e39 audio filter

Hello, I currently upgrading my e39 non DSP 10 speaker system without a amplifier in the boot(yes I dont have amplifier in the boot).
On the list things to do are.
1- Take 4 RCA out from HU becker C53 (FL,FR,RL,RR). (FINISHED)
2- Install amplifier in the boot(not decided what amp)
3- Replace the 2 rear 5.25" speakers with 2 woofer 10" speakers s-4050 jse 150W RMS

My questions are.
Do I need to connect all the 4 out rca from my HU to the amplifier or the amp need only one signal?
How many output channel should my amp have 2,4,6?
The speaker( twitter, mid and woofer) that are already installed in the front door do they have a filter or I should install one in order to protect them from the amplifier signal?
In which equipment I get the stereo effect? How about the surround effect?

Thanks to all for helping

I believe you need to add filters for the tweeters, et al. You need to feed the amp with both channels to get stereo. Whether you use front and rear outputs will depend on whether your amp is set up for separate front and rear outputs.

Get an amp with separate outputs for the various speakers, and you will not need to install external filters.

Check out pdf attachment to this thread I posted.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...181&highlight=

If you have the patience to read it, all of the info you seek is there. It is based on North American spec cars which did have the rear mount amp but it still provides the technical information you need including what kind of passive crossover filters you will need if not using the rear mounted amp and not using an aftermarket amp that has filters built in.

If your E39 does not have rear amp, then I doubt it has the 3 way speakers in the door that we have in the USA. If all you have is a woofer and tweeter, the passive filter design would be a little different that what is described in the pdf I posted. If you are only driving a 2 way system in your doors, I recommend you buy an aftermarket amp with at least 4 channels that has active crossover filters built in. 4 channel amp would only drive the front door speakers. A 6 channel amp could drive the rear deck speakers also. Set the active crossover for the front speakers at 3000 Hz low pass for the woofers and 3000 Hz high pass for the tweeters. Look for an amp that has steep 24 dB per octave filter slopes. 12 dB per octave filters are OK but the 24 dB filters will sound better and protect the tweeters much better. If what I just wrote is beyond your understanding and you want to know more, let me know and I will provide you some links to more information.

You will get the stereo effect from the front door speakers. Forget about getting any kind of true surround sound without spending a lot of money on digital signal processors, multiple aftermarket amplifiers, and custom speaker installation. Stock speakers in stock locations with basic amplifiers are just not capable of doing this.

Thank you all for your answers. mda185 that pdf is great and responded allot of questions I had in mind.

My next question is.
I have 10 speakers installed but from behind the head unit I see only 4 channel coming out, that means that BMW is dividing 1 channel into 3 for the front door and 1 channel into 2 for the rear and that means that the speakers are not crossed over and filtered from the amplifier but they are crossed over and filtered at the dividing point. Am I right?
Below is the photo of my plug and a photo of the wires types.



And yes I have 3 speakers in the front door and don't have a amp in the back(It would be much easier if I had the amp in the boot)

im halfway thru adding an amp now.

you want an amp with four channels or else the fader and balance wont work.

you also want a component system with separate tweeters and midrange woofers plus external crossovers since you new amp wont have the filters.

also for the rca connections to the amp check out kicker's ZISL connectors. Made it real easy for me to get the signal.

Originally Posted by Topaz540i

im halfway thru adding an amp now.

you want an amp with four channels or else the fader and balance wont work.

you also want a component system with separate tweeters and midrange woofers plus external crossovers since you new amp wont have the filters.

also for the rca connections to the amp check out kicker's ZISL connectors. Made it real easy for me to get the signal.

Do you have bmw amplifier on the back?

Originally Posted by skifteri

Thank you all for your answers. mda185 that pdf is great and responded allot of questions I had in mind.

My next question is.
I have 10 speakers installed but from behind the head unit I see only 4 channel coming out, that means that BMW is dividing 1 channel into 3 for the front door and 1 channel into 2 for the rear and that means that the speakers are not crossed over and filtered from the amplifier but they are crossed over and filtered at the dividing point. Am I right?
Below is the photo of my plug and a photo of the wires types.



And yes I have 3 speakers in the front door and don't have a amp in the back(It would be much easier if I had the amp in the boot)

I don't know how the signal is filtered for your three speakers if you don't have an amplifier in the back. It is safe to assume that some kind of filter is used but I have no information on how BMW did this with euro market cars. My first guess is that there is still some kind of amplifier with filters between the head unit and the speakers. It was cheaper to do it this way than have passive crossover filters by the year 2000 in a production automobile. If there is no external amp with filters in your car, my next guess is that they just used blocking capacitors in front of the midrange and tweeter. Do you have your door panels off yet? The blocking caps are usually mounted with the driver. It would be best if you can find an Electronic Wiring Diagram (EWD) for your specific car.

If you buy an aftermarket amplifier, I can tell you that JL Audio and Soundstream both make amplifiers with built in filters that can be configured for a 3 way system with midrange. Not all of their amps have this feature so you need to shop carefully. I am sure other manufacturers also make amps like this but I have no experience with them. The key features you are looking for are:

1. 8 or 10 channels depending on if you want to drive the rear speakers as a 2 way set or just run a full range signal to the back. Many installers choose to just run the rears full range without a tweeter for ambient fill. I am doing an install in my E34 Touring with two 4 channel Soundstream amps. I am running the front stage as a 3 way and the rear speakers full range without a tweeter.

2. Ability to configure one pair of channels with a bandpass filter for the front door midrange. If you go this way, a good starting point is to cross the woofer to the midrange at 1000 Hz and midrange to the tweeter at 3500 Hz. It may be possible to go to a lower crossover frequency on the midrange but I have not tried this yet and won't recommend something that may damage your mid if I am wrong.

Hello,

What is the best way to pass the cable from the boot to the HU. I need to pass 4 cables, 2 for HU-Amp connection and 2 for Amp-Speaker connection.

Thanks

Originally Posted by skifteri

Hello,

What is the best way to pass the cable from the boot to the HU. I need to pass 4 cables, 2 for HU-Amp connection and 2 for Amp-Speaker connection.

Thanks

You will need to run down one of the sides of the car unless you have a reason to pull the carpets completely up. I have not done my E39 this way yet but on my E34 cars, I popped up the door sill trim plates, popped the carpet retaining clips up and pushed carpet towards the seats to make room to run the wires. Twisted pair preamp cables are highly recommended. If you can find 6 channel twisted pair cables that have front, rear, and subwoofer signals all in a single sheath, that is even better from noise reduction point of view. I made my own from military surplus twisted pair wiring with teflon outer covering. This type of cable is very tough and will outlast any car you install it in.

Originally Posted by mda185

You will need to run down one of the sides of the car unless you have a reason to pull the carpets completely up. I have not done my E39 this way yet but on my E34 cars, I popped up the door sill trim plates, popped the carpet retaining clips up and pushed carpet towards the seats to make room to run the wires. Twisted pair preamp cables are highly recommended. If you can find 6 channel twisted pair cables that have front, rear, and subwoofer signals all in a single sheath, that is even better from noise reduction point of view. I made my own from military surplus twisted pair wiring with teflon outer covering. This type of cable is very tough and will outlast any car you install it in.

Do you have any document how to run the cables from one side?

any help?

Originally Posted by skifteri

Do you have any document how to run the cables from one side?

No, I don't have anything documented. Try searching on the DIY Mobile Audio forum for E39 installs. You may find someone who did this and took pictures. You could also try searching on Bimmerforums audio and electronics forum. This is not that hard to do. I figured out how to do my E34 by doing it without any written instructions. What you hope to find are instructions on how to remove E39 carpet even though you are not removing it completely. You will have to remove the kick panel, the cover under the dashboard, the door sill trim, the rear seat, and it would help to also pull the driver's seat although not necessary. That will give you room to run the wires by partially removing the carpet.

Ok my projet is ongoing but I dont know where to take the remote turn on for the amp. I have taken it from the cd changer but it is always on