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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
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  #51  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:58 AM
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People paid for their cars and they can do what they want to them. So people who debadge will look trendy to some and morons to others. I personally am not a fan of debadging, with the exeption of 2 things that drive me crazy (on my cars) are: dealer advertisements (free advertisements) and toll tags on the windshield. I dislike both of these. The toll tag, here in tx, is just plain ugly
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  #52  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
Also if your really want to be modest, get rid of the BMW badge, and black out the grilles, for that anonymous car look.
I've tried completely blacking out all four wedges in the Roundel, but I'm not sure if I like the look. The concentric chrome rings just don't look right.

Both pics are of my X5.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
Fair point, Stealth... Those who claim they debadge for the "clean" look never seem to want to remove the Roundel....
I'm curious. Any ideas on what would replace the Roundel?
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  #53  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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Im not sure what would replace the roundel?? Good question.
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  #54  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:29 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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In Europe, believe it or not, showing off is not appreciated by quite a lot of folks.
Showing succes by a stickered item does not create the same plusses as in the states.

Just owning a fine item is fine enough, overhere we do not tend to look at the Joneses, as much as you might.

It is just enough to own my BMW, I do not need anyone elses approval, let alone all the stupid envy, I will attract by showing off a complementary badge. A badge that just does not bring anything than that.

The roundel is in its own with the car design, not easily lifted, so it stays on.
But when it would be nondestructive to lift it off the car, without having to replace it with something else, I mght.

The piece on the road still will be the BMW, it expresses its pressence more than enough with or without any tags.

Last edited by Sophisto; 02-17-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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  #55  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:08 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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I see the badges including the roundel as part of the overall design. I prefer to keep them on. The car companies spend thought about the size, font, spacing, location etc. of badges and to me cars often look naked and modded without them.
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  #56  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:08 PM
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I would never consider removing the roundel because it's a very clean and simple, classic logo that's symmetrically placed. Now number badges like the 528, 535 and even the beloved 550 I can do without.

Besides, the numbers are just attached by adhesive. The roundel will leave an awkward indentation in the hood/trunk.
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  #57  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot View Post
I still don't buy this. Like I said

90% OF BMWS SOLD IN EUROPE ARE 4 CYLINDERS. SO IF PEOPLE WITH BIG ENGINES DEBADGE IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. THE PERVASIVENESS OF DEBADGING MUST BE BECAUSE PEOPLE WITH SMALL ENGINES ARE DEBADGING.

Also if your really want to be modest, get rid of the BMW badge, and black out the grilles, for that anonymous car look.
I can see how it appears like it from one's perspective here, but I don't think that you are right.

My guess is that de-badging is actually done at a higher rate by enthusiasts who tend to be the ones who opt for the bigger engine.

Also keep in mind that the perception of what a sufficiently sized engine is differs quite a bit, not only for economical reasons. For example, I'm sure that most Germans would not consider the N20 528i a car with an undersized engine. Over there it is in fact a middle of the range 5 series, or even a 'performance-oriented' version among all the diesel cars, with realistically more than enough oomph to be driven real fast on the Autobahn (and I mean going to the limiter fast = 155mph).

Just trying to give you a German perspective, not necessarily speaking for myself here ...
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  #58  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I see the badges including the roundel as part of the overall design. I prefer to keep them on. The car companies spend thought about the size, font, spacing, location etc. of badges and to me cars often look naked and modded without them.
So they made the right decision moving the crappy-looking xDrive badge from the side to the rear?

The xDrive badge looks bad in both places. But when you need to establish identity of your AWD brand, you do it even if it looks bad.
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  #59  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:10 PM
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I'm curious. Any ideas on what would replace the Roundel? ..........mercedes star
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  #60  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:18 PM
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Haha, now this is creating an understatement...
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  #61  
Old 02-17-2013, 04:00 PM
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Haha, now this is creating an understatement...
That's cool. That's truly "I don't give a f**k what other people think about what I do to my car!" look.
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  #62  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:11 PM
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Haha, now this is creating an understatement...
Nice find. This one causes physical pain to look at though.
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  #63  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:37 PM
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  #64  
Old 02-17-2013, 06:09 PM
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That's cool. That's truly "I don't give a f**k what other people think about what I do to my car!" look.
I totally agree.... the way it should be. I bought my car because I liked it - not because I care about what others think.
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  #65  
Old 02-17-2013, 06:27 PM
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I totally agree.... the way it should be. I bought my car because I liked it - not because I care about what others think.
This is exactly why i won't debadge my 528i.

other reason being, i actually like the badged look.
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  #66  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:30 PM
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Sorry to rain on the parade of the logic of some, but model designation badging is absolutely not part of car design and it's not the way cars were intended to look by their creators [read: designers]. Review the photos in the links below. When was the last time you saw an official BMW concept with a model designation badge?

Moreover, emblems (i.e.: the BMW roundel) are absolutely part of car design and either ground and center a design, bring proportion to it or both (think Mercedes Gullwing grill, with its oversized, low positioned star, which they're now using predominately for their coupe lines).

Also check out the BMW M1 Hommage concept in the last link; there are TWO roundels and there's NO model designation FOR A REASON.

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/image...t-Leaked-4.jpg

http://hypebeast.com/image/2011/04/bmw-m5-concept-6.jpg

http://brakebanzeen.files.wordpress....ncept-rear.jpg

http://www.auto-types.com/images/_au...pe-rear_71.jpg

http://b.images.boldride.com/bmw/200....34.554222.jpg

http://www.sportcarwallpaper.us/wp-c...cs-2007-10.jpg

http://www.superconceptcars.com/wp-c...-ActiveE-3.jpg

http://images.caricos.com/b/bmw/2008..._1600x1200.jpg

AND to top it all off, the official NAS BMW Z8 did not have badging (I imagine something its design team insisted upon)...

But don't get me wrong, I'm not stating what others should do, just that this debate has less to do with 'shame' and more with taste.

Last edited by dbs600; 02-17-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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  #67  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:44 PM
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dbs600 - I never thought of it that way.

I think you just gave the definitive answer for the eternal question about badging.
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  #68  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:56 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
Sorry to rain on the parade of the logic of some, but model designation badging is absolutely not part of car design and it's not the way cars were intended to look by their creators [read: designers]. Review the photos in the links below. When was the last time you saw an official BMW concept with a model designation badge?

When was the last time you could go out and buy a concept vehicle? That's a frankly ludicrous argument.

And when was the last time BMW sold a mainstream model without badging? The Z8 was absolutely badged, it was badged Z8. There was only one variant available.

You're going to have to do better than that...
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  #69  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:11 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
I think you just gave the definitive answer for the eternal question about badging.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
When was the last time you could go out and buy a concept vehicle?

And when was the last time BMW sold a mainstream model without badging? The Z8 was absolutely badged, it was badged Z8.
First of all, huh????? This has nothing to do with being or not being able to buy a car, it's about design.

Second, except for the M1 Hommage and Concept CS, the concepts shown are working, final design studies, that are virtually indistinguishable from what's on the road.

Last, the official North American Specification version of the Z8, sold in US dealers, were not delivered with badges. Only when Alpina came to the scene were some badged, but upon request.

Do you see one that's badged(?): http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Tru...1&_sc=1&_dct=1 And, no, they all weren't in rear end collisions. AND NOTE THE TOTAL OF FOUR ROUNDELS; come on man!

Last edited by dbs600; 02-17-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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  #70  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:33 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Right, but the discussion is about why some owners choose to debadge cars that would otherwise be badged from the factory. Design concepts aren't really any more relevant to that discussion than the designer's original drawings and models as they're not what the factory supplies to customers. My point was just that this particular argument is something of a non-sequitur for those reasons.
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Last edited by swajames; 02-17-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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  #71  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:05 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
Right, but the discussion is about why some owners choose to debadge cars that would otherwise be badged from the factory. Design concepts aren't really any more relevant to that discussion than the designer's original drawings and models as they're not what the factory supplies to customers. My point was just that this particular argument is something of a non-sequitur for those reasons.
You must have missed some of my prior posts in this thread, but to sum up:

Culture (at both manufacturer and owner levels) accounts for whether or not designations are present, but design accounts for whether or not designations should be present. Again, I'm not judging, just saying. And don't forget BMWNA requires badging (US being heavy on marketing and advertising), while BMWAG does not; it's like, do you really need someone driving next to you to know whether or not you have four wheel drive!? The badge is there so people look at it and say to themselves, "hey, I should look into this xDrive thing!".

While tenuated and far more egregious, I also relate this, design-wise, to appliances and electronics that have stickers and decals on them out of the box stating specifications (and to my dismay, I've crossed paths with some who don't remove same)... now that's shameful!

Last edited by dbs600; 02-17-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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  #72  
Old 02-17-2013, 09:43 PM
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mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
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My personal impression is that a lot of this badging obsession in the U.S. started with the E and S Class Mercedes.

Also - I always understood it to be more of a west coast thing...

And by west coast I mostly mean SoCal . Lol

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-17-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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  #73  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:07 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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"badging is absolutely not part of car design and it's not the way cars were intended to look by their creators"

Nonsense. All designers know that the cars will have badges and if you think the badges are just ordered by the admins and aimlessly slapped on the cars you are wrong. They are designed for each car just like any other trim.

Before debadging become popular you saw debadged cars only when they had been re-painted after an accident and the badges were on back order. Maybe that's why I think of a debadged car as looking unfinished or something suspect from a car con shop.

Last edited by solstice; 02-17-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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  #74  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:28 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
All designers know that the cars will have badges and if you think the badges are just ordered by the admins and aimlessly slapped on the cars you are wrong. They are designed for each car just like any other trim.
It's not whether or not designers 'know' their cars will have badging, it's that they don't design cars with badging in mind; being bound by such constraint would be inane! I'm also sure those who design cars are not the same as those who determine final badge placement; you realize how many hands are involved, right?

Badge font, size and spacing is also not as specific to each model as you suggest; it's more or less uniform throughout the entire model lineup over the course of generations, with only minute, incremental changes over long periods of time; 70's badging looking slightly different from 80's and 90's badging and 90's badging looking slightly different from what we've had since the early 00's.

Last edited by dbs600; 02-17-2013 at 11:16 PM.
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  #75  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:32 PM
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eWERK-E60 eWERK-E60 is offline
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Originally Posted by GTitis2013 View Post
I'm a German living in the US and here are my 2 cents. Some Germans probably want you to believe they drive a 'bigger' car, there are others who see de-badging as a way to keep a level of understatement, some just like the clean look. Style probably plays somewhat of a role for most and 'understatement' as a style is more en vogue in Europe.

Engine sizes are generally smaller compared to the same models sold in the US for several reasons, some of which were mentioned here. Environmental consciousness is big in Europe. But it is also true that luxury cars are expensive, actually significantly more expensive than in the US (ironically this includes German manufactured cars), therefore not that many can effort a luxury car with a large engine either. When they can effort it, people of course still like to show off, but most want to do it in an understated way.

For those who care about driving a big engine/fast car I think the perceived power of a car is often measured by how authoritatively you can pass other cars on the Autobahn at higher speeds.

The biggest satisfaction a German car enthusiast gains from passing a sports car on the Autobahn in a de-badged 'sleeper' station wagon at speeds upwards of 130mph.

Lieber Gruss-
+1
Agreed!
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