X5 Lemon Branded Title

I see a 2011 X5 Diesel w/ 3rd row on auction. The catch is a California lemon branded title because the rear hatch closes improperly when the car is parked on a slope. I live in a flat area, so this seems like a minor concern that I could probably ignore for the duration that I owned it. My question is how much of a discount I should apply for the lemon branded title when bidding. I've seen all sorts of quotes online from 13% to 50% devaluation from the lemon branded title.

I'm still not convinced I should bid on this car, I just want to make an educated decision on what to bid should I decide to assume this risk. Rather than chiming in about *whether* I should bid, could readers please chime in if they know the devaluation figures?

I would probably keep the car for about 5 years.

Thanks!

You actually have no idea what REALLY was the cause for the lemon. Whatever they are saying is not legally binding. Dont kid yourself on this...it could be improperly welded body panels that manifest as closing problems, among other issues...they are just spinning it to minimize it. IMO

In 5 years a normal X5 will be 25k. A lemon 12-15? Just WAGs


I lemoned my 2010, it sold at auction with 32k miles for ~37-39k..they turned around and sold it for 46k. Car cost 58k

The fact that the hatch fails to close properly on a slope is a bit odd. Obviously the dealer was un-able to fix it after multiple attempts. It is possible that some components were improperly welded as ard mentioned. I would pass on this on safety alone.

You could try to get the BMW service history on the VIN, to see whats really up.

Originally Posted by Kimmer

I see a 2011 X5 Diesel w/ 3rd row on auction. The catch is a California lemon branded title because the rear hatch closes improperly when the car is parked on a slope. I live in a flat area, so this seems like a minor concern that I could probably ignore for the duration that I owned it. My question is how much of a discount I should apply for the lemon branded title when bidding. I've seen all sorts of quotes online from 13% to 50% devaluation from the lemon branded title.

I'm still not convinced I should bid on this car, I just want to make an educated decision on what to bid should I decide to assume this risk. Rather than chiming in about *whether* I should bid, could readers please chime in if they know the devaluation figures?

I would probably keep the car for about 5 years.

Thanks!

If you are not familiar with lemon branded issues in your state, you may want to pass. Some insurance companies won't even insure a lemon-branded car so check with your insurer to see what kind of exposure you may be getting into. Lemon's are only a bit better than a Salvage title so the 50% discount that drives a salvage isn't typically likely, your should see at LEAST a 30% reduction in price or I would pass myself.

Another thing - Authorized BMW dealers can NOT sell a lemon or a dealer buy back car so the ONLY place you can get one is from a non-BMW dealer. This also means that you will not EVER be able to get an extended warranty from BMW for such a car.

Also - What others have told you about the mis-direction is accurate. Since you HAVE to deal with the more typical "used car salesmen" you are likely to get any range of "excuses/reasons" why the car was lemoned. Before I bought my '12 X5d, I looked at a X5M that seemed to be a FANTASTIC discount of something like 40% off retail. One guy said that the lemon issue was minor mechanical issue (suspension) and had already been fixed. However, I had a friend inside BMW and learned that particular X5M had a re-occurring ENGINE issue that even BMW was never able fix and that the buying dealer had not done a THING to it other than putting it up on his lot for sale.

run, not walk, away from this car. There are enough X5s out there that you don't have to settle with a POS lemon titled car

Thanks for all of the feedback! You all made excellent points, especially about safety concerns, and I will indeed steer clear of this and others like it.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for my perfect X5 ... a "true" 2011 3.5 Diesel w/ 3rd row, navigation, heated seats, backup camera, rear entertainment, dark interior, anything but white exterior and under 30K miles. (Now you see why I may need to be patient!) My brother has a dealer's license, so he's watching the dealer-only auctions for me.

I have wondered about lemon titles since the HPFP issue with the 335i caused a lot of them to be lemoned. Turns out that after the recall this issue isn't such a big deal. So my question is if a BMW dealer can't sell a lemon what happens to all the ones they took back?

Originally Posted by kmorgan_260

I have wondered about lemon titles since the HPFP issue with the 335i caused a lot of them to be lemoned. Turns out that after the recall this issue isn't such a big deal. So my question is if a BMW dealer can't sell a lemon what happens to all the ones they took back?

Some aren't a "big deal" but others ARE. EVERY one of them is sent to a Manheim auction and bought by non-BMW authorized dealers. You know, the ones that SAY they are BMW dealers but by that they mean that they resell BMWs...Merc, ford, yugo's, etc...

PS - The HPFP issue wasn't actually a "lemon" issue. It was simply a recall. Granted, the dealers might have taken a bit of time to figure it out but the majority of those simply were repaired for the original owner. They weren't all "buy backs" nor should they have been. A "lemon" is a flaw that prevents use of the vehicle for the purpose intended requiring the car to be in the shop to fix. Once the HPFP issue was identified, anyone with the issue simply got the repair rather than a buy out.

Yes, the lemon branded X5 I mentioned in the original post was listed on a Manheim auction. So while true BMW dealerships cannot sell them, any other dealer can.

Back when I was looking for X5, I checked out the auctions (Manheim). It appeared that an X5 with 15K would run for close to 50K out of the door. Also, big chance to get a lemon (one auctcion dealer actually sent me a vehicle to review that was branded a lemon).
I moved away from the auction idea after figuring out that an X5 would cost me only 5K above the auction price with all discounts. Maybe the OP is not aware of the discounts?
Benefits of going for new car:
-Lower APR (3.9 from BMWFS vs 6.0% used car loan): about $ 1,000 in savings per year, 5K over the 5 year period.
-Longer warranty period (15K could be a year worth of driving)
-Would a BMW lemoned vehicle even be subject to warranty?

Perhaps the OP should sit down and do the math.

I've had good luck with Manheim auctions so far. Bought a 2 year old X3 (coming of lease) with 13K miles. It was like a brand new car for only $24K. Hard to beat deals like that. I pay cash for all my cars so APR advantages don't apply. I kept that X3 for 5 years, and am now looking to upgrade to a 2 year old X5. The MMR for those are around the $40K mark loaded. There's no math that can justify paying $65k for a 2013 when I can get a like new 2011 for $40k.

Originally Posted by Kimmer

I've had good luck with Manheim auctions so far. Bought a 2 year old X3 (coming of lease) with 13K miles. It was like a brand new car for only $24K. Hard to beat deals like that. I pay cash for all my cars so APR advantages don't apply. I kept that X3 for 5 years, and am now looking to upgrade to a 2 year old X5. The MMR for those are around the $40K mark loaded. There's no math that can justify paying $65k for a 2013 when I can get a like new 2011 for $40k.

There is a HUGE difference between a "normal" used car sold @ Manheim and a lemoned car. As you pointed out, auto auctions are a GREAT way to buy a used car. I've done it a number of times typically paying the used dealer around $600 for the transaction. The problem you run into on MMR is that the sellers often (attempt) to get the same price for a lemon as they get for a used car without ANY flaws (like the X3 you bought previously). Manheim also use to offer a vehicle inspection service that would give you (a type of) warranty for a limited 7 days (or so) if you used their on site inspection offer ($150 I think).

The ONLY reason I considered a lemoned X5M was that I had the ability to pay something like $52K for a 6K mileage, loaded 2010 when I bought my X5d. That was something like $45K off the retail price so it was nearly 50% off & if the lemon issue had not been an unfixable engine issue, I probably would have bought it.

Read this thread...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...&highlight=x5m

Originally Posted by Kimmer

Thanks for all of the feedback! You all made excellent points, especially about safety concerns, and I will indeed steer clear of this and others like it.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for my perfect X5 ... a "true" 2011 3.5 Diesel w/ 3rd row, navigation, heated seats, backup camera, rear entertainment, dark interior, anything but white exterior and under 30K miles. (Now you see why I may need to be patient!) My brother has a dealer's license, so he's watching the dealer-only auctions for me.

It's too bad you are not looking for a silver 35i with a thrid row because I want to replace it with a d! good luck with your search.

Originally Posted by Kimmer

I see a 2011 X5 Diesel w/ 3rd row on auction. The catch is a California lemon branded title because the rear hatch closes improperly when the car is parked on a slope. I live in a flat area, so this seems like a minor concern that I could probably ignore for the duration that I owned it. My question is how much of a discount I should apply for the lemon branded title when bidding. I've seen all sorts of quotes online from 13% to 50% devaluation from the lemon branded title.

I'm still not convinced I should bid on this car, I just want to make an educated decision on what to bid should I decide to assume this risk. Rather than chiming in about *whether* I should bid, could readers please chime in if they know the devaluation figures?

I would probably keep the car for about 5 years.

Thanks!

Do not buy lemon. Period. Who knows what's the issue with that car.

Originally Posted by Kimmer

I've had good luck with Manheim auctions so far. Bought a 2 year old X3 (coming of lease) with 13K miles. It was like a brand new car for only $24K. Hard to beat deals like that. I pay cash for all my cars so APR advantages don't apply. I kept that X3 for 5 years, and am now looking to upgrade to a 2 year old X5. The MMR for those are around the $40K mark loaded. There's no math that can justify paying $65k for a 2013 when I can get a like new 2011 for $40k.

You seem to have made up your mind. Hopefully we dont have to see the "I bought a X5 lemon/used vehicle for a killer deal, and now I have a $40K paperweight parked in my driveway" thread.

Good Luck!

Of course I wouldn't pay $40k for a lemon branded vehicle! $40K is the MMR on clean carfax vehicles (2011 X5) coming off lease. The earlier posters convinced me that the lemon branded vehicles aren't worth it, even though I could get a 2011 for more like $30K. So I'm watching for clean, accident-free, flaw-free X5s on Manheim. (Incidentally, an almost perfect one appeared today ... but it's white, which is a no go.)