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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 PM
daverp daverp is offline
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Shudder between 1500 and 2100 rpm under load? Transmission or other?

So, I was on here a while back with a separate issue with stalling I seem to have corrected (sticking vanos solenoid) . Finally got a code on that (P1554). Changed oil, cleaned and swapped solenoids to see if it would go away or if swapping would result in a different code. Seemed to run a little better, no stalling, code disappeared after a few days.

I still have a shuddering. It happens at various speeds in gears 4,5,6 it seems, when cruising at speed (from about 30 to 60, depending on gear). All is fine until engine loading increases slightly when in the 1500 to 2100 rpm range (usually hits about 1500 or so, and again at 2000, all gears). Crusing along, slightly depress pedal to keep up speed, and the shuddering starts. If I push the pedal through it and accelerate harder, it stops.

It's not a constant shuddering, but lasts several seconds, on and off, as the car works its way though that rpm range.

If I put the car in sport mode, and manually select a gear that keeps it in that rpm range, the shudder is still there somewhat, but much less noticeable.

Car has 135k miles on it. 2007 328i. Was regularly serviced by dealer through 100k miles.

Ideas? I'm thinking of taking it to an indy tech this weekend, but would like to know what possibilities exist here, and if there's anything I should try and DIY first?
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:45 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is online now
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trade it on another car, its not like it a classic, unless you plan on keeping the car for EVER, dont waste any money on it, if it doesnt keep you from getting from point A to point B then dont worry about it, drive it and get use to it.

my opinion and I have spent tons of money on a car thats worth 1/2 of what I spent on it
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:07 PM
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Spark plugs?
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:47 AM
Phil325i Phil325i is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laser View Post
Spark plugs?
My guess would be a coil. But OP, get the fault codes read and eliminate the guesswork!
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:40 AM
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fun2drive fun2drive is offline
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This shudder may not be an engine issue but that is a good place to start first. However the drivetrain might also be a place to look if you get no joy resolving the shudder.
The Guibo can provide the type of shudder you mention when it is worn out.
This might be a case where you don't get a code.
You mention this occurs under load which does sound like a coil issue but you didn't mention throwing a code which is a little confusing.
Failing 2ndary coils will start with a hot engine under load and continue to get worse.
Here is one thing that is typically a dead giveaway if it is a coil.
If you drive the car stone cold before the engine has warmed up at all does this happen?
If it doesn't happen until the engine is warm to hot that points to a coil.
If it happens all the time independent of the engine being cold or warm that is typically something else...
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:10 AM
daverp daverp is offline
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I'm going to have a diagnositc run on it today and an indy service place, but the only codes I've had pop up were for the vanos solenoid (which has cleared since I cleaned and swapped them), and a couple codes (P1776 and P1777 as I recall) which had something to do with the timing and duration of the fault.

Happens when it's cold or warm.

I did run some seafoam in a tank of gas last week. Seemed to coincide with it getting worse (over a more wide rpm range) but that may just be coincidence.

Had a buddy once tell me that there is a sensor or solenoid on the transmission that could cause a multitude of problems (such as the stalling I was experiencing at the time), but can't seem to cross reference it by searching.

I haven't had any further codes. Maybe due to the limited ability of my OBDII code reader, or, nothing is showing up yet. Figured getting a diagnositc run on it by a BMW shop may be able to pull more codes.

Last edited by daverp; 02-09-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:15 PM
daverp daverp is offline
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Well, just got back from the garage.

He found no codes, other than for the water pump (don't remember what code specifically). Said all else was within parameters and looked normal. Said that unless I want to throw a lot of money at it chasing down the problem, would be best to wait a little while and see if it gets worse and throws any codes.
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:01 PM
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I'm still wondering about spark plugs (or coils) as plugs were due at 100,000 miles and may have been missed in the turnover from dealer service to after. Do you know when / if they were changed?

Your detailed description of the cars behavior leads my thinking in this direction!
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2013, 03:37 PM
ebloom ebloom is offline
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I've noticed this recently on my 2007 328xit. 109K miles. Its not bad, but noticeable sometimes. Almost like it wants to be in a lower gear. Plugs were replaced around 99K miles, so its probably not that. For now I'm planning to ignore it, not worth a large diagnostic bill that may not solve anything.
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2013, 03:44 PM
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johnc_22 johnc_22 is offline
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I had this exact symptom in my 335i (engine shudder when quicly accelerating in 5th or 6th gear while cruising on the interstate). Carbon build up on intake valves. I don't know if the N52 is as susceptible to this as the N54, but dealer did the walnut blast when fixing some other issues and the problem is resolved.
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:22 PM
daverp daverp is offline
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Replaced plugs, and the car runs exactly the same (shudder between 1500 and 2100 rpm).

Driving with it over the last week or so on long highway drives, I've noticed this....

-Shudder when transmission in normal mode, and low load increase.
-Also noticeable in sport mode, but less so as the car is not in that rpm range often.
-In Manual mode, and selecting a gear to keep it in that rpm range, the shudder is not there.

Beginning to think torque converter issues? I imagine if it were any kind of an engine issue, the shudder would still be there under the same load conditions while in manual mode.

Also, in reading up on different tranny issues, I wonder if a failing battery could cause this? I haven't thrown a meter on it yet, but believe the battery is going. Slower turnerover during starts, and if accessories are left on for a while (20 minutes), much slower turning over.

I've read how with a failing battery our cars transmissions will sometimes go into "safe mode", but is it possible a low battery could be causing coverter lock up problems or otherwise affecting the transmission creating this shudder?

Last edited by daverp; 02-17-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-18-2013, 05:24 AM
ebloom ebloom is offline
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Replaced my original battery last fall (still seemed OK, but had a slow crank one cold morning, so decided that 6 years and 100K miles was good enough.)
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2013, 11:05 AM
daverp daverp is offline
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Well, looks like I've got it isolated to the torque converter.

Added 2 x 2oz tubes of the "Dr Tranny shudder fix" yesterday. Took it for a 40 mile drive, and also took a few loops on a several mile stretch where the shudder would show up really bad (moderate incline, moderate speed hill). The shudder looks to be 95% eliminated. I'm not sure I'm feeling it at all now, and a couple times I thought it was coming on, I'd drop into manual mode, and it would remain (road vibrations). On the 55 mile drive to work this morning, nothing. I'm hopeful, at least for now, this has worked.

I also did the "adaptive transmission reset". Should have driven it after I did that, but didn't, and pulled it into the garage the next morning to do the work. Not sure if the "reset" (which I know there is some controversy about if it even works) did anything, or if it was the adding of the shudder fix fluid, but it is shifting / downshifting much more as should be expected.

There was no signs of leaks on the tranny. As I put in the 4 oz, none leaked back out. As far as I know (bought it as a CPO vehicle) the tranny has never been serviced, but wondering if fluid could be low.

I'd like to do a pan drop / filter change / refill, but I'm nervous about that as the car has 135k miles on it now, and am worried about a drain and fill making things worse.

Last edited by daverp; 02-19-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2013, 07:52 AM
dformica dformica is offline
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how do you add anything to the transmission without a dipstick
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:36 AM
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It could be many, many things, but I'd believe it to be injectors, carbon buildup or coils. I'm dealing with similar mild symptoms right now and have narrowed it to those. My 335i is a manual though, so torque converter isn't a point of failure :-) please keep us posted how this goes!

Btw, if there is no dipstick there should still be a filling bolt and a drain bolt. That's probably how he topped it up.
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  #16  
Old 03-28-2013, 07:45 PM
daverp daverp is offline
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Yes, I added through the fill plug on the tranny.

I've put about 3k miles on it since adding the shudder stop, and it has not come back once. Car is running like a dream. Keeping fingers crossed.
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2013, 12:36 AM
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Gig103 Gig103 is offline
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I've felt this a few times on my 335xi but with a manual transmission, when in 6th and giving it moderate throttle without downshifting. My injectors were replaced 30k miles ago, my spark plugs only 4k ago. No codes so I'm just letting it go for now or chalking it up to the car struggling being in too tall a gear.
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2013, 08:49 AM
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My latest theory based on some other threads is Flywheel. I've ruled out all signs of a misfire. The engine is running fine.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16218
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2013, 07:21 PM
daverp daverp is offline
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Wanted to post an update to this...maybe someone else will give it a shot and benefit.

I've now put 16k miles on since I added the Dr. Tranny Shudder Fix (yeah, I drive A LOT).

There has not been so much as a hint of the problem returning. Definitely worth a try before you go the route of having the torque converter / tranny done.
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