BMW as a Dependable Car

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

If my n54 continues on as it is now and I was the kinda person to keep a car that long, without thinking I'd keep it. I got to see some pics yesterday of a 2007 335i running meth+cobb taking laps at a track in WV and just how much abuse it took and it was chugging along just fine.

Next time you take your car in, ask your SA about the oil filter housing. Mine was just fixed because my iDrive was telling me that I needed oil. I noticed that it did this on two cycles and it was going through oil faster than normal. When I brought it in, I didn't even think of asking my SA to look into it. I brought the car in for other reasons and when I got it back, he told me about the oil filter housing leak and said he was booked but we can schedule it for another time to be fixed. It basically cost about $700 to fix if I remember correctly (under ext warranty) and I asked him if this was a common problem. He said it's very common and it's not a matter of if this will need to be replaced but when it will need to be fixed.

The thread seems to now have been hijacked and we're moving away from discussing dependability and moving on to discussing the sexiness of the cars so if you want to bring it back on target, that would be fine.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I worked for VW which would be called an OEM. My design became the'05 show car called the Ragster. A lot of elements wound up on the'12 Beetle which is trending 40% more to men in sales.

VW has been trying to attract male buyers for years with limited success.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

I'm not surprised to see BMW, Audi, and Lexus where they are on the list. I am surprised , though, that MB is up there way ahead of BMW, and that Infiniti is rated below BMW.

We had a 2003 Infinity M45, and if I remember correctly, Infinity was near or at the top of the list back then. They have certainly fallen a long way from grace since then.

Originally Posted by aamir4x

Well as far as I know Audi has got so many electrical problem lights on the dash annoys you

Our 2011 Audi S4 has had zero problems in 23,000 miles (knock on wood).

Originally Posted by beden1

Our 2011 Audi S4 has had zero problems in 23,000 miles (knock on wood).

+1

31k miles here and no issues. Electrical issues plagued Audi's in the back in the 90's and early 00's.

Originally Posted by beden1

VW has been trying to attract male buyers for years with limited success.

Not really sure why so many women love the Passat, Jetta, and Beetle. Aside from the early gen beetle, the passat and Jetta was like any other car in its class in terms of styling, not masculine nor feminine. Perhaps it's the interior. I have always been impressed with VW's interior quality and fit & finish for a non-premium car. Perhaps women like German engineering, high-quality interior, without the stigma of being a stereotype.

Originally Posted by sf_loft

Not really sure why so many women love the Passat, Jetta, and Beetle.

Perhaps in the case of the Beetle, it came with a flower (seriously).

Originally Posted by sf_loft

Not really sure why so many women love the Passat, Jetta, and Beetle. Aside from the early gen beetle, the passat and Jetta was like any other car in its class in terms of styling, not masculine nor feminine. Perhaps it's the interior. I have always been impressed with VW's interior quality and fit & finish for a non-premium car. Perhaps women like German engineering, high-quality interior, without the stigma of being a stereotype.

I think many females are more practical when it comes to cars and spending in general as opposed to males.

We used to take our son and daughter to the Philly car show every year and make a day of it ending with dinner in Chinatown. I remember my daughter was around 12 years old when she fell in love with the Jetta. She picked up the sales brochures and read them cover to cover, and also had me take her to the local dealer so she could look at it more. The biggest selling points to her was that it was reasonable in price and it also had a very high safety rating. She had to have one when she got old enough to drive.

I made a deal with her, that if she consistently achieved a GPA that my wife and I set for her in school, and if she stayed out of trouble, that she would have her Jetta by the time she got her driving permit at 16. When the day arrived and she saw the new Jetta parked in our driveway, I thought she was going to explode she was so happy.

It was a loaded 2003 GLS 1.8T 4dr Sedan in silver with black interior. The car was made in Germany, and it was fantastic through HS until after she graduated with her masters degree from college. I think some of the VWs that have problems were made in Mexico.

Originally Posted by K-A

Sometimes, things just look better.

And sometimes they do not.

Again, you are free to your opinion. I merely disagree with the assessment of the F30 as visually interesting, or meaningfully different. I accept you feel otherwise. Perhaps Kool-Aid's medicinal effects have no impact on me. Let it go.

As an aside, I am continually amused by the need of some to post multiple pictures of a mass-produced car which, not by coincidence, is identical to its stablemates.

Oddly, I find my Z06 looks just like every other Z06, my Ducati Superbike as its brethren, etc. Then again this is probably, as you insightfully declared, "ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into . . . design."

Originally Posted by beden1

. . . my daughter was around 12 years old when she fell in love with the Jetta.

. . .

I made a deal with her, that if she consistently achieved a GPA that my wife and I set for her in school, and if she stayed out of trouble, that she would have her Jetta by the time she got her driving permit at 16.

It is striking that as a young person she knew what was of interest to her at such a young age and remained so. Fun story.

Originally Posted by SilverX3

It's behind industry average

VW is crap

What is Ram? It pretty high up on the list. Dodge Ram?

Originally Posted by Elk

And sometimes they do not.

Again, you are free to your opinion. I merely disagree with the assessment of the F30 as visually interesting, or meaningfully different. I accept you feel otherwise. Perhaps Kool-Aid's medicinal effects have no impact on me. Let it go.

As an aside, I am continually amused by the need of some to post multiple pictures of a mass-produced car which, not by coincidence, is identical to its stablemates.

Oddly, I find my Z06 looks just like every other Z06, my Ducati Superbike as its brethren, etc. Then again this is probably, as you insightfully declared, "ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into . . . design."

Please, you said an Accord looks as good as an F30. Don't try and back pedal into this being simply about whether the F30 is visually interesting or not. You saying that either implies you don't have an eye for car design, or absolutely love the Accord, or that you're trying to say something extreme to ruffle feathers.

I'd still love to hear whether you feel the F30's RWD base with shorter overhangs doesn't make it inherently more attractive than the short wheelbase/long overhang wheel-to-door proportions of said Accord.

Funny you don't understand why people post pics of mass produced cars, yet you're on an F30 enthusiast forum. What do you expect people to do, post pics of Lambo's?

Next on MTV2 "Why F30's is bland m-----f---ers..."

Originally Posted by K-A

That's ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into car design (I'm not talking about "ooh/ahh" popping smoke like a simply dramatically lowered roofline compromising interior space on a 4-door that makes some people go gaga).

Put an F30 next to an Accord and you'll see how much more refined and dynamic the BMW looks. Just because both are Sedans and the Accord has copied the Hofmeister kink doesn't make it BMW-esque in the least.

As for 4-Doors not being "sexy", I disagree. I've always though 4-Doors are some of the most attractive cars. A lot of that is because there's nothing awkward about a good 4-Door design, and when done right and dynamically, it will usually be the most timeless and easy-to-see-a-thousand-times designs out there, IMO. My favorite cars are typically conservative/timeless bases with some spicing up via tastefully aggressive packages.... gives a multi-character'd presence that could be stately when you need it to be, aggressive when you need it to be, conservative, sexy, etc., which I think the following several pics show pretty well....

I wouldn't have got my own 4-Door Sedan if I didn't think it had some sex appeal.

4-doors means you can pick up more females or exercise with her in the back seat

Originally Posted by beden1

I think many females are more practical when it comes to cars and spending in general as opposed to males.

Agree, but when it comes to shoes, handbags, jewelry, and clothes OMG. Not all, but we all have our guilty pleasures that make us happy.

Originally Posted by sf_loft

+1

31k miles here and no issues. Electrical issues plagued Audi's in the back in the 90's and early 00's.

Warranty expiration is key. Had a passat that was absolutely flawless until 36k. My wife loved it. Quick, fuel efficient, comfy, roomy. Then when the car hit 36,100 it died. Fuel injector went bad.

VW refused to tow it to a dealer (rep actually laughed at me over the phone). I paid to have AAA tow it.

VW dealer graciously goodwilled the repair, normally $1300 but let me know I was on my own for the other three fuel injectors. So when it was fixed I drove it right to anInfiniti dealer.

Originally Posted by Elk

And sometimes they do not.

Again, you are free to your opinion. I merely disagree with the assessment of the F30 as visually interesting, or meaningfully different. I accept you feel otherwise. Perhaps Kool-Aid's medicinal effects have no impact on me. Let it go.

As an aside, I am continually amused by the need of some to post multiple pictures of a mass-produced car which, not by coincidence, is identical to its stablemates.

Oddly, I find my Z06 looks just like every other Z06, my Ducati Superbike as its brethren, etc. Then again this is probably, as you insightfully declared, "ridiculous to say, and takes someone who doesn't appreciate the dynamics that go into . . . design."

You can't have it both ways, you can't be remiss to find appealing attributes out of a 4dr sedan to notice, but you have your Z06 which you say looks like every other Z06.

Fact is, 98% of people will not know your Z06 from the tons of C6(or even C5) Vettes out there. I know to look for the wider fenders, the air inlet etc(which is made even harder ever since the GrandSport)-but I am in the minority. So it's just a Corvette and to many it's a generic shape at this point, my wife and friends do not even do a glance or double take. But a copper colored Z06, that I turn my head for lol.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You can't have it both ways, you can't be remiss to find appealing attributes out of a 4dr sedan to notice, but you have your Z06 which you say looks like every other Z06.

Fact is, 98% of people will not know your Z06 from the tons of C6(or even C5) Vettes out there. I know to look for the wider fenders, the air inlet etc(which is made even harder ever since the GrandSport)-but I am in the minority. So it's just a Corvette and to many it's a generic shape at this point, my wife and friends do not even do a glance or double take. But a copper colored Z06, that I turn my head for lol.

I still have to do double takes when I see a C5/C6 as it's difficult to tell which is which. Corvette's are very much indeed showcases of taking a certain shape/idiom and making it so "normal" you don't even really notice it (I call is "iconicizing a design", Vette did it, just like BMW did it with their 3-Box Sedans).

Of course, at the same time, Vette's are inherently more overstated, unconventional, which means I find that people get tired of seeing cars like that so much, if they see them so much (something that's meant to be "ooh/ahh" from the get-go, essentially gets "old" faster than something that's tastefully conservative from the get-go, IMO).

Which is where the beauty of a good 3-Box Sedan comes in, again. They never are meant to drop your jaw to the floor, so there's not much to "get over". A good looking Sedan that's executed very well should be great looking to see for years upon years, and shouldn't intrude your senses enough to ever get "tired of", therefore "timeless".

Originally Posted by K-A

I still have to do double takes when I see a C5/C6 as it's difficult to tell which is which. Corvette's are very much indeed showcases of taking a certain shape/idiom and making it so "normal" you don't even really notice it (I call is "iconicizing a design", Vette did it, just like BMW did it with their 3-Box Sedans).

Of course, at the same time, Vette's are inherently more overstated, unconventional, which means I find that people get tired of seeing cars like that so much, if they see them so much (something that's meant to be "ooh/ahh" from the get-go, essentially gets "old" faster than something that's tastefully conservative from the get-go, IMO).

Which is where the beauty of a good 3-Box Sedan comes in, again. They never are meant to drop your jaw to the floor, so there's not much to "get over". A good looking Sedan that's executed very well should be great looking to see for years upon years, and shouldn't intrude your senses enough to ever get "tired of", therefore "timeless".

Don't get me wrong, I love the C6 Z06. But most people don't notice them. I only get excited by the right color which is the same that happens for my 328.

Originally Posted by jjp735i

I really don't understand some BMW owners. Always negitve. I'm on my 3rd BMW and not once was I left on the side of the road and I don't think that is unusaual. My 88 735i bought with 112,000 miles on it keep me going for 7 years and I only speant $2500 in 7 years to keep it running great. If that is not reliable I don't know what is.

Now if you spent that same 2500$ (out of tires and brakes) over only 20 months after the end of warranty (75K miles), would you feel the same?

That's where I am. I am not saying that it is unreliable (jury is still out on that one).

No additional preventive maintenance would have saved my 1119$ to fix that valve cover leak. Or change multiple ignition coils (did myself) - it was cyl. #2, later #4 and this month #5. The cost is an issue, but more so is the annoyances. Oh, dealer wanted to change my rear differential since they hear a noise. 3600$ * I declined *. But if someone buys my car and discover this through the dealer, I might be in some trouble (although I don't find it as real issue). However, net I am still far from the nightmare that I had with my old Audi (11000$ in 30 months) to bring it at 110000 miles.

Originally Posted by Saintor

Now if you spent that same 2500$ (out of tires and brakes) over only 20 months after the end of warranty (75K miles), would you feel the same?

That's where I am. I am not saying that it is unreliable (jury is still out on that one).

No additional preventive maintenance would have saved my 1119$ to fix that valve cover leak. Or change multiple ignition coils (did myself) - it was cyl. #2, later #4 and this month #5. The cost is an issue, but more so is the annoyances. Oh, dealer wanted to change my rear differential since they hear a noise. 3600$ * I declined *. But if someone buys my car and discover this through the dealer, I might be in some trouble (although I don't find it as real issue). However, net I am still far from the nightmare that I had with my old Audi (11000$ in 30 months) to bring it at 110000 miles.

All mechanisms and electrical components wear and break in time. IMO, regular service and not beating on a car will extend the inevitable.

Originally Posted by K-A

Please, you said an Accord looks as good as an F30.

No, I stated only a 2013 Accord competes nicely with an F30 in styling. I stated no preference for either and would not describe either as interesting. They are simply in the same camp of conservative, generic and safe. I wonder if Accord forums are replete with massive pictures of their identical appearing cars?

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

You can't have it both ways, you can't be remiss to find appealing attributes out of a 4dr sedan to notice, but you have your Z06 which you say looks like every other Z06.

I'm sorry, you lost me. I do not maintain I cannot see differences between an F30 and other cars; I can find my car in a parking lot. Regardless, I continue to find the F30's appearance unremarkable, staid, predictable. My Z06 looks like any other Z06 as they are mass-produced cars - nothing to take pictures of or post.

Fact is, 98% of people will not know your Z06 from the tons of C6(or even C5) Vettes out there. . . . So it's just a Corvette and to many it's a generic shape at this point, my wife and friends do not even do a glance or double take.

Absolutely true in all respects, nor do I bother to look - as you correctly point out, it is generic. I also do not care if anyone notices.

It is interesting you comment there are "tons" of Corvettes however, as only roughly 30,000 are made each year. (Your statement is neither good or bad, just interesting.)

Originally Posted by beden1

All mechanisms and electrical components wear and break in time. IMO, regular service and not beating on a car will extend the inevitable.

We are also fortunate that cars in general are becoming more and more reliable. An average reliability car today, such as BMW, is vastly more reliable than an average car ten years ago. I expect my F30 to happily chug along for years to come.

Originally Posted by Elk

It is interesting you comment there are "tons" of Corvettes however, as only roughly 30,000 are made each year. (Your statement is neither good or bad, just interesting.)

There are only about 14,000 Corvettes made on an annual basis since 2009.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

My point is very clear. The Z06 barely distinguishable from another Corvette. You specified it's not different than any other Zo6. My M Roadster to most people would not be specified from a Z3.

So while in YOUR eyes you are lopping your ZO6 as specific from every Vette while lopping BMW in with an other 4dr sedan...the public does the same thing to your Z06 as not special enough to differentiate. Where I live C6s are a daily occurrence.

Now you have your opinion and it does not offend me. But it does come across as hypocritical that we are caught up in our cars and notice differences you don't but you want specificity applied to your car that others would not notice either.

I hope that makes better sense.

Originally Posted by Elk

No, I stated only a 2013 Accord competes nicely with an F30 in styling. I stated no preference for either and would not describe either as interesting. They are simply in the same camp of conservative, generic and safe. I wonder if Accord forums are replete with massive pictures of their identical appearing cars?


I'm sorry, you lost me. I do not maintain I cannot see differences between an F30 and other cars; I can find my car in a parking lot. Regardless, I continue to find the F30's appearance unremarkable, staid, predictable. My Z06 looks like any other Z06 as they are mass-produced cars - nothing to take pictures of or post.


Absolutely true in all respects, nor do I bother to look - as you correctly point out, it is generic. I also do not care if anyone notices.

It is interesting you comment there are "tons" of Corvettes however, as only roughly 30,000 are made each year. (Your statement is neither good or bad, just interesting.)