Are all X5's from South Carolina?

Can you specify the reasons?

Originally Posted by solstice

You are right and wrong. The workforce does matter and I have worked in one.

You are the exception then.

One instance - production processes in Japan have different assembly fixtures/jigs for installing dashboards than the USA (even though it's the same exact car). Why? Japanese people are smaller and can fit into places that an american worker couldn't. Also the american health and safety standards are different than other countries which would cause processes to alter.

Also the discussion of "in spec" and "to target" comes into play when you are talking about different manufacturing locations.

That said, made in Germany all the way for me (when it comes to BMW)!

My tenure was only short and almost 30 years ago but I have friends that worked at SAAB until it closed down and they are now transferred to other SAAB companies. I also have friends at Volvo. They are all some level of management these days and if you tell them people doesn't matter they will laugh. It's not IPhones or DVD players we are talking about here, it's large complex machinery that requires a dedicated skilled work force to consistently deliver high quality. The Japanese have done a successful transfer into the US and I think the X5 is proof that BMW has as well, still, given the choice I prefer German built and that it enables ED doesn't hurt, it's THE way to buy a European car.

Originally Posted by solstice

My tenure was only short and almost 30 years ago but I have friends that worked at SAAB until it closed down and they are now transferred to other SAAB companies. I also have friends at Volvo. They are all some level of management these days and if you tell them people doesn't matter they will laugh. It's not IPhones or DVD players we are talking about here, it's large complex machinery that requires a dedicated skilled work force to consistently deliver high quality. The Japanese have done a successful transfer into the US and I think the X5 is proof that BMW has as well, still, given the choice I prefer German built and that it enables ED doesn't hurt, it's THE way to buy a European car.

Yup, you are spot on. I think spartanburg quality has also stepped up (I'm talking in terms of paint and interior assy). BMW AG quality to me is still higher, I think Rosslyn quality is the worst of the 3.

Wow-- I've really kicked up a fuss with my seemingly innocent question.

I've got to say that if there was a choice I'd buy a car assembled in the US over somewhere else for patriotic reasons unless there was a clear difference in quality. I don't think there is one here.

FWIW, I said I had an Accord ('95) built in Ohio. I live in California, so most accords here were from Japan. I sought out an American assembled one on the lot and that's what I bought. I sold it 120,000 miles later with no repairs. So Americans can assemble cars as well as the Japanese, etc. I remember reading about the GM-Toyotal Plant out here (NUMI) having the highest quality ratings in all of toyota.

I thank everyone for your comments. We might be in the market for an X3 soon. I'd be glad to get one from SC.

Originally Posted by Stevej2001

Wow-- I've really kicked up a fuss with my seemingly innocent question.

I've got to say that if there was a choice I'd buy a car assembled in the US over somewhere else for patriotic reasons unless there was a clear difference in quality. I don't think there is one here.

FWIW, I said I had an Accord ('95) built in Ohio. I live in California, so most accords here were from Japan. I sought out an American assembled one on the lot and that's what I bought. I sold it 120,000 miles later with no repairs. So Americans can assemble cars as well as the Japanese, etc. I remember reading about the GM-Toyotal Plant out here (NUMI) having the highest quality ratings in all of toyota.

I thank everyone for your comments. We might be in the market for an X3 soon. I'd be glad to get one from SC.

Quite the thread!

To be honest, any vehicle manufactured improperly will be a trouble maker regardless of the factory location or workforce. Its just how life works. That being said, BMW vehicles assembled in SC have issues with paint (orange peel) compared to the vehicles assembled in Germany. The SC vehicles, seem to be a bit more trouble prone (based solely on the number of threads relating to mfg quality) than their European counterparts. However where there is quality issues, you have the warranty to kick in and provide a safety net. So enjoy!

Originally Posted by Kar Don

Haha this is so funny. Clearly you've (actually everyone in this thread) never seen the workings of an automotive plant other than a factory tour. Workforce is hugely important and nationality DOES make a difference despite what you guys want to believe...and it is for different reasons than you might think.

Why don't you inform all us ignorant folks???

Clearly a skilled workforce is important, but unless you can cite specifics with american workforce being inferior to the competition, you are just speculating. If the American workforce was so poor and causing serious warranty issues, the factory would invest in capital to prevent those issues (cameras/torque sensing tools/etc). Factories are measured not only on output but on quality, if either of those is lagging it is corrected with capital.

Jay

If an american spearhead company like Apple would manufacture products in the U.S.A. in parallell to Asia I would not only look for them I would be willing to pay a hefty premium. For a BMW, Porsche, IWC, Ferrari, Riva etc. no way I would choose Made in the U.S.A if I have the choice. I prefer the mother ship from start to finish unless it's British...

Granted my choice would be different as the CFO of a company answering to a CEO, board and ultimately shareholders looking to buy a large quantity of quality components. If I could have them for 20% less if manufactured in a lower cost plant I would have no choice but to go for it but for personal luxury consumption there's no way I'd select anything but the mother ship given the choice.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

Quite the thread!

That being said, BMW vehicles assembled in SC have issues with paint (orange peel) compared to the vehicles assembled in Germany.

Actually, I've noticed the reverse, with the German-source vehicles in the show room, such as a 5 series, having worse orange peel than my 2004 Red Z4 and my 2010 Space Gray X5.

Originally Posted by solstice

If an american spearhead company like Apple would manufacture products in the U.S.A. in parallell to Asia I would not only look for them I would be willing to pay a hefty premium.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of people around like you. Many people say this, but when it's time to pay the premium for US sourcing, they don't follow through.

Back in the 1980's, or early 1990's, I remember the company that sells Eureka camping tents tried this parallel sourcing -- one of their most popular models of tents was available as Korean-sourced, or sourced from one of the New England states (Vermont or New Hampshire?). I believe the price difference was $140 vs. $180. The tents were identical except for their place of manufacture.

It seems few people would pay the extra $40, and the US-source one was dropped.

Originally Posted by Penguin

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of people around like you. Many people say this, but when it's time to pay the premium for US sourcing, they don't follow through.

Back in the 1980's, or early 1990's, I remember the company that sells Eureka camping tents tried this parallel sourcing -- one of their most popular models of tents was available as Korean-sourced, or sourced from one of the New England states (Vermont or New Hampshire?). I believe the price difference was $140 vs. $180. The tents were identical except for their place of manufacture.

It seems few people would pay the extra $40, and the US-source one was dropped.

For anything but exclusive high-end items ( which Apple is not making ) I think you are correct. The majority just wants the cheapest versions.

Things haven't changed at all, The US and Australia make crap looking cars, the quality is also suspect, the Italians make good looking cars but their quality sucks, The English don't make anything at all anymore apart from overpriced Range Rovers, so that's pretty hard to stuff up, The French make weird looking cars, if they weren't so weird i might actually buy one, The Japanese still make excellent cars as they have done for 20 years now, unfortunately Japan has no imagination anymore and it shows in their cars, The Koreans are improving rapidly but a Hyundai is still a Hyundai no matter how much it tries not to be...............................Germans design and build better cars than everyone else.......... fact.

IMHO You cant replicate German build quality in foreign countries.

Does BMW make ANY car or SUV at BOTH usa and german plants?

if yes, then a comparison would be fantastic.

If no, then people are morons.

After seeing all of the complaints on the F10 forum, I'm surprised that people are touting German build quality here. My 650 hasn't left Germany yet and I already have a warranty claim to make the day it is redelivered.

And yet you bought one.


I'm not going to lie to you, there are things i find unacceptable in many BMW's, including the film that covers the interior that peels off, the crap plastic badges, the steering wheel quality, the crap plastic strips on the gear knob, the price of spare parts, not being able to simply replace the air filter or have a wheel alignment done, several BMW employees at dealerships who are complete wankers.............. and the list goes on.

But if BMW made the best cars at the best price and had the cheapest parts and cheapest service everyone would own one though and the world would be quite boring, although id hate to think they are not aiming to improve in many areas.

Well, I didn't mean to offend but I don't care if I do really. We can leave the insults to Ard.

Having lived in the US and driven all manner of USA built / assembled /parts sourced cars, I cannot think of one which doesn't have poor build quality. The plastics are awful and the cars generally rattle, but, they are quite rugged and last a long time.

Moron or not, my observation is that the build quality and standard of some plastics on my new X5 are below much cheaper cars. The build quality and interior noise levels / rattles and creaks are worse than that on my previous two Range Rover Sports. I was going to get an X6 next but no way of its built in the same place as the X5. I will be visiting Land Rover for my next car, probably.

Originally Posted by Kar Don

That said, made in Germany all the way for me (when it comes to BMW)!

Fascinating. Your sig says you have an E70. How in the world did you get an E70 "made in Germany"? You must have friends in very high places. (Either that or you are completely full of sh*t).

Originally Posted by bkhk

Well, I didn't mean to offend but I don't care if I do really. We can leave the insults to Ard.

Having lived in the US and driven all manner of USA built / assembled /parts sourced cars, I cannot think of one which doesn't have poor build quality. The plastics are awful and the cars generally rattle, but, they are quite rugged and last a long time.

Moron or not, my observation is that the build quality and standard of some plastics on my new X5 are below much cheaper cars. The build quality and interior noise levels / rattles and creaks are worse than that on my previous two Range Rover Sports. I was going to get an X6 next but no way of its built in the same place as the X5. I will be visiting Land Rover for my next car, probably.

The most horrifically poorly-assembled car I have ridden in was that dreadful Holden that GM brought over here and sold as a Pontiac. I am sure that if / when we get Chinese or Indian cars it will have some competition, but for now it has the title all to itself.

Of course, anyone who feels Land Rovers are the epitome of quality probably is more moron than not. Just sayin'.

PS: I think anyone who ever had one as a service loaner would agree that the BMW with the all time worst quality was the first gen X3. Which was built / assembled in Austria.

Originally Posted by RockChips

Toyotas/Lexus are built in America, and they are considered the highest build quality according to JDpower.

Please enlighten us which Lexus models are built in America and considered the highest build quality.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

Quite the thread!

To be honest, any vehicle manufactured improperly will be a trouble maker regardless of the factory location or workforce. Its just how life works. That being said, BMW vehicles assembled in SC have issues with paint (orange peel) compared to the vehicles assembled in Germany. The SC vehicles, seem to be a bit more trouble prone (based solely on the number of threads relating to mfg quality) than their European counterparts. However where there is quality issues, you have the warranty to kick in and provide a safety net. So enjoy!

I agree that it doesn't really matter as defective cars can be built in any country or factory..
I disagree in regards to the orange peel as my 2007 525i metallic black sapphire had horrible orange peel paint and my 2010 535i sport was also pretty bad with orange peels... both cars are built in Germany.

Originally Posted by bkhk

Having lived in the US and driven all manner of USA built / assembled /parts sourced cars, I cannot think of one which doesn't have poor build quality.

Compare the paint of a cheap Ford, such as a Focus, vs. any BMW and tell me which one has terrible orange peel, and which one has virtually none.

Orange peel might not be the best indicator of build quality these days. It could be a result of a deliberate move to more environmental friendly paint components and technique. It can also be a result of wanting a more flexible paint that doesn't crack or chip as easily or lessens the size of the impacted area. Or this is just marketing bs and it's all down to cost savings with cheaper components, techniques and allowing bad paint jobs to pass through.

So yeah, I think people don't necessarily know what build quality really means..

Originally Posted by quackbury

Fascinating. Your sig says you have an E70. How in the world did you get an E70 "made in Germany"? You must have friends in very high places. (Either that or you are completely full of sh*t).

Wow it is fascinating! First of all it's not my sig, it's in my profile. To clarify, I have had an e46, e46 coupe, e70, f10 and f02. This means I've had German, USA, and SA built cars. Too bad, you must've felt like you nailed it! Sucks to have your bubble burst.

Originally Posted by Penguin

Compare the paint of a cheap Ford, such as a Focus, vs. any BMW and tell me which one has terrible orange peel, and which one has virtually none.

All cars have orange peel. Even the hand sanded Lexus LS460 still has it. The only exception may be rolls Royce and Bentley. I haven't had a close inspection of their paint finishes.

Quack

Not even people here in Australia laud the build quality of a Holden, which is a GM car = USA (again) Not many people drive them here which is why they will not survive. I have had 2 RRS and neither has had creaking plastics or a rattling tailgate. Even BMW knows their build quality is poor, they only fix squeaks and rattles for 12 months after new purchase under warranty. Land Rover don't have such a restriction.

Kzang

Maybe you have difficulty with English comprehension or you don't read further back than 2 posts. BUT, I have been clear in my build quality criticisms, creaking poor quality plastics and a rattling (probably poorly aligned) tailgate which is documented in many places on this forum.