the PDCC, PCTV, Burmester, PCCB etc...

it's like comparing a Nissan GTR and a Lamborghini, GTR is faster, more horsepower, might even corners better, it's a GREAT buy for that price, but if I can afford a lamborghini, it's gotta be the yellow bull.

Off topic, but if you can afford a Lambo, get the Audi R8 instead. Having driven some Lambos back to back with other Italian and German equivalents, the Lambo build quality and ergonomics are laughable. If you gave me a Gallardo, I'd take it straight to Audi and trade without hesitation IMHO.
Or save up and get an SLS.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Better build quality, handles better, better resale, etc. Porsche is in a different league. Just because the X5M is faster, doesn't mean it's better. If I'm dropping $100k+ on an SUV, it will have a Porsche crest on the front

I agree that the Porsche is better in many ways. However, with a 40k price premium it better be superior. I have the same dilemma with the M5 vs the Porsche Panny GTS. The M is faster, but I like the Panny better. I just can't justify the 30k price premium for a slower Porsche. It is all about individual perspective. For the money the x5M is the best SUV on the market. If money is no option my vote goes to Porsche.

If I had the money to waste, I'd buy a fully loaded Cayenne Turbo, have it smashed in a metal scrap compactor, then run over it with my X5M!

X5M FTW!

Originally Posted by Die Wolfe

If I had the money to waste, I'd buy a fully loaded Cayenne Turbo, have it smashed in a metal scrap compactor, then run over it with my X5M!

X5M FTW!

That may be the only way you would get around it .....

Originally Posted by pa50i

Off topic, but if you can afford a Lambo, get the Audi R8 instead. Having driven some Lambos back to back with other Italian and German equivalents, the Lambo build quality and ergonomics are laughable. If you gave me a Gallardo, I'd take it straight to Audi and trade without hesitation IMHO.
Or save up and get an SLS.

The Audi R8 literally has many of the same parts as the Gallardo. There are pictures on the web.

So why would the Audi R8 be more reliable?

Originally Posted by RockChips

The Audi R8 literally has many of the same parts as the Gallardo. There are pictures on the web.

So why would the Audi R8 be more reliable?

the base V8 in the R8 has been around in other Audis for a while, plus there are many many more Audi dealers than Lambo dealers.

Originally Posted by Whippa

That may be the only way you would get around it .....

Whatever it takes to win, ya gotta get up on over the competition one way it another...hahahaha

I have been following this thread for a few days and have resisted posting, but maybe I can get us back on topic. In November I went through this decision – an X5 or a Cayenne. The car is for my wife and so I wasn’t looking at an X5M or a Turbo. I drive the car in the summer for a few months when we are in Wyoming but during the year only every other week or so. At the time I was driving a 991 C2s Cab and my wife a 2010 X5 4.8i with sport, full nappa, and 20s. I am familiar with Porsche and they make a great sports car (GT some would say). IMO the 911 competes at the low end against M6 and SL 63 AMG, and at the high end against the Audi R8 (V8). The 911 is actually the price bargain against all of those cars.

We were looking at the X5 M sport with 20s, full nappa, and the performance package (440 hp and 480 torque) and the Cayenne GTS. When you start to equip the two with the same options the list price delta is around $30K and the purchase delta is around $35K and if you lease the MF difference is .00125 vs .002 (3.0% vs 4.8%). From a performance stand point the X5 is faster and because of the greater torque down lower it is smoother. The Cayenne handles better but it is still an SUV and it ain’t gonna reach 1.0 g cornering (at least no on 4 wheels). So you could say acceleration and handling are a draw or a tradeoff. On a couple of occasions I have driven a Cayenne loaner (V6) and the interior drove me crazy after a few hours in the car. IMO the X5 is cleaner and a little bigger. But the deal breaker for us was not another car with PCM. Buttons, buttons, buttons. The Idrive is cleaner and to me more intuitive. After a year using the PCM in the 911 I didn’t want two cars with buttons and touch screen. Believe me punching in a street address on a screen is slow and more prone to error. In addition, being able to mail a destination to the car is a lot easier. In addition, we just couldn’t find a Porsche standard color we liked (we got the X5 with Space Gray and the Nappa Sand Beige). The only way we could have found a color for the Porsche was to go with custom paint (PTS) and now a $40K delta.

The Cayenne is a nice car and maybe in three years if the new X5 doesn’t interest me we will look at the Cayenne again and pay the extra $35K but right now the X5 and the Cayenne are really close and $35K is $35K.

Well said from the voice of experience. I just have one quibble -- the nappa leather; why do you like it? It just feels "wrong" to me and I actually prefer the standard leather. I also found the base Cayenne to be a very nice and intuitive car -- much moreso for me than the X5, but that's just me I guess. I was also surprised at how well the base version performed. Much better than the early years when the base was a real slug.

Nappa leather: two reasons, first both my wife and I don't like pebble leather, the smooth leather just looks better to our eyes. Second, the leather dash. I just like full leather interiors. I have extended leather in my 911. Life is short and I like good leather (an lots of it).

Leather is good -- no matter what kind as long as you like it!

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Better build quality, handles better, better resale, etc. Porsche is in a different league. Just because the X5M is faster, doesn't mean it's better. If I'm dropping $100k+ on an SUV, it will have a Porsche crest on the front

Why didn't you buy a Porsche Cayenne instead of your X5?

I saw the X5M as a bargain (much like my F10 was) amongst high performace SUVs, so that's where I actually put my $100+k. Okay, I didn't physically put down a $100k, but I leased it for 40 cents on the dollar when compared to the Turbo S. Yes, I did a similar builds and used my lease payment vs Porsche's lease payment estimator and the lease payment difference is that big! Heck, lease payments for the GTS costs 50% more per month than my X5M. It gets even worse, I had to drop down to Cayenne before Porsche can offer a lease payment comparable to mine. Blame BMW for subsidizing leases if you want, but I driving a sweet SUV at a great monthly cost. The Porsche crest isn't worth losing 3 seconds in a 0-60 run - that's minivan territory.


Anyway, I'm in Germany right now, so Yahoo took me to a German mag: www.autozeitung.de. The good news is they already have comparison tests for the SUVs in question.

Test 1
1. Cayenne GTS (2987 pts)
2. X5 xDrive50 (2917 pts)

Conclusion – Michael Godde

In the duel of the stocky athletes from Stuttgart and Munich the new Cayenne GTS wins. The basis for success is the very impressive idea on the handling course, which is crowned with top brake values - as with the Turbo models. The Cayenne is also a piece of sports car. On top of that it allows no major weakness compared to the Bayern in the other chapters. The BMW impresses above all with its very good seat and suspension comfort. The X5 xDrive50i is significantly cheaper than the Porsche Cayenne GTS. But that is not enough in the dash to victory.
bmw-x5-xdrive50i-porsche-cayenne-gts-2013-power-suv


Test 2
1. X5M (2981 pts)
2. Cayene Turbo S (2884 pts)

Conclusion – Heinrich Lingner

It is surprising that the BMW X5M so clearly wins this comparison. It has a better interior space, more comfort, and the lower base price. The strengths of the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S are the sensitively responsive V8, Porsche typical precise steering, and the perfectly dosed carbon ceramic brakes. But not everything on this car fits in the rating scheme. For the evil Turbo hissing of the Porsche, hardly any points can be distributed. And unfortunately also for the beautiful red of BMW.
power-suv-im-vergleich-bmw-und-porsche


Interestingly, both BMWs scored better in depriciation cost, but if you think about it, the few percent advantage Porsche may have in resale values pales in light of the much larger cost disadvantage. So the actual depriciation is still higher with the Porsches.

Well said, mein brüder! Now have fun in Deutschland with that ED!

Originally Posted by dunderhi

Why didn't you buy a Porsche Cayenne instead of your X5?

I saw the X5M as a bargain (much like my F10 was) amongst high performace SUVs, so that's where I actually put my $100+k. Okay, I didn't physically put down a $100k, but I leased it for 40 cents on the dollar when compared to the Turbo S. Yes, I did a similar builds and used my lease payment vs Porsche's lease payment estimator and the lease payment difference is that big! Heck, lease payments for the GTS costs 50% more per month than my X5M. It gets even worse, I had to drop down to Cayenne before Porsche can offer a lease payment comparable to mine. Blame BMW for subsidizing leases if you want, but I driving a sweet SUV at a great monthly cost. The Porsche crest isn't worth losing 3 seconds in a 0-60 run - that's minivan territory.


Anyway, I'm in Germany right now, so Yahoo took me to a German mag: www.autozeitung.de. The good news is they already have comparison tests for the SUVs in question.

Test 1
1. Cayenne GTS (2987 pts)
2. X5 xDrive50 (2917 pts)

Conclusion – Michael Godde

In the duel of the stocky athletes from Stuttgart and Munich the new Cayenne GTS wins. The basis for success is the very impressive idea on the handling course, which is crowned with top brake values - as with the Turbo models. The Cayenne is also a piece of sports car. On top of that it allows no major weakness compared to the Bayern in the other chapters. The BMW impresses above all with its very good seat and suspension comfort. The X5 xDrive50i is significantly cheaper than the Porsche Cayenne GTS. But that is not enough in the dash to victory.
bmw-x5-xdrive50i-porsche-cayenne-gts-2013-power-suv


Test 2
1. X5M (2981 pts)
2. Cayene Turbo S (2884 pts)

Conclusion – Heinrich Lingner

It is surprising that the BMW X5M so clearly wins this comparison. It has a better interior space, more comfort, and the lower base price. The strengths of the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S are the sensitively responsive V8, Porsche typical precise steering, and the perfectly dosed carbon ceramic brakes. But not everything on this car fits in the rating scheme. For the evil Turbo hissing of the Porsche, hardly any points can be distributed. And unfortunately also for the beautiful red of BMW.
power-suv-im-vergleich-bmw-und-porsche


Interestingly, both BMWs scored better in depriciation cost, but if you think about it, the few percent advantage Porsche may have in resale values pales in light of the much larger cost disadvantage. So the actual depriciation is still higher with the Porsches.

Great article, but the Cayenne Turbo S in that comparison is the older generation, the new generation just came out, I think things will be different

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...esamtbewertung

this is the article X5m, new Cayenne Turbo, New ML 63 test, Cayenne #1, X5m #2, ML63 #3
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...esamtbewertung

this is Cayenne Turbo vs. X5m

Originally Posted by NCAMG

I have been following this thread for a few days and have resisted posting, but maybe I can get us back on topic. In November I went through this decision – an X5 or a Cayenne. The car is for my wife and so I wasn’t looking at an X5M or a Turbo. I drive the car in the summer for a few months when we are in Wyoming but during the year only every other week or so. At the time I was driving a 991 C2s Cab and my wife a 2010 X5 4.8i with sport, full nappa, and 20s. I am familiar with Porsche and they make a great sports car (GT some would say). IMO the 911 competes at the low end against M6 and SL 63 AMG, and at the high end against the Audi R8 (V8). The 911 is actually the price bargain against all of those cars.

We were looking at the X5 M sport with 20s, full nappa, and the performance package (440 hp and 480 torque) and the Cayenne GTS. When you start to equip the two with the same options the list price delta is around $30K and the purchase delta is around $35K and if you lease the MF difference is .00125 vs .002 (3.0% vs 4.8%). From a performance stand point the X5 is faster and because of the greater torque down lower it is smoother. The Cayenne handles better but it is still an SUV and it ain’t gonna reach 1.0 g cornering (at least no on 4 wheels). So you could say acceleration and handling are a draw or a tradeoff. On a couple of occasions I have driven a Cayenne loaner (V6) and the interior drove me crazy after a few hours in the car. IMO the X5 is cleaner and a little bigger. But the deal breaker for us was not another car with PCM. Buttons, buttons, buttons. The Idrive is cleaner and to me more intuitive. After a year using the PCM in the 911 I didn’t want two cars with buttons and touch screen. Believe me punching in a street address on a screen is slow and more prone to error. In addition, being able to mail a destination to the car is a lot easier. In addition, we just couldn’t find a Porsche standard color we liked (we got the X5 with Space Gray and the Nappa Sand Beige). The only way we could have found a color for the Porsche was to go with custom paint (PTS) and now a $40K delta.

The Cayenne is a nice car and maybe in three years if the new X5 doesn’t interest me we will look at the Cayenne again and pay the extra $35K but right now the X5 and the Cayenne are really close and $35K is $35K.

All BMW X5 are build in USA, All Cayennes are build in Germany, X5 are mass production hence have much better money factor lease rates and finance, BMW requires fico score 650 to qualify, Porsche requires 760, I have 765 score and still can't get approve from Porsche, I have to pay cash for it, although I'm a previous owner. There are way more Cayenne Turbo on the road the X5ms, manufacture don't set the price, we the consumer does (if no one buys porsche, then they'll lower the price, right?) if everyone know x5m is cheaper and still goes for turbo, there must be a reason.

you must test drive old generation cayenne, new PCM now touch screen and buttons, strange, many magazines complain iDrive is hard to use and complicated.

all my Giorgio Armani le collezioni are made in Italy, only the cheap Armani Exchange are non Italian made. If I buy a german suv cost $100k, I want it to be made in Germany.

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

Great article, but the Cayenne Turbo S in that comparison is the older generation, the new generation just came out, I think things will be different

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...esamtbewertung

this is the article X5m, new Cayenne Turbo, New ML 63 test, Cayenne #1, X5m #2, ML63 #3
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...esamtbewertung

this is Cayenne Turbo vs. X5m

My bad, I didn't catch the dates on the reviews.

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

All BMW X5 are build in USA, All Cayennes are build in Germany, X5 are mass production hence have much better money factor lease rates and finance, BMW requires fico score 650 to qualify, Porsche requires 760, I have 765 score and still can't get approve from Porsche, I have to pay cash for it, although I'm a previous owner. There are way more Cayenne Turbo on the road the X5ms, manufacture don't set the price, we the consumer does (if no one buys porsche, then they'll lower the price, right?) if everyone know x5m is cheaper and still goes for turbo, there must be a reason.

you must test drive old generation cayenne, new PCM now touch screen and buttons, strange, many magazines complain iDrive is hard to use and complicated.

all my Giorgio Armani le collezioni are made in Italy, only the cheap Armani Exchange are non Italian made. If I buy a german suv cost $100k, I want it to be made in Germany.

Do you have actual sales numbers for the Cayenne Turbo vs the X5M? I never see Turbos, but I do see X5Ms. Anyway, like most people seem to claim when making these comparisons, I think most Porsche buyers only compare MSRPs and and not the true cost to own. Once one looks at the real numbers, it's nearly impossible to justify paying 2.5x over an X5M. Your test links showed a 3% margin of victory, not a 150% margin. For the monthly cost of a Turbo S, I have a new $103k X5M and a new $105k 650xi and an extra $600/mo that I'm using to prepay my mortgage.

Also, for the second generation Cayenne the final assembly has been shifted from Bratislava, Slovakia to Leipzig, Germany. The Cayenne chassis and body are still made at the Volkwagen factory in Bratislava. It's kind of like buying an Armani Suit, but the textiles are from Croatia. Wait a minute, where are fabrics made?

dawninglawrence, please don't take this the wrong way. The Cayenne is a great SUV and I only looked at X5s and Cayennes. Nothing else seems to measure up in performance and quality. However, it seems like you are suggesting that the Cayenne, because they are made in Germany, are better quality and more exclusive. Just a few facts:

2011 Porsche total worldwide sales – 117,000
Cayenne worldwide sales were over 50% of the total (60,000)
2011 BMW total worldwide sales – 1.4 million
X5 worldwide sales 104,000
US sales of both X5s and Cayenne are about 1/3 of the total.

So if you are looking at exclusivity I don't think Cayenne offers that. Porsche exclusivity is with the 911 (around 20,000 per year worldwide maybe 6-7K in the US). Cayenne is the volume leader for a company that relies on VW for platform engineering. Porsche sales volume is problematic in an environment of stiffening safety and pollution regulation. The Cayenne provides profit for Porsche because it shares platform development costs with VW and Audi. By the way, there are probably more Cayenne platform SUVs out there than X5s. Porsche is trying to reach 200,000 units per year to remain viable. The Cayenne and the new mid-size SUV are the answer (volume sales with platform cost sharing).
Also, the East German factory does not have the same workforce that the Stuttgart factory has. It is just like the Spartanburg X5 factory with lots of technology and a capital intensive production process. By the way, if you look at the X5 sticker you will see that only 30% of the content of an X5 is from the US. Most of the parts and components come from Germany. The BMW 8 speed is a German ZF while the Porsche Cayenne 8 speed is an Aisin made in Japan?? Porsche have done very well in applying their 911 cache to both the Cayenne and Panamera.
As far as financing is concerned, the VW-Audi group just doesn't get it. They pretty much let the dealer find the best local financing deals. They don't see the need to have their own financing arm/bank in the US. BMW provide market financing rates for both purchases and leases. Yes, sometimes for certain models and sales pushes they will buy down the rate. So when you put together the price delta and the financing delta the cost of ownership could be as much as 60 to 100 percent greater for a Cayenne vs. an X5.
As far as the I drive vs. PCM. I have both in 2012 911 C2s(991) and 2013 X5 M sport. The I drive is far better than the PCM both in function and ease of use. Sending Google maps to the X5 is a lot better than punching in the address on a touch screen (Audi have a similar setup to Porsche but provide the MMI controller). The I drive allows you to control Pandora from the screen. The PCM just displays the text. I could go on but I didn't by the 911 for the telematics I bought it for the PSE.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if price delta is a measure of quality and exclusivity, for twice the price of a Giorgio Armani le collezioni suit ($2,000) you could get a very nice bespoke suit. Just a thought.

Very well said...nope didnt "take it the wrong way"..but "badge passion" does trump logic every time >>>(:

Originally Posted by dawninglawrence

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Motor trend puts Cayenne Turbo 1st place,

Yet it was still slower to 60 mph

So its a complete myth that the Cayenne is the fastest SUV.