BMW as a Dependable Car

in the land of both blind eyes (and bad taste car designers..)

these are the best looking / sexiest four doors... Korean Built Ssangyong



or this

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I would not call it(or pretty much any) 4dr sedan sexy.

I think my m sport is slightly sexy but tend to agree. Gotta day I like the exterior design of say an s6 a lot. I may just like spiced up boring things.

Originally Posted by Elk

I don't expect a BMW to be excitingly styled. The F30 certainly is not. It is a BMW after all. It competes nicely in styling with a 2013 Accord. I am continually amazed by those that assert the F30 is "sexy," "aggressive," and describe its engine as a "beast."

I can only conclude there are many that need to get out more.

Personally I like that the F30 is fairly anonymous and slips in as one of many. It is a nice daily driver/winter beater. One knows BMW is not going for impact when they offer the car in multiple shades of grey.

I have no problem with others being excited with the styling. If you find it striking, that's great.

I am in the market for a new car for my wife. I originally was going to save some money and looked at the new Accord. Heck my old E90 looks more sexy than that ugly beast. Funny story I visited my brother who's daughter is 5. While I was leaving she looked at my car and said cool car uncle Dave! The Accord in any color will never be cool lol.

Originally Posted by Elk

I don't expect a BMW to be excitingly styled. The F30 certainly is not. It is a BMW after all. It competes nicely in styling with a 2013 Accord.

That's ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into car design (I'm not talking about "ooh/ahh" popping smoke like a simply dramatically lowered roofline compromising interior space on a 4-door that makes some people go gaga).

Put an F30 next to an Accord and you'll see how much more refined and dynamic the BMW looks. Just because both are Sedans and the Accord has copied the Hofmeister kink doesn't make it BMW-esque in the least.

As for 4-Doors not being "sexy", I disagree. I've always though 4-Doors are some of the most attractive cars. A lot of that is because there's nothing awkward about a good 4-Door design, and when done right and dynamically, it will usually be the most timeless and easy-to-see-a-thousand-times designs out there, IMO. My favorite cars are typically conservative/timeless bases with some spicing up via tastefully aggressive packages.... gives a multi-character'd presence that could be stately when you need it to be, aggressive when you need it to be, conservative, sexy, etc., which I think the following several pics show pretty well....

I wouldn't have got my own 4-Door Sedan if I didn't think it had some sex appeal.

the F30 is designed to appeal to women (similar to some VWs like the jetta and the beetle), that's why it looks the way it does.

Originally Posted by chris328

the F30 is designed to appeal to women (similar to some VWs like the jetta and the beetle), that's why it looks the way it does.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Like the friggin' BEETLE? LOL.

I mean, it's a smaller Sedan so yeah there has to be some inherent "cuteness" to it, compared to more stately offerings like a 5 or 7 Series, but it's certainly no more feminine than the smiley faced/cheeky Star grin of the C-Class, which looks very much more-so marketed toward a female demographic to me.

The F30 certainly doesn't look any more "geared woman" than the E90 was. If anything, that front is so fussy and kinda weird it'd turnoff a female demographic, and the lines and character (aside from the front) is more mature and a smidge more stately than the E90. Not really feminine geared in comparison, in those aspects.

Originally Posted by chris328

the F30 is designed to appeal to women (similar to some VWs like the jetta and the beetle), that's why it looks the way it does.

Highly doubt it.

Women are happy to buy a car with styling geared towards men, but not the other way around. Designers do not pen designs that advance through a studio that are slanted towards being favored by women.

But that just comes from a professional design background and time at a large scale OEM design studio(the Beetle actually, where I was tasked with making the car LESS feminine), so what do I know. People can choose to keep their false hypothesis' instead.

so did you work for VW or an OEM design studio? that is strangely worded. anyways I really cant speak for car designers as I'm not one myself, but thats kind of a blanketing statement to make about engineers. I dont assume that every car is engineered the same across brands or even between models within brands. Thats just kind of a weird thing to say especially if you yourself worked on car designs.

Modern line for women, M Sport for dudes, Lux for professionals, and base for jumpers!

Originally Posted by chris328

so did you work for VW or an OEM design studio? that is strangely worded. anyways I really cant speak for car designers as I'm not one myself, but thats kind of a blanketing statement to make about engineers. I dont assume that every car is engineered the same across brands or even between models within brands. Thats just kind of a weird thing to say especially if you yourself worked on car designs.

I worked for VW which would be called an OEM. My design became the'05 show car called the Ragster. A lot of elements wound up on the'12 Beetle which is trending 40% more to men in sales.

Originally Posted by bam

ask everybody with the N54 engine and I'm sure they'll tell you that keeping that car past 100k or was it 120k (that bmw extended the warranty on the hpfp to) if they think the car will last and I'm sure they pause before answering.

If my n54 continues on as it is now and I was the kinda person to keep a car that long, without thinking I'd keep it. I got to see some pics yesterday of a 2007 335i running meth+cobb taking laps at a track in WV and just how much abuse it took and it was chugging along just fine.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I worked for VW which would be called an OEM. My design became the'05 show car called the Ragster. A lot of elements wound up on the'12 Beetle which is trending 40% more to men in sales.

nice, thats pretty cool. well sorry what I said about the beetle then, i just threw that out there cause I always see them with the fake plastic flowers in there and everything

The new Beetle is pretty dope actually. Wouldn't mind having one as a second car toy, though a car like that is kinda pointless IMO if it isn't a really fun drive and good handler.

Originally Posted by chris328

nice, thats pretty cool. well sorry what I said about the beetle then, i just threw that out there cause I always see them with the fake plastic flowers in there and everything

You didn't offend me lol.

The beetle was a chick car, they had the statistics to prove it. I was given limited resources to make it better which it is. Still chick car, but less so. Lol.

Originally Posted by K-A

That's ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into car design . . .

You are nicely arguing with a point not mine. I will not address your ad hominem comment.

Whether one prefers the look of one conservative four door sedan or another is merely a matter of preference. I will never argue with your personal view an F30 is "sexy," although I see nothing of the sort.

I strongly suspect for many that which makes the car interesting in appearance is the mere application of a roundel.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I worked for VW which would be called an OEM. My design became the'05 show car called the Ragster. A lot of elements wound up on the'12 Beetle which is trending 40% more to men in sales.

Nice!
If you're still there, could you have them throw in a high output 2.0T, quad exhaust, AWD version for us guys?
And get rid of those cheesey LED's in the front

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You didn't offend me lol.

The beetle was a chick car, they had the statistics to prove it. I was given limited resources to make it better which it is. Still chick car, but less so. Lol.

Good job! The new Beetle is a terrific update on the old one, kind of Porsche-like to me.

Originally Posted by K-A

That's ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into car design (I'm not talking about "ooh/ahh" popping smoke like a simply dramatically lowered roofline compromising interior space on a 4-door that makes some people go gaga).

Put an F30 next to an Accord and you'll see how much more refined and dynamic the BMW looks. Just because both are Sedans and the Accord has copied the Hofmeister kink doesn't make it BMW-esque in the least.

As for 4-Doors not being "sexy", I disagree. I've always though 4-Doors are some of the most attractive cars. A lot of that is because there's nothing awkward about a good 4-Door design, and when done right and dynamically, it will usually be the most timeless and easy-to-see-a-thousand-times designs out there, IMO. My favorite cars are typically conservative/timeless bases with some spicing up via tastefully aggressive packages.... gives a multi-character'd presence that could be stately when you need it to be, aggressive when you need it to be, conservative, sexy, etc., which I think the following several pics show pretty well....

I wouldn't have got my own 4-Door Sedan if I didn't think it had some sex appeal.

Most F10s look great, yours in particular. I like the F30 a lot but definitely prefer the F10 design. Also I agree with the poster who said 4 doors are some of the best looking cars on the market.

Originally Posted by SilverX3

It's behind industry average

VW is crap

I'm not a statistician by trade, but looking at this list, it appears the BMW comes in right around average.

Not sure how they figure "average"--maybe it's weighted based on numbers of units sold--but when I average out the 31 different nameplate listed, it comes out as 136.3, and the median comes out to 133--which is exactly what BMW is at. Heck, you can even see by the eyeball that half the nameplates are more reliable and half are less so.

The standard deviation of this list of almost 28, so even if you want to consider 126 as being average, BMW is way, way within one sigma deviation from the mean.

So if you're relying mainly on this chart to demonstrate that BMW is a steaming pile of unreliable crap, it falls short of that goal. You'll need to come up with something else, probably anecdotal, to make your point.

Originally Posted by chasfh

I'm not a statistician by trade, but looking at this list, it appears the BMW comes in right around average.

.

right in the middle is the Median

(I am a statistician by trade)

Originally Posted by chasfh

So if you're relying mainly on this chart to demonstrate that BMW is a steaming pile of unreliable crap, it falls short of that goal. You'll need to come up with something else, probably anecdotal, to make your point.

I'm not surprised to see BMW, Audi, and Lexus where they are on the list. I am surprised , though, that MB is up there way ahead of BMW, and that Infiniti is rated below BMW.

Well as far as I know Audi has got so many electrical problem lights on the dash annoys you

Originally Posted by suneil

Nice!
If you're still there, could you have them throw in a high output 2.0T, quad exhaust, AWD version for us guys?
And get rid of those cheesey LED's in the front

LOL

I said WORKED, meaning not there anymore.

My big pitch was trying to get the Beetle on a small lightweight rear engine platform lol.

Originally Posted by Elk

You are nicely arguing with a point not mine. I will not address your ad hominem comment.

Whether one prefers the look of one conservative four door sedan or another is merely a matter of preference. I will never argue with your personal view an F30 is "sexy," although I see nothing of the sort.

I strongly suspect for many that which makes the car interesting in appearance is the mere application of a roundel.

Funny, your assumptions as to why someone would find an F30 as "sexy" sound ad-hominem and offensively assuming in itself, making it sound as if you have some sort of dog in this psychological race.

I guess if we're playing this game, then there's no real way you can convince someone that a Ferrari 599 is more "sexy" than a 6-Series, I mean, both are sleek 2 door Coupes, right?

How about the RWD proportions of the 3 VS the stubby "wheel to front door", long-overhang/short wheelbase (when taking overall length of car into account) FWD proportions of the Accord? I guess that's a taste thing as well? If you think so, it'd be hard for you to on the other hand argue if someone had merit in thinking the F30 was the "sexiest car in the world".

Sometimes, things just look better. An F30 VS Accord is hardly a subjective design debate if you really take fundamental harmonies of design into account (proportions, wheelbase, stance, lines, etc.).

Originally Posted by sr5959

Most F10s look great, yours in particular. I like the F30 a lot but definitely prefer the F10 design. Also I agree with the poster who said 4 doors are some of the best looking cars on the market.

Thanks very much!

Yeah the F10 is really one of those future-classic designs like the E39 I think, just smooth, rounded off edges which is rare these days in this "pointy corner" age, balanced and almost sensual in its form, which I really appreciate from BMW. I came from an E-Class which I also love but had a very opposite approach: Brutally angular, hard corners and edges, lots of lines-play, etc. The F10's formula is really a breath of fresh air to me right now.