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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:37 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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Question Service Intervals...True or False?

I have a 2010 335d...no problems, and I'd like to keep it that way!

My service rep says that the service interval on diesels is mileage-based, with no "X miles or one year, whichever comes first," and that the car will let me know when servicing such as lube and oil changes is due.

I'm a bit concerned about that information, and hope that you folks can set me straight on this, though let me apologize in advance if it has been previously covered.

The issue is that we only put about 6000 miles per year on the vehicle, with most being local driving, with a smattering of freeway trips, primarily short distances such as twenty-five miles a few times a week, if that. I think that you have the picture...

I am willing to pay for more frequent lube and oil changes if that is recommended, and, if so, at how many miles or months? I have my eye on a local independent BMW and Range Rover garage that gets wonderful press on Yelp.

I live north of San Diego, near Del Mar.

Any thoughts?

Thanks much.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 02-15-2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #2  
Old 02-15-2013, 04:36 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Every oil change the dealer has done for free on my car was time based and not mileage. Every oil change the dealer has done for free on my car was done because the cars computer said it was time to do.

Check the menus on your car and you will find where it has a month/year as well as miles for the service. Offhand I don't recall how to get to this.

Also get a different SA, the one you have is either an idiot or a flat out liar, not sure which is better.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Guess I should add that every free oil change was in a 12 month interval. Bought car in late 2009, needed an oil change in January 2010. Put maybe 8k miles on in 2010, needed an oil change in January 2011. Repeat process for January 2012 due date and then for January 2013 but I put that off until last week.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runon MD1 View Post
My service rep says that the service interval on diesels is mileage-based, with no "X miles or one year, whichever comes first," and that the car will let me know when servicing such as lube and oil changes is due.
My oil was changed last October based on a 12 month interval, rather than mileage.

Some other service intervals are purely time based, e.g., brake fluid every 24 months.
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  #5  
Old 02-15-2013, 07:40 PM
xi2d xi2d is offline
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Non-time based interval examples

Here's our oil change info all performed after the warning:

'10 335d (delivered Dec 2009):
Aug 2010 - 12,521 mi
Mar 2011 - 28,584 mi

'10 X5 35d (delivered Mar 2010):
Sep 2010 - 9,670 mi
Apr 2011 - 19,698 mi
Feb 2012 - 30,116 mi

'11 335d (delivered Jun 2011):
Nov 2011 - 13,313 mi
Apr 2012 - 24,536 mi
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2013, 08:39 PM
Sabersix Sabersix is offline
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My 2011 has two years from manufacture date for oil change. Currently at 10800 miles and 14 months since purchase, still on original oil.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Bimmer App
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 AM
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Folks, suggest reading the Owner's Manual.

The OBC is set for 13k miles when new and after every oil service. The car has an oil condition monitor that looks at the condition of the oil, inlcuding oil level, as well as how hard you may drive it, and the 13k is adjusted downwards from there. Some may get their oil change light at 10k, others at 13k, like me.

Then there is also a time interval, which used to be 1 year but I think this was adjusted upward to every two (2) years. Perhaps 2009 started with 1 year and I thought my 2010 was also 1 year but now it shows as 2 years.

1,000 miles before your target interval you will get a warning light advising a service is coming soon. The dealer will honor the free oil change as long as you are within the 1,000 miles of being due.

This can vary widely by dealer and SA. They basically say whatever they want so you have to push them on this.

I personally think changing your oil prematurely is a waste of your money.
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  #8  
Old 02-16-2013, 11:38 AM
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There are 2 schools on this- some day the low sap synthetic holds up well under the recommended interval (though I haven't seen an oil analysis shared for the M57, US spec). Others on various forums do a "tweener" at about half way (around 6k miles). I personally think an in between oil change may help with the longevity of the turbos as they rely heavily on good lubrication.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2013, 04:09 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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True or False?

Thanks for the replies. It seems we have two schools of thought on the topic.

I would think that "tweening" the oil changes seems to make sense from the point of view of longevity, but, as Flyingman notes, it may represent expense without incremental value.

But keep those cards and letters coming in, folks!

And thanks!

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 02-16-2013 at 04:12 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2013, 05:03 PM
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If you are going to keep your Bimmer forever then get the Old School Maintenance Schedule and stick to it. If you are going to sell or trade your car in 5 years then it really doesn't matter (to you; however, the next owner will suffer as a result of "scheduled" maintenance).
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:28 AM
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Just about every oil manufacturer recommends you follow the OEM Recommended Oil Change Interval. It is actually subject of their warranty.

Just about every expert on line says to follow OEM recommended oil change.

Mobil 1 says 10,000 miles or recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

But they also say you have to change the oil every 12 months, which may conflict with OEM warranty.

The main caveat here is that this is for normal daily driving. Which is pretty much what most of us do. If you set you car up for extended periods without using it or only drive about 5 miles one way to work, maybe you need to change more frequently based on time. If you race, definitely change more frequently. If you live in a very hot, or very cold, dusty, or dirty environment, then by all means you should be changing your oil more frequently.

But I dare say that the vast majority of us are normal daily drivers, so follow the OEM Recommended Oil Change Interval, and be happy!

Unless you are going to take oil samples and change based on those reults, stick to the OEM.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2013, 06:10 AM
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And to throw a little more fuel on the fire, try reading this paper published for SAE on oil change intervals and how changing the oil too frequently may actually harm your engine.

A bit counter intuitive to many.

http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/

The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear

Date Published: 2007-10-29Paper Number: 2007-01-4133
DOI: 10.4271/2007-01-4133


Citation:

Gangopadhyay, A., Carter, R., Uy, D., Simko, S. et al., "The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear," SAE Technical Paper 2007-01-4133, 2007, doi:10.4271/2007-01-4133.

Author(s):

A. K. Gangopadhyay - Ford Motor Co.
R. O. Carter - Ford Motor Co.
D. Uy - Ford Motor Co.
S. J. Simko - Ford Motor Co.
M. Riley - Ford Motor Co.
C. B. Phillips - ConocoPhillips Co.
H. Gao - ConocoPhillips Co.

Abstract:

Engine oils are subjected to a series of industry standard engine dynamometer tests to measure their wear protection capability, sludge and varnish formation tendencies, and fuel efficiency among several other performance attributes before they are approved for use in customer engines. However, these performance attributes are measured at the end of tests and therefore, do not provide any information on how the properties have changed during the tests. In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered.


File Size: 1476K



Product Status: In Stock
See papers presented at

•Powertrain & Fluid Systems Conference and Exhibition, October 29, 2007, Chicago, Illinois, United States
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:24 AM
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This is also a very good article explaining some of today's technology and how OEMs are able to extend OCI.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...filter-sensors

And here is another unbiased approach:

http://autos.sympatico.ca/maintenanc...d-for-your-car
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Last edited by Flyingman; 02-17-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:11 AM
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I've noticed a few folks are having their oil tested at Blackstone Labs in Indiana.

It may be worthwhile to try and collect this info and see if there are any real trends or issues with our OEM oil change intervals.

The only way to know is to have enough representative samples with supporting data in order to make an intellegent conclusion.

Blackstone offers free sample kits and analysis is only $25.00, so that sounds like a very reasonable amount. I would also add that a single analysis does not really tell one much, trending over time is the true way of having a clue what is going on.

I am inclined to have my own oil analyzed out of curiousity. I just had it changed so maybe I'll take a sample at 1,000 miles since changed and then another when it gets about 5,000 or 6,000 miles, then again just prior to oil change. At least we could trend what has been going on.

The other way is to gather everyones samples and input them in a spreadsheet and chart them all out. Maybe Blackstone is willing to share their data without identifying specific clients?

Anyone else willing to take the dip, into their oil that is???
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:22 AM
taibanl taibanl is offline
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I thought someone had theirs analyzed and came to the conclusion that 10,000 is Optimal, which is only slightly shy of the factory will change interval
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:12 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
I thought someone had theirs analyzed and came to the conclusion that 10,000 is Optimal, which is only slightly shy of the factory will change interval
Was their car calling for more than 10k mile interval when they had it analyzed?
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
I thought someone had theirs analyzed and came to the conclusion that 10,000 is Optimal, which is only slightly shy of the factory will change interval
In the "my oil analysis thread", one guy had about 11k with high Iron, so the BS folks suggested about 10k in his case.

What happens in oil analysis is that your oil accumulates wear metals, contamination and moisture. Some items will level out and reach saturation while others will continue to climb with miles/time. That is why trending is critical if you want a meaningful analysis.

Unless you have had an engine failure and want to know what may have caused it, you always take an oil sample whenever there is an event like this.

I don't think you can just say that X ppm of a given metal is indicative of an impending problem.

So your Iron content is gradually increasing over time. I think that may be normal wear. You change your oil for new with no Iron and voula! Your problem is solved? I don't think so.

I honestly think we are getting just a bit too concerned about nothing.
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Last edited by Flyingman; 02-17-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:52 PM
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Sticky

Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
I thought someone had theirs analyzed and came to the conclusion that 10,000 is Optimal, which is only slightly shy of the factory will change interval
It's a sticky at the top: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=475850
We discussed it a bit on there. BS labs results are posted, etc.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:48 PM
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I contacted BS and ordered a sample kit. How am I going to get the oil out? Guess now I have to get some sort of pump or siphon.

For $25 I'm game to see what it tells me. But again, without doing trending and identifying a baseline for my engine, not sure what value we will get from this.

I do note in their reports they indicate average expected results for our model. My concern is that many folks send in samples without properly identifying their make/model, engine type, type of oil, hours on oil, if topped off or not, miles on engine as a whole, etc..., so garbage in, garbage out.

I think viscosity of the oil and amount of additive (TBN) will be the most telling in regards to it's useful life. Fuel or water will dilute the viscosity, which is of course harmful. We already burn Low Sulfur Fuel so TBN shouldn't be a major problem for us, and this is mostly the case in all of the BS reports I've seen posted so far.

My last two oil changes I had gotten a low oil level alarm prior (yellow vs the red warning light). I never checked the level or added more oil. It is probably a good idea to give our cars a bit of top off of oil at mid-life (6-7k) to help boost the TBN just a tad.

Anybody else doing a top off of oil between services?

Particle count and size distribution would also be very useful info, but I suspect more expensive to obtain.

As you can see it is easy to get quite anal about this stuff!
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:33 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
Anybody else doing a top off of oil between services?
I had to once, after my first oil change. I speculated after the fact that perhaps I did not get all the oil I should have during that first change. Really bugged me when it happened though since at the time it was the only car I owned that seemed to "consume" oil in between oil changes or consume it at a rate I could actually detect.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:21 PM
Runon MD1 Runon MD1 is offline
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Service Intervals...True or False?

As suggested, I checked the car under "Menu," and went to Vehicle Information, I believe, and then "Service," or "Service Interval," or something to that effect...I don't remember the exact sequence or title(s), as it was a day or so ago.

But the point is, as promised by someone kind enough to respond, there it was! A notation that informed me that service was due in March, or in another 4750 miles.

I don't know whether it was either/or, but think it must have been phrased that way.

I haven't received any sort of alert from the vehicle itself, however.

So...she goes in in March. Problem solved.

On a separate issue, there seems to have been a recent recall for the 3 series (perhaps the 1 series and perhaps yet others as well) built between 2007 and perhaps 2011...I don't recall the specifics...a battery cable connector issue, I believe.

Thanks again.

Richard

Last edited by Runon MD1; 02-17-2013 at 10:26 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #22  
Old 02-18-2013, 07:02 AM
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I double checked my own OBC as I just had it serviced last week.

It was set at 13,000 miles or 02/2015, so it is definitely two (2) years by time if you dont reach the required miles. Brake fluid was also set for two (2) more years.

I'm pretty certain when the car was new this was set at one (1) year, so they did change this. I'm averaging some 15k a year anyway so not a problem for me.

Now what I'm wondering is if they have ever changed my fuel filter? I don't recall ever seeing that on a service order.
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Last edited by Flyingman; 02-18-2013 at 07:03 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-18-2013, 07:14 AM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
I double checked my own OBC as I just had it serviced last week.

It was set at 13,000 miles or 02/2015, so it is definitely two (2) years by time if you dont reach the required miles. Brake fluid was also set for two (2) more years.

I'm pretty certain when the car was new this was set at one (1) year, so they did change this. I'm averaging some 15k a year anyway so not a problem for me.

Now what I'm wondering is if they have ever changed my fuel filter? I don't recall ever seeing that on a service order.
Fuel filter on yours if I remember right is every other oil change. On mine it is every third oil change. You can find the information about when this is based on year model car via the BMW website.

In the past year they changed the time from one to two years, or seems they did based on what people have said on here. Mine has always been one year or 13k miles, which ever comes first. With that said though I have not looked since I had the oil change done last week, it might very well say two years now. But I do not care since I hope to have this car sold in the next couple of months otherwise I'd be waiting two years for my next oil change because no way I'd drive enough miles now that I moved.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
Fuel filter on yours if I remember right is every other oil change. On mine it is every third oil change. You can find the information about when this is based on year model car via the BMW website.

In the past year they changed the time from one to two years, or seems they did based on what people have said on here. Mine has always been one year or 13k miles, which ever comes first. With that said though I have not looked since I had the oil change done last week, it might very well say two years now. But I do not care since I hope to have this car sold in the next couple of months otherwise I'd be waiting two years for my next oil change because no way I'd drive enough miles now that I moved.
Aaron, your not in Humble any more?
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  #25  
Old 02-18-2013, 01:52 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Aaron, your not in Humble any more?
We moved inside Houston. It is the reason we put the BMW up for sale instead of trading it in. Just no need for the thing now.
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