In your face F30 drivers!

Originally Posted by BashedBarrique

OK Mr./Ms. Nitpicker. My mistake. And shouldn't there be an "a" in between "is" and "company" in your post?

No biggie here, but you do know that you would have been blasted against the wall had you said that on a Honda/Acura forum?
It was probably a typo anyway because my phone keeps autocorrecting it to tech.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

No biggie here, but you do know that you would have been blasted against the wall had you said that on a Honda/Acura forum?
It was probably a typo anyway because my phone keeps autocorrecting it to tech.

I probably put the "H" in myself. I respect Hondas (had a 1993 Civic that was a great little car) but I'm not a Honda guy. (I would take an NSX though.)

Yeah and those Honda kids are ruthless!

Originally Posted by BashedBarrique

Just so you don't get the wrong idea. I think Z4's are great cars with either the 4 or the 6 cylinder engine. I just think a 3300lb luxury/sports sedan with a 4 cylinder is a stretch.

Before I bought my 325i I drove several Acura TSX's with the 2.4 liter four and they were buzzy and lacked torque and overall smoothness. And that's a Honda V-tech engine that is one of the best fours around.

I know that the F30 is a different beast (turbo, balance shafts etc.) but it's still a four cylinder and that's a label that no other sports/luxury car has pulled off in the past.

I am not trying to stir you towards the n20, however understand that the engine develops plenty of torque and power for a four cylinder - it delivers more of torque/hp than the inline six n52 it replaced. As yourself however, I have my reservations about the harmony the new n20 can deliver to the BMW line up. But history tends to repeat itself.

I had a Lotus Turbo Esprit so I know what a four is capable of...

That said, no four banger ever really sounds good.

I think I'd get a diesel in the future before some super duper charged blown 3 or 4 cylinder gasoline engine

And, they can keep that fake engine sounds coming through the speakers garbage. No way.

Anyone who doesn't accept that the n20 is a compromise motor is living in denial.

The BMW fanboys and groupies of the future will make the same arguments supporting BMW FWD as the current fanboys and groupies supporting the n20. Watch.

Oh dear.... Thread like this will p..... F30 owners off

Haha this again!

Originally Posted by lqaddict

I am not trying to stir you towards the n20, however understand that the engine develops plenty of torque and power for a four cylinder - it delivers more of torque/hp than the inline six n52 it replaced. As yourself however, I have my reservations about the harmony the new n20 can deliver to the BMW line up. But history tends to repeat itself.

The N20 is certainly a technological advance over the N51/N52/N53/N54 series engines. But there is something to be said for the "soul" of a car. I fear that there may soon come a day when even the mighty M3 is whirring along with a (gasp) electric motor (no internal combustion engines allowed thank you CO2 boy).

Will it be faster and more efficient? Surely. Will something be lost?

For those of us that have petroleum in our veins and revere the sound of a naturally aspirated inline six, V8 or even V12 engine, the answer is ABSOLUTELY!

Lets not forget the original 3-series and M3 had 4-bangers.

Originally Posted by BashedBarrique

Suggestion: Make less suggestions.

"Fewer", not less.

Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad

That said, no four banger ever really sounds good.

Maybe modern 4s.


Drive an old Alfa Romeo ;-)
The Fiat always brings a smile as well...

And from Germany...
Porsche 914

And there was the Offenhauser four that dominated the Indianapolis 500, and other American open wheel racing for over 50 years.

Still, 4 cylinder four cycle engines are never going to be as balanced (with out band-aids like balance shafts) as an inline six, V8 or V12. And the sound, while having its own charm, is never going to rival that of those other engines.

Originally Posted by rsitnick

And from Germany...
Porsche 914

The 356 Series Porsche had a Volkswagen based 4 Cylinder engine. That engine was carried over for the first few years of the 911. The 4 cylinder versions were called 912s and the 6 cylinder versions were called 911s.
The 912 was made from 1965 until 1969.

CA

Old subject is old.

I will defend the F30 as follows; the E90 was NOT well received in 2005 in the E46 crowd. Same was the case wit the E46 in 1998 which was judged overweight and too much like a 5-series. Its steering was not liked and BMW revised it 2 years later.

I have zero compatibility with the N20, a terrible engine unfit for a BMW, IMO. I would not get one without an after market exhaust and so far, I haven't heard one that pleased my ears. My gripe is that if I want an F30 I6, I have to buy a 55K$ 335i (it was possible to get a 42K$ E90 328i I6 2 years ago). Unacceptable to see longer brake distances and unexplainable that the steering feel went to the toilet.

Once past this, the F30 can be an attractive car.





I like the new F34 too.

Originally Posted by bear-avhistory

Had an new 328 as a loner when my car was in for service this week. It was a 4 door but was quick, competent & got good mileage. Seat of the pants it seemed quicker then my 330Ci.

I too, have driven brand new 328i loaners over the past couple of weeks while my 2010 E90 was being serviced. The F90 is quick, smooth - I noticed only minimal turbo lag. I did notice the F90's engine sound during routine city driving is a little reminiscent of other 4 cyl - some mechanical cacophony that i don't hear in my E90.

Where I find the F90 a little off the mark (compared to E90) is the interior design has taken a turn toward the plastic look and feel of some Japanese cars. Not too much, but I prefer the solid, efficient interior of my E90.

Originally Posted by Saintor

Old subject is old.

I will defend the F30 as follows; the E90 was NOT well received in 2005 in the E46 crowd. Same was the case wit the E46 in 1998 which was judged overweight and too much like a 5-series. Its steering was not liked and BMW revised it 2 years later.

I have zero compatibility with the N20, a terrible engine unfit for a BMW, IMO. I would not get one without an after market exhaust and so far, I haven't heard one that pleased my ears. My gripe is that if I want an F30 I6, I have to buy a 55K$ 335i (it was possible to get a 42K$ E90 328i I6 2 years ago). Unacceptable to see longer brake distances and unexplainable that the steering feel went to the toilet.

Once past this, the F30 can be an attractive car.





I like the new F34 too.

As I said, I'm sure it's a great car overall. C&D just thought it was moving away from the athletic chassis/steering/handling superiority that has defined BMWs for years.

I like the look of the F30 sedan (it doesn't really look that different from the E90) but that hatchback may take some getting used to.

Originally Posted by Saintor

I will defend the F30 as follows; the E90 was NOT well received in 2005 in the E46 crowd. Same was the case wit the E46 in 1998 which was judged overweight and too much like a 5-series. Its steering was not liked and BMW revised it 2 years later.

+1, best defense of the F30 so far in my opinion. I personally think they are very attractive cars, real slick looking, and wouldn't mind getting myself into one for a test drive. I'm not saying my loyalty has changed - still love my little E90 to death.

Originally Posted by Robcromar

I too, have driven brand new 328i loaners over the past couple of weeks while my 2010 E90 was being serviced. The F90 is quick, smooth - I noticed only minimal turbo lag. I did notice the F90's engine sound during routine city driving is a little reminiscent of other 4 cyl - some mechanical cacophony that i don't hear in my E90.

Where I find the F90 a little off the mark (compared to E90) is the interior design has taken a turn toward the plastic look and feel of some Japanese cars. Not too much, but I prefer the solid, efficient interior of my E90.

The major bitch I had with the interior is the nav screen stuck on top of the dash. Our X3 has the same thing & its not very attractive IMHO.

2012 called, it wants it's issue of Car and Driver back.

The difference with this opinion isn't that it's groupies and fanboys making the case, it's the professional automotive opinion class:


"We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against an F30." - Car and Driver

I would not be happy if I were an early f30 buyer.
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.
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I test drove a sport line F30 a few weeks ago. It was definitely faster than my 2006 330i. It was also a smoother ride, soaking up bumps much better. The increased space is nice when you start thinking about having car seats and kids in a car but don't want the increased size/decreased handling of the F10. However, for me personally, while the F30 had great traction, it also had a lot of body roll and felt as though it were sprung more softly than my car. The engine definitely does not have BMW's historic sound, but it isn't bad (I also have a Saab 9-5 Aero and happen to really like turbo-4's). For me, personally, I prefer the feel of my car, with heavier steering effort and very little body roll with a stiffer suspension. Also, the brakes in the F30 I drove did not seem as aggressive as the brakes in my car. I think the comment in the magazine review (which I read when it came out) was not speaking strictly of engines or straight-line acceleration. I think the article was referring to suspension feel and performance. I think that most of the time, when people reference a sport sedan, there is an expectation of a firm suspension with flat handling characteristics. The F30, for me, does not drive that way. It's a nice vehicle with a lot to like, it's just not my preference. I will state that I also owned an E46 with sport package. It drove quite well, but I prefer the E90. I have been test driving BMWs every year since 2008 and test driven all of their series except the Alpina B7. My personal tastes prefer what I perceive to be a sportier drive present in the E46 and E90 over the F30 and F10. I think BMW has softened the cars with a focus on better efficiency and straight line comfort. This is neither good nor bad, if you dissociate nostalgia and memories from current vehicle line-ups. For me, I don't buy vehicles because I love BMW or Infiniti, or anything else. I drive whatever vehicle I like that fits my budget. I don't care for the F30, so I will probably not buy one and will probably look to other manufacturers in the future. However, I'm sure there are many who will look at BMW, like their vehicles, and buy them. I think it's good to objectively rate driving experiences. Most would probably agree with a back-to-back that the F30 is slightly softer with more body roll and lighter steering effort than the E90, just as most feel the E90 gave up some road and steering feedback over the E46. I don't think it matters if someone critiques the F30 or makes statements that the F30 is a departure from the driving feel of previous versions. None of those statements harm anyone. If BMW wants to make a more comfort-oriented vehicle, they can, and those who want to drive them will buy them. Those who want vehicles that have a more traditional performance feel will buy something else.

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

2012 called, it wants it's issue of Car and Driver back.

The article was from four months ago. It's not like it was from the Civil War era.

Originally Posted by BashedBarrique

The article was from four months ago. It's not like it was from the Civil War era.

That's four months late. This was already posted four months ago. If you had used something called the search function(Which Kat has been so nicely to make a tutorial on) you would of known.