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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:06 AM
BlackThunder101 BlackThunder101 is offline
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Actually my bad, go for the 2010, there is nothing like driving a sports car
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  #27  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackThunder101 View Post
Actually my bad, go for the 2010, there is nothing like driving a sports car
lol. an e90 is not a sports car.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Yeah, just crazy. That's what the hundreds of thousands on E46 325i buyers thought of the 184 HP/175 lb-ft tq motor in that car.



Just imagine what it would be like if BMW had sold a 320i, a 318i, or a 316i back then. Would anyone have bought one? Oh wait. Yes they would have, and they did.
Back then being the operative words.
In a market like automobiles you can't look at what was acceptable 15 years ago and figure it is good enough now, no matter what your competition is doing. If so, who needs a 70 inch TV, 46 inch square sold well in 1999. Who really needs 8 gig of memory for your laptop, just a few years ago you got by with 2 if you were lucky. I can see the ads now "BMW the same ultimate drive we were 15 years ago, our competition has just caught up to us."
A 3300 lb car needs more than 180 HP today. Honda has a 4 cyl NA motor with 185HP and Hyundai has 190. Of course 0-60 isn't everything, but a BMW should be able to out sprint a mini van.
As for all the people in Europe who drive cars with less than 180 HP, it is Apples to Oranges. Very different market, different expectations. In the US market BMW needs to worry more about what Audi, Infiniti and even Caddillac is doing. N4S
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  #29  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
Back then being the operative words.
In a market like automobiles you can't look at what was acceptable 15 years ago and figure it is good enough now, no matter what your competition is doing. If so, who needs a 70 inch TV, 46 inch square sold well in 1999. Who really needs 8 gig of memory for your laptop, just a few years ago you got by with 2 if you were lucky. I can see the ads now "BMW the same ultimate drive we were 15 years ago, our competition has just caught up to us."
A 3300 lb car needs more than 180 HP today. Honda has a 4 cyl NA motor with 185HP and Hyundai has 190. Of course 0-60 isn't everything, but a BMW should be able to out sprint a mini van.
As for all the people in Europe who drive cars with less than 180 HP, it is Apples to Oranges. Very different market, different expectations. In the US market BMW needs to worry more about what Audi, Infiniti and even Caddillac is doing. N4S
Those are some bad examples. First i will start with your tv example

Obviously an old CRT wont work well today because the new standard is HDTV, something an OLD crt can not accomplish.

Also, more memory is require on computers for the advanced operating systems that they run.

If their was a law saying a car must accelerate to 60 in x. than yes, you would have an argument. But speed laws are unchanged, speed limits are the same.
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  #30  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Those are some bad examples. First i will start with your tv example

Obviously an old CRT wont work well today because the new standard is HDTV, something an OLD crt can not accomplish.

Also, more memory is require on computers for the advanced operating systems that they run.

If their was a law saying a car must accelerate to 60 in x. than yes, you would have an argument. But speed laws are unchanged, speed limits are the same.
The point isn't that the old product can't do what the new one does. It's that what was good enough 15 years ago isn't good enough now.
The laws may not have changed, but the market and the competition have. What was state of the art or in this case just the norm 15 years ago won't fly today. If BMW wants its new bench mark to be Honda and Hyundai, well and good, the 320 hits the mark. If it wants to compete in a market it dominated just 10 years ago 180HP isn't going to cut it. Why pay BMW money for something like that? Just buy the Honda and at least you will have a reliable car. Do you pay 400.00 a night for a 2 star hotel? Do you pay ocean front property prices for non ocean front real estate. I don't. N4S
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  #31  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
Back then being the operative words.
In a market like automobiles you can't look at what was acceptable 15 years ago and figure it is good enough now, no matter what your competition is doing. If so, who needs a 70 inch TV, 46 inch square sold well in 1999. Who really needs 8 gig of memory for your laptop, just a few years ago you got by with 2 if you were lucky. I can see the ads now "BMW the same ultimate drive we were 15 years ago, our competition has just caught up to us."
A 3300 lb car needs more than 180 HP today. Honda has a 4 cyl NA motor with 185HP and Hyundai has 190. Of course 0-60 isn't everything, but a BMW should be able to out sprint a mini van.
As for all the people in Europe who drive cars with less than 180 HP, it is Apples to Oranges. Very different market, different expectations. In the US market BMW needs to worry more about what Audi, Infiniti and even Caddillac is doing. N4S
There are a lot more factors than just horsepower.

Gearing, speeds of the transmission and torque are just a few examples.

Since day one, BMW has always had models with lower outputs than much of the competition.

You could buy an E36 323 or an E46 323/325, same with the E90 325, all modest output, all could be outpaced by a V-6 Midsize car. The 320 competes with those cars just fine in terms of straight line abilities, largely because of the BIG torque advantage.

Lets see how this thing does when it's released mmkay? See what power it really makes, see how it compares to the base 2.5L IS and 2.5L ATS and the like.
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  #32  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
The point isn't that the old product can't do what the new one does. It's that what was good enough 15 years ago isn't good enough now.
The laws may not have changed, but the market and the competition have. What was state of the art or in this case just the norm 15 years ago won't fly today. If BMW wants its new bench mark to be Honda and Hyundai, well and good, the 320 hits the mark. If it wants to compete in a market it dominated just 10 years ago 180HP isn't going to cut it. Why pay BMW money for something like that? Just buy the Honda and at least you will have a reliable car. Do you pay 400.00 a night for a 2 star hotel? Do you pay ocean front property prices for non ocean front real estate. I don't. N4S
Do you drive your Bimmers in anything other than a straight line? Have you ever driven one on a track or closed course?
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  #33  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
The point isn't that the old product can't do what the new one does. It's that what was good enough 15 years ago isn't good enough now.
The laws may not have changed, but the market and the competition have. What was state of the art or in this case just the norm 15 years ago won't fly today. If BMW wants its new bench mark to be Honda and Hyundai, well and good, the 320 hits the mark. If it wants to compete in a market it dominated just 10 years ago 180HP isn't going to cut it. Why pay BMW money for something like that? Just buy the Honda and at least you will have a reliable car. Do you pay 400.00 a night for a 2 star hotel? Do you pay ocean front property prices for non ocean front real estate. I don't. N4S
That is subjective. 100 years ago they also had 4 wheels and got from point A to point B.
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  #34  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:28 PM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by frozendarkness View Post
I know it seems like I can spend another $10k and step up to a $2013 335i, but that's not in the cards right now financially.

These are essentially the two cars I'm looking at:

2012 BMW 328i
http://www.sonnenbmw.com/VehicleDeta...-CA/1931606433

Pros: Newer car
More fuel efficient
More spacious

Cons: No Xenon
No park assist
No fold down backseats (really bmw?)

2010 BMW 335i
http://www.peterpanbmw.com/detail-20...d-9840433.html

Pros:
Much faster sport car
Cheaper and CPO
Easier retrofitting options

Cons:
Gas guzzler
No park assist
No fold down backseats (i guess it's okay in 2010)

The $10k or so difference (going to try to talk the 2010 down a bit) seems to balance out with the 2 year difference. There also doesn't seem to be ANY room for negotiation on the 2012 according to the car dealer because they just unpacked the car and is in hot demand (i'm not that sad, i think the price is fairly reasonable)what do you guys think?_a_
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
It's hard to say as we don't know the options on the 2012 (I didn't look at the 335). IMO $39,700.00 for a 2012 with 6500 miles sounds high unless it's loaded. Can you tell us the options? From the picture it's a Luxury Line.
It looks like 2012 is a base, there are few pictures popping up on the link, but the luxury line is blue, and description says black.
With 6,500 miles, it seems both cars are USED, and should be priced as such.
How did they just unpack it with 6,500 miles on it? This is a 2012 leftover, really in high demand? They have been selling 2013 since September. If you're buying the year makes a difference. This is a loaner or a demo that they need to get rid off.
Personally i would take the E90, but if you chose F30 make sure the price is right.
Considering brand new F30 can be bought for invoice +$500 or so, a used one with 6,500 miles should be sold at invoice less at least 5k.

Actually, i just noted it's pretty loaded, if the following is correct:
•SPORT LINE -inc: sports leather steering wheel, 18" x 8.0" double-spoke light alloy wheels (style 397) w/P225/45R18 run-flat performance tires, black exterior mirror caps, sport seats, high gloss black interior trim, coral red matte highlight trim finishers, sport suspension, anthracite headliner, sport line aesthetic elements, increased top speed limiter, black leatherette seat trim w/red highlights (REQ: 3DZ Without Lines Designation Outside Processing Code) (ZSL)
•PREMIUM PKG -inc: Dakota leather seat trim, universal garage door opener, comfort access keyless entry, pwr moonroof w/sunshade, auto-dimming exterior mirrors, auto-dimming rearview mirror, pwr front seats w/adjustable lumbar support, driver seat memory -inc: Dakota leather seat trim, universal garage door opener, auto-dimming pwr folding exterior mirrors w/2-position memory, auto-dimming rearview mirror w/compass, pwr front seats w/adjustable lumbar support, driver seat memory, BMW Assist w/4-year subscription, Bluetooth interface (ZPP)
•PREMIUM SOUND PKG -inc: Harman/Kardon surround sound, satellite radio w/1-yr subscription (ZPS)
•TECHNOLOGY PKG -inc: navigation system, Head-up Display, extended content instrument cluster, Real Time Traffic information (ZTP)
•HEATED STEERING WHEEL (248)
•ANTI-THEFT ALARM SYSTEM (302)
•HEATED FRONT SEATS (494)
•BMW ASSIST W/ENHANCED BLUETOOTH & USB -inc: online info services (6NL)
•BMW APPS -inc: smartphone integration (REQ: 6NL BMW Apps & ZTP Technology Pkg) (6NR)
There is probably close to 10K in options on this car. Maybe not a bad deal

Last edited by PK2348; 02-19-2013 at 04:38 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-19-2013, 06:19 PM
Seff5677 Seff5677 is offline
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I would not consider the 2012 328 or any BMW that does not have any XENON Lights!!

What kind of a bmw comes without xenon lights? C'mon
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  #36  
Old 02-19-2013, 07:34 PM
ronnyb29 ronnyb29 is offline
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I'd go with the F30 328i, the new technology is much improved over the e90!
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  #37  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:21 PM
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For the same price and options? 335 CPO all day long.
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  #38  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:44 PM
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  #39  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Do you drive your Bimmers in anything other than a straight line? Have you ever driven one on a track or closed course?
Yeah, the question should be do I ever drive in a straight line. There aren't too many around here. My driving for pleasue is more often 40 degree angles with switch backs. I don't bother going to the dragon anymore because it's too easy compared to whats in my (figurative) back yard. As for closed course, many many times. A long time client use to to own a short track.
The inference being if you want a car to have more power you can't appreciate good handling. Not true, I just want both. My whole point is that there are many more makes that will sell you both now vis a vie 15 years ago. BMW seems to be resting on it's roundel as others, Audi, Infiniti etc. are upping their game. N4S

Last edited by need4speed; 02-20-2013 at 05:38 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:10 AM
Edb5020 Edb5020 is offline
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IMHO, I'd get the 2012. Right off the bat it will have better resale because it's the newer F30 chassis. Also, I personally think it's a better looking car but to each his own! That 2011 335 is HOT though, but the Luxury Line paired with the Imperial Blue Metallic is a peach!
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  #41  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
BMW seems to be resting on it's roundel as others, Audi, Infiniti etc. are upping their game. N4S
Have you driven these others In a performance setting? I have and your statement doesn't line up with that experience.
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  #42  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:36 AM
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S5, XF, IPL? All of them bring some serious game. Even makes not directly in model to model competition with BMW, like the 14 Corvette or the 13 Boxster S have taken steps to improve the muscle and or handling on their cars. What does BMW do, it drops the power on it's intro 3 series to 180HP. About what it was 13 years ago. It also leaves the power on it's top rated 3 series motor the same as it has been since 2007. Oh, but they did numb the steering somewhat for us. To me the message BMW is sending is "We don't need to improve our cars, they have roundels on the hood." Look at Porsche (I know not direct competition) do they say, lets drop our base 911 back to 300HP, after all it was good enough for 1999? Am I saying I would take some/all of the competitors over BMW, no. I'm saying the other guys are gaining fast or pulling even and BMW with the exception of bumping up the 328 motor is doing nothing about it. In fact in some areas they are going the wrong way. N4S
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  #43  
Old 02-20-2013, 10:51 AM
Vic_LeChic Vic_LeChic is offline
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So much power difference. Do you like a spirited drive every now and then, or do you rather enjoy cruising along?
The 335 will give you a proper adrenaline shot. A 328 sounds OK, never tried one though. How much do you want or need the extra oomph?

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  #44  
Old 02-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need4speed View Post
S5, XF, IPL? All of them bring some serious game. Even makes not directly in model to model competition with BMW, like the 14 Corvette or the 13 Boxster S have taken steps to improve the muscle and or handling on their cars. What does BMW do, it drops the power on it's intro 3 series to 180HP. About what it was 13 years ago. It also leaves the power on it's top rated 3 series motor the same as it has been since 2007. Oh, but they did numb the steering somewhat for us. To me the message BMW is sending is "We don't need to improve our cars, they have roundels on the hood." Look at Porsche (I know not direct competition) do they say, lets drop our base 911 back to 300HP, after all it was good enough for 1999? Am I saying I would take some/all of the competitors over BMW, no. I'm saying the other guys are gaining fast or pulling even and BMW with the exception of bumping up the 328 motor is doing nothing about it. In fact in some areas they are going the wrong way. N4S
IMO you are making the mistake of looking at BMW vs sport cars and not the real competition which is Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac. Most buyers of these cars are not thinking of them as sport sedans but as entry level luxury cars with sophisticated engineering and features. What BMW gives you in the 320 is an entree into a BMW sedan at a lower price. The 328 is getting pricey but gives you more HP and better fuel economy which is required in 2013 and beyond. Even Porsche and Chevy are now using EPS by the way and there have been criticism of the Porsche steering in the newer 911 series. By the way the base Cayman has about 250 hp for about $50K stripped. And the C250 Mercedes and A4 Quattro are priced just slightly below the 328 and above the 320 yet are old tech and not as sporty.

The F30 gives you the faster engine with more HP, adjustable modes so you can have sporty response when you ask for it and more comfort at other times, better fuel economy and std iDrive.
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:30 AM
frozendarkness frozendarkness is offline
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THanks everybody, I ended up spending 41k out the door for a mineral gray 2012 328i with

premium
lighting
sound
PDC
cold weather
tech

only bad thing was that it came with 20k miles on it already, but it was driven by a "corporate guy"

i didn't think i got the best deal, but the ability to buy a car with everything i wanted is hard to come by.
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  #46  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:36 AM
suneil suneil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozendarkness View Post
THanks everybody, I ended up spending 41k out the door for a mineral gray 2012 328i with

premium
lighting
sound
PDC
cold weather
tech

only bad thing was that it came with 20k miles on it already, but it was driven by a "corporate guy"

i didn't think i got the best deal, but the ability to buy a car with everything i wanted is hard to come by.
that's $5k less than what I paid for a 2012 335i NEW.

i'm glad you're happy, but the dealer is MUCH MUCH happier.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:38 AM
frozendarkness frozendarkness is offline
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you spent 46k out the door for a brand new 335i? I should bring you on my next car shopping trip
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:42 AM
frozendarkness frozendarkness is offline
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honestly, the hardest thing for me was that the cars i wanted never last on a lot for longer than a week. living in the bay area drives up prices tremendously.
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:44 AM
suneil suneil is offline
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Originally Posted by frozendarkness View Post
you spent 46k out the door for a brand new 335i? I should bring you on my next car shopping trip
Sorry not OTD, add $1500 or whatever in taxes (since I had a trade in), but yes...if I told you what I paid for the maintenance and warranty extension to 6/100k, you'll $hit a brick.
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2013, 11:45 AM
suneil suneil is offline
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Originally Posted by frozendarkness View Post
honestly, the hardest thing for me was that the cars i wanted never last on a lot for longer than a week. living in the bay area drives up prices tremendously.
didn't realize you were in SF, yes, you actually probably got an ok deal...in CT, we have the option of going to NY or NJ, so "easier" to negotiate since a lot of those areas don't have as high of a concentration of $$ people as SF.
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