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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 02-08-2013, 01:52 PM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Dakota leather question.........

Hi Guys (and Gals, if applicable)!

We just bought a 2012 Demo 335i sedan and we like most things about the car, except the Dakota leather seats are Painfully stiff/firm.

We have 2013 528ix this weekend for a loaner to see if the seats are better, and the next step is to have an auto upholstery shop change the base cushion foam on the seat to something that is more comfortable.

Sorry for the rambling, but does anyone have any ideas as to how to soften the leather or fix this problem?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:06 PM
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CE750Jockey CE750Jockey is offline
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I hear ya, FreddyG. I don't have a solution, only sympathy. The Dakota "leather" is leather in name only. It's not very comfortable, attractive, soft, aromatic, or anything else we'd associate with nice auto leather. It just isn't. IF there's a plus side, it's that since it's a step up from vinyl/plastic, it'll probably wear better. Other than that, it sucks.
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:12 PM
DavidM1975 DavidM1975 is offline
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I guess it depends on your expectations and what you are used to. What were you driving before? I find those seats absolutely perfect but then I don't like to fall into the seat in my car. Stiff is nice, supportive and healthier for longer drives. Maybe it's a matter of getting used to them?
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:43 PM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
I hear ya, FreddyG. I don't have a solution, only sympathy. The Dakota "leather" is leather in name only. It's not very comfortable, attractive, soft, aromatic, or anything else we'd associate with nice auto leather. It just isn't. IF there's a plus side, it's that since it's a step up from vinyl/plastic, it'll probably wear better. Other than that, it sucks.
Thanks for the reply CE750Jockey! I agree about it sucking!

I guess that would be the silver lining to the gray cloud!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM1975 View Post
I guess it depends on your expectations and what you are used to. What were you driving before? I find those seats absolutely perfect but then I don't like to fall into the seat in my car. Stiff is nice, supportive and healthier for longer drives. Maybe it's a matter of getting used to them?
Thanks for your reply David!

We traded our 2004 E500 Mercedes for it, and I guess didn't take a long enough test drive! We bought the car new and the seats were nice from day one and just got better as they formed to our butts!

It was a Dumb And Expensive move!

We also have an 11 Audi S5 for a fun car and it has Great seats in it too (made with REAL, soft Leather, not the BMW type stuff). No problems with those seats.

My wife has back and tail bone issues and harder isn't better!

We'll see what the upholstery Guy can do!
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:47 PM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
I hear ya, FreddyG. I don't have a solution, only sympathy. The Dakota "leather" is leather in name only. It's not very comfortable, attractive, soft, aromatic, or anything else we'd associate with nice auto leather. It just isn't. IF there's a plus side, it's that since it's a step up from vinyl/plastic, it'll probably wear better. Other than that, it sucks.
Thanks for the reply CE750Jockey!

I guess that would be the silver lining to the gray cloud!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidM1975 View Post
I guess it depends on your expectations and what you are used to. What were you driving before? I find those seats absolutely perfect but then I don't like to fall into the seat in my car. Stiff is nice, supportive and healthier for longer drives. Maybe it's a matter of getting used to them?
Thanks for your reply David!

We traded our 2004 E500 Mercedes for it, and I guess didn't take a long enough test drive! We bought the car new and the seats were nice from day one and just got better as they formed to our butts!

It was a Dumb And Expensive move!

We also have an 11 Audi S5 for a fun car and it has Great seats in it too (made with REAL, soft Leather, not the BMW type stuff). No problems with those seats.

My wife has back and tail bone issues and harder isn't better!

We'll see what the upholstery Guy can do!
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2013, 02:58 PM
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Curious - do you know if your E500 had actual leather seats? Odds are high it had MBTex, which is Merc's version of leatherette.

The leather in the 3er is virtually the same as has been in the it since at least the E46, which had Montana leather. The Dakota leather is supposed to be one step up from Montana.

Being that you're coming from a Merc E Class, what made you decide on a 3er rather than a 5er? In the 5er you could have gotten Nappa leather.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:02 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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The type of upholstery used is not going to make a seat harder or softer. The firmness of the seat is determined by the construction of the seat, i.e. the springs the padding, etc. The upholstery material itself will have little influence on seat firmness or softness.

CA
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:03 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
The leather in the 3er is virtually the same as has been in the it since at least the E46, which had Montana leather. The Dakota leather is supposed to be one step up from Montana.
My old E39 also had Montana leather, which IMO is softer than Dakota. The Dakota does look thicker and more durable than Montana, but only time will tell.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:32 PM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Curious - do you know if your E500 had actual leather seats? Odds are high it had MBTex, which is Merc's version of leatherette.

The leather in the 3er is virtually the same as has been in the it since at least the E46, which had Montana leather. The Dakota leather is supposed to be one step up from Montana.

Being that you're coming from a Merc E Class, what made you decide on a 3er rather than a 5er? In the 5er you could have gotten Nappa leather.
Thanks for the reply!

First, Sorry for the double post.

No Sir, the Original window sticker said that it was leather, and since the seats were ventilated, I know for a fact that they were real leather.

My wife liked the looks of the 3 better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
The type of upholstery used is not going to make a seat harder or softer. The firmness of the seat is determined by the construction of the seat, i.e. the springs the padding, etc. The upholstery material itself will have little influence on seat firmness or softness.

CA
Thank You!

According to the auto upholstery guy, seats nowadays don't have springs in them, but I do agree about the foam/cushion part. Sometimes though the hardness of the seams and where they lie on our hip/back, etc can cause discomfort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
My old E39 also had Montana leather, which IMO is softer than Dakota. The Dakota does look thicker and more durable than Montana, but only time will tell.
Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddyG View Post
Hi Guys (and Gals, if applicable)!

We just bought a 2012 Demo 335i sedan and we like most things about the car, except the Dakota leather seats are Painfully stiff/firm.

We have 2013 528ix this weekend for a loaner to see if the seats are better, and the next step is to have an auto upholstery shop change the base cushion foam on the seat to something that is more comfortable.

Sorry for the rambling, but does anyone have any ideas as to how to soften the leather or fix this problem?

Thanks in advance.
What model do you have? Sport, Luxury, Modern or Base? I knw the sport seats (which I have) are stiffer and narrower. The Lux and Mod are more plush, I do not know about the Base.
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:04 PM
Dingers 335i Dingers 335i is offline
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One of the most common complaints raised by Merc owner transplants.
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
What model do you have? Sport, Luxury, Modern or Base? I knw the sport seats (which I have) are stiffer and narrower. The Lux and Mod are more plush, I do not know about the Base.
Thanks for your reply!

We have the Luxury model and if they are softer than the others, you Guys might as well be riding on a wooden seat!

Maybe they'll get better in time, but if not, then we'll see what the upholsterer can do.
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  #13  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:49 PM
Dingers 335i Dingers 335i is offline
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They won't soften up much, if any. I had non-sport seats in my '08 E93. I was constantly reminded that my wallet was in my back pocket. Currently, my 335 has sport seats. I can't drive with my wallet!!

BMW designs their seats to transmit all driving feedback and comfort for a sport experience. Mercedes designs more comfort in their seats for a less sport driver.
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  #14  
Old 02-08-2013, 04:52 PM
Pappy Pipes Pappy Pipes is offline
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Wasn't fond of the seats on the Lux or Modern line. The M Sport seats are a big step up in support and comfort, IMO. I'm coming from a MBZ 300E which has exceptionally comfortable seats. I haven't taken delivery yet, so time will tell if the sport seats stand the test of time.
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:00 PM
ehchan ehchan is offline
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The most comfortable seats I've ever driven in was a W211 E350 with MB-Tex... I drove nearly 800 miles one day and my butt was not sore at all... It's mostly the foam in the seat that matters most. Worst luxury seats for distance were a Lexus... Padding wasn't firm enough... Well, nothing in a Lexus is firm enough :P
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  #16  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:37 PM
inChargeOfIT inChargeOfIT is offline
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Also, good quality leather may feel 'hard' or firm, but will soften over time. Think about how hard and stiff a new leather wallet or belt is when you first buy it.. they soften and wear in as you use them. Cushioning is different and is a matter of preference. I prefer a firm supportive seat over a soft plushy one, just like I prefer a firmer mattress over a soft one.
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Like my vehicle seats like my woman- firm and quiet. LOL

Love the sport seats and they will soften a bit over time.
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  #18  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:05 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inChargeOfIT View Post
Also, good quality leather may feel 'hard' or firm, but will soften over time. Think about how hard and stiff a new leather wallet or belt is when you first buy it.. they soften and wear in as you use them. Cushioning is different and is a matter of preference. I prefer a firm supportive seat over a soft plushy one, just like I prefer a firmer mattress over a soft one.
Common! I've been driving cars with leather seats for umpteen years now. The seats in our Luxury 328i are by far the hardest seats of any car we have ever owned.

When I'm behind the wheel, they are just passable as far as comfort. However, as a passenger, I agree with my wife, they are the worst, most punishing seats we've ever had in a car. Even the seats in our 2004 E46 where more comfortable.

We got the 2013 328i on the very same day and from the same company my son got his Volvo, corporate owner of BMW, Volvo, VW, Porsche in Ft Worth. You want to feel what an outstandingly designed car seat feels like, try out the orthopedically designed seats in the Volvo (I think it is a T5). It makes the BMW seats feel like hard wooden church pews! On top of it, they are not ventilated. Even cheaper Korean cars offer ventilated seats these days! Also, the Volvo leather looks and feels much more luxurious. I am not a fan of basketball/football type leather covering any tip of furniture...

Last edited by HugH; 02-08-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:17 PM
inChargeOfIT inChargeOfIT is offline
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I hear you.. my last ride was a Porsche Boxter and the seats were perfect.. not too firm, not too soft. But, the leather was not as thick and after a few years, I started having those worn out spots and after 5 years, I got the cracking. The soft 'supple' leather tends to be smooth and stretches. The hard leather of my '13 335i just seems like it will withstand the years. This is my first BMW though. If you really want comfort, the 5 series with the active seating and ventilation seems like a dream.

Wonder why there is not a Tempur Pedic + leather option out there yet. ... Tempur-Seatic (tm) hehe
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  #20  
Old 02-08-2013, 10:04 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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One of the most common complaints raised by Merc owner transplants.
In my test driving, I've found MB > BMW > Audi for seat comfort. MB is just amazing. They seem to have cushioning in all the right places even though the seats are otherwise quite firm.
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  #21  
Old 02-08-2013, 11:24 PM
bimmerfan3 bimmerfan3 is offline
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In my test driving, I've found MB > BMW > Audi for seat comfort. MB is just amazing. They seem to have cushioning in all the right places even though the seats are otherwise quite firm.
I'm assuming you are comparing the C300/C350, E90/F30, A4/S4, right? Did the ones you sat in have Sports Package? My experience is that the C class seats were not very comfortable. I found the E90/F30 and A4/S4 seats with Sports Package felt more comfortable.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:46 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is offline
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I'm assuming you are comparing the C300/C350, E90/F30, A4/S4, right? Did the ones you sat in have Sports Package? My experience is that the C class seats were not very comfortable. I found the E90/F30 and A4/S4 seats with Sports Package felt more comfortable.
There was a drive for the team event by BMW 2 years ago where I tested C300/E350/535i-M-sport (F10)/335i-M-sport (E90), plus test drives of the 328i E90 (regular), and last year's drive for the team event where I drove the 328i no line F30. For Audi, I'm basing it off test drives of the A4, and just sitting in an S4. (I had much longer time in an S5 on a track, but at that time, I didn't have the back issues that I have been plagued with for the last 2 years or so and as a result didn't pay much attention to seat comfort.)

So I had these back problems, and my current car, which had always been comfortable prior, suddenly didn't feel all that great and I thought that's the way it's going to be forever. Except that when I drove the MB's at that event, the first thing I noticed was "wow...back discomfort is gone". And then I had similar experience test driving the C250/C350 coupes. The sport seats in the F10 were probably the next best. The E90 seats were no better than my current car (regardless of sport or not). The F30 seats are definitely an improvement over the E90's, but not as good as MB's. The A4 standard seats were by far the hardest...I can't imagine how anyone with back issues can live with that car.

Of course, these drives were only 10-20 min, so can't say for sure if my analysis would be the same if I were to drive them for extended periods of time.
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Last edited by mr_clueless; 02-08-2013 at 11:53 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:12 AM
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krash krash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
The type of upholstery used is not going to make a seat harder or softer. The firmness of the seat is determined by the construction of the seat, i.e. the springs the padding, etc. The upholstery material itself will have little influence on seat firmness or softness.

CA
Exactly.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:26 AM
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Unfortunately, seats are the one thing you really can't get a good feel for in a typical test drive. You really need to drive the car for about an hour or more before you can either appreciate them or dislike them.

During the test drive, they felt very nice, but would I have thought so after 3 hours of non-stop driving?

To be honest, that's the one concern I do have with the car I ordered.

I never had any issues with the seats in the E90, but this time I'm getting sport seats, so i guess i'll find out if I like them or not after my first 3 hour trip.
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  #25  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:10 AM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Thanks Guys for all of your replies and input! I do Appreciate it!

I had an invitation to an Audi driving event at the Autobahn Country Club near our home, and had the Pleasure to drive all of Audi's S-line of cars, including the R8 (Audi's version of the M Series from BMW) and have to say that in that line of cars, those were tied with the Best seats that I've Ever sat in. The leather was soft, the seams were in the right places, the cushions were soft, yet still firm enough to support me at race track speeds, and were just overall Great seats.

I said tied for the best seats because we had a 2007 BMW X5 4.8i that had the Active cooled, ventilated multi contour seats in it, and those were Absolutely Incredible! If I could fit those in this car, I'd have no complaints (my wife says that I'd still find something to complain about though, but that's a whole different story )
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