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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 02-24-2013, 05:17 PM
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Slaymaster Slaymaster is offline
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Just an FYI, in my 2011 manual, Amoco is the recommended gasoline by BMW. In my 2008 manual, Shell was BMW's recommended fuel.

Not to insult anyone, but why would one buy or lease a BMW and purchase cheap gas?

If you pull into a gas station and the cars filling up are 10 year old beaters with dragging tail pipes, scraping brakes, dents on every quarter panel, and I guy digging deep in his pockets for change, you're not in a quality fuel station.
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  #27  
Old 02-24-2013, 06:44 PM
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ausdude ausdude is online now
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My former high performance car, Mercedes CL600 V12, got about 12 mpg city. I used Costco premium for about a year. That's a lot of gas. I had some misfires. MB told me to stop going to the station I was going to. They said the had never seen a filter so dirty on one of their cars. so I stopped going their. I switched to Shell and Cheveron and my mpg actually went up a bit
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  #28  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:31 PM
JoeTwelvePack JoeTwelvePack is offline
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A bit of backstory to the gasoline distribution system in the US

Folks:

If I have a refinery in Houston making gasoline, I can put in on any number of pipelines (Colonial to NY, Longhorn (now Kinder Morgan) to El Paso and others). And so will the other refineries in the area. When the product is taken off the pipeline in Atlanta or New York, the molecules made by my plant are NOT the molecules i have in storage in one of those cities. It is mine and everybody else's who sent gasoline up Colonial during that cycle.

So the gasoline you get at a my station in Atlanta, may not be made by me.

So, if that's the case, why shouldn't I buy anybody's gas and have the F10 be happy.

As several other posters have mentioned, the Major oil companies have quality control standards, proprietary additives and a reputation to protect. If you buy from someone else, you run the risk of not getting decent gasoline.

I always buy Exxon, Shell or Chevron for my Porsche and F10.

And I haven't even begun to explain exchanges!

And don't get me started on E15!

Hope this helps, folks
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  #29  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:43 PM
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hufington hufington is offline
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Additives are really the only difference. To be more cost effective, many brands actually share the same transportation tubes for gas delivery, meaning individually branded stations within a certain area will use gas from the same terminal their competition uses. So it all starts out as the same product. But, itís what happens after the gas gets to any brand that makes the difference. And the difference is each brand's gasoline detergent additives. This established the difference between the branded gasoline products.

The additives can be described as detergents and other chemicals that are designed to keep gasoline from evaporating, keep engines from corroding, help engines perform well in different climates, and keep engines clean. Their goal is forming less deposits when the gasoline burns, for better mileage, performance and exhaust emissions. The distinctive additives go in as tank trucks are filled; the brands acquire their differences just before the gasoline is taken to stations. Before that they are all the same. All gasoline has additives. For unbranded gasolines, like those sold at low-cost outlets, the additive is a generic version that meets minimum federal standards, and the ratio is about a third of a gallon of additive to every 1,000 gallons of gasoline.

Major brands claim that their own additives are the most efficient ones while others' are not. Chevron, whose additive is acknowledged as the most expensive, says it keeps combustion chambers free of deposits while 'some of'' its competitors' additives will actually increase these deposits. Citgo claims that their additives include a corrosion inhibitor and a de-emulsifier that others don't have. Sunoco says its additives perform above the minimum levels in cleaning up intake valves and fuel injectors. Shell claims its formula keeps intake valves clean while cheap gas damages them.

Ethanol carries less energy than gasoline, but is cleaner, therefore it is better for the environment but means less fuel economy for us. Even Top Tier brands like Chevron and Exxon use some amount of ethanol (according to the EPA, E10 gasoline is used by over 90% of the US gas market).

Gasoline is graded by octane number, which rates its resistance to premature ignition, or engine knocking. Regular gas has an octane rating of 87, a medium grade is 89, and premium gasolines begin at 91 and go up. Higher-performance cars generally need higher octane. Racecars use a grade of over 100, which you won't find at your local station.

The differences in octane number on the other hand originate in chemical mixtures created at the refinery and different grades of gas are kept in separate containers during the distribution process. The right grade to buy is the one your particular car was engineered for.

I have worked a long time as a regional director for one of the World's top 4 oil companies and believe me, there is very little difference between the gasoline brands.

I would go with any premium brand like Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc. but most importantly with the highest possible octane rating while not paying a huge extra for any brand as the effect is not worth paying that extra for.
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13 BMW F10 535i RWD - 3.0 L 221 kW (300 hp) Bone stock except NAVI,PDC,Cam,Tint,Coded,HID Fogs,Debadged,Spoiler,BMS Stg1
07 BMW E64 630i - 3.0 L 200 kW (272 hp)
03 BMW E65 745i - 4.4 L V8, 242 kW (325 hp)
98 BMW E39 535i - 3.5 L 183 kW (245 hp)
95 BMW E34 540i - 4.0 L V8 210 kW (282 hp)
89 BMW E30 M3 non-cat 147 kW (200 hp)


15 MB W222 S550 4-Matic on order
10 Infiniti G37x Sedan
09 Mercedes C 350
08 Infiniti G35x Sedan
04 Mercedes CLK 350
01 Mercedes C 230
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  #30  
Old 02-24-2013, 07:56 PM
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DallasBimmer DallasBimmer is offline
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SHELL V-Power in all my cars for years!
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  #31  
Old 02-24-2013, 08:02 PM
JoeTwelvePack JoeTwelvePack is offline
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Well said, Dallas.

+1
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  #32  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:03 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is online now
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My manual recommends BP fuels. I've been going on that recommendation. But I'll certainly look at the options on the top tier list.
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  #33  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:40 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Additives are really the only difference. To be more cost effective, many brands actually share the same transportation tubes for gas delivery, meaning individually branded stations within a certain area will use gas from the same terminal their competition uses. So it all starts out as the same product. But, itís what happens after the gas gets to any brand that makes the difference. And the difference is each brand's gasoline detergent additives. This established the difference between the branded gasoline products.

The additives can be described as detergents and other chemicals that are designed to keep gasoline from evaporating, keep engines from corroding, help engines perform well in different climates, and keep engines clean. Their goal is forming less deposits when the gasoline burns, for better mileage, performance and exhaust emissions. The distinctive additives go in as tank trucks are filled; the brands acquire their differences just before the gasoline is taken to stations. Before that they are all the same. All gasoline has additives. For unbranded gasolines, like those sold at low-cost outlets, the additive is a generic version that meets minimum federal standards, and the ratio is about a third of a gallon of additive to every 1,000 gallons of gasoline.

Major brands claim that their own additives are the most efficient ones while others' are not. Chevron, whose additive is acknowledged as the most expensive, says it keeps combustion chambers free of deposits while 'some of'' its competitors' additives will actually increase these deposits. Citgo claims that their additives include a corrosion inhibitor and a de-emulsifier that others don't have. Sunoco says its additives perform above the minimum levels in cleaning up intake valves and fuel injectors. Shell claims its formula keeps intake valves clean while cheap gas damages them.

Ethanol carries less energy than gasoline, but is cleaner, therefore it is better for the environment but means less fuel economy for us. Even Top Tier brands like Chevron and Exxon use some amount of ethanol (according to the EPA, E10 gasoline is used by over 90% of the US gas market).

Gasoline is graded by octane number, which rates its resistance to premature ignition, or engine knocking. Regular gas has an octane rating of 87, a medium grade is 89, and premium gasolines begin at 91 and go up. Higher-performance cars generally need higher octane. Racecars use a grade of over 100, which you won't find at your local station.

The differences in octane number on the other hand originate in chemical mixtures created at the refinery and different grades of gas are kept in separate containers during the distribution process. The right grade to buy is the one your particular car was engineered for.

I have worked a long time as a regional director for one of the World's top 4 oil companies and believe me, there is very little difference between the gasoline brands.

I would go with any premium brand like Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc. but most importantly with the highest possible octane rating while not paying a huge extra for any brand as the effect is not worth paying that extra for.
I will only put Premium in any car that says it requires or even recommends Premium, but in the never ending "Premium VS 87/89" debate, one thing I heard which made me curious is that apparently the longer gas sits underground, the more it loses its "Octane"? Therefore I've heard someone say that considering 91+ gets bought drastically less than 87, you may be buying "older gas" therefore not getting the Octane your paying for. Is this any true?

Also, I've heard that you want to go to the busiest Gas Station that you can, because it means you're getting the freshest gas possible, i.e not something that just sits around under ground for a long time.
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  #34  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:13 PM
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hufington hufington is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I will only put Premium in any car that says it requires or even recommends Premium, but in the never ending "Premium VS 87/89" debate, one thing I heard which made me curious is that apparently the longer gas sits underground, the more it loses its "Octane"? Therefore I've heard someone say that considering 91+ gets bought drastically less than 87, you may be buying "older gas" therefore not getting the Octane your paying for. Is this any true?

Also, I've heard that you want to go to the busiest Gas Station that you can, because it means you're getting the freshest gas possible, i.e not something that just sits around under ground for a long time.
It is actually better to get some gas that has been in the tank longer since "fresh" gas that has just been poured into the tanks will move the sediments from the bottom of the tank because of the turbulance and it will not be as "clean" as"old" gas when pumped out of the tank despite the filters. Sediment in your gas can clog fuel filters and fuel injectors, causing poor performance and possibly necessitating repairs.

I never heard that it "looses" its octane though. Gasoline can be stored for a very long period without deterioration when the storage conditions are good (a tightly closed container and moderate temperatures). Gasoline containing ethanol is especially subject to absorbing moisture from the air, which ends up forming gums and solids. In the gas stations, gasoline storage tanks have floating membranes that act as a barrier preventing evaporation and mixing with atmospheric moisture.
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07 BMW E64 630i - 3.0 L 200 kW (272 hp)
03 BMW E65 745i - 4.4 L V8, 242 kW (325 hp)
98 BMW E39 535i - 3.5 L 183 kW (245 hp)
95 BMW E34 540i - 4.0 L V8 210 kW (282 hp)
89 BMW E30 M3 non-cat 147 kW (200 hp)


15 MB W222 S550 4-Matic on order
10 Infiniti G37x Sedan
09 Mercedes C 350
08 Infiniti G35x Sedan
04 Mercedes CLK 350
01 Mercedes C 230
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  #35  
Old 02-25-2013, 12:27 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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I would pick on from a Top Tier supplier.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Used to only use Shell V-Power until the station near me closed two years ago.

Have used Sunoco Ultra ever since, but see Sunoco's not listed as a 'top tier' supplier; is it not a 'top tier' gas?

Last edited by dbs600; 02-25-2013 at 12:30 AM.
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2013, 05:10 AM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Additives are really the only difference. To be more cost effective, many brands ....

I would go with any premium brand like Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc. but most importantly with the highest possible octane rating while not paying a huge extra for any brand as the effect is not worth paying that extra for.
Excellent post.

What do you think of Costco Signature Premium fuel?

The station near me in Atlanta is very busy, and the fuel flow rates are good. For those interested, every other car in line is a BMW or a Merc lol, but that's Atlanta for you.
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:49 AM
radarguy radarguy is offline
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Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Additives are really the only difference. ......

I would go with any premium brand like Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, etc. but most importantly with the highest possible octane rating while not paying a huge extra for any brand as the effect is not worth paying that extra for.
Excellent synopsis and well worth the long read. It all boils down to marketing proprietary additives which don't functionally differ among premium brands. Regardless of which brand of gasoline I use, my BMW service department wants me to get their $250 intake manifold and engine cleaning service because the gasoline detergents never get a chance to clean the intake manifold and valves on a direct injection engine.
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  #38  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:14 AM
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hufington hufington is offline
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Excellent post.

What do you think of Costco Signature Premium fuel?

The station near me in Atlanta is very busy, and the fuel flow rates are good. For those interested, every other car in line is a BMW or a Merc lol, but that's Atlanta for you.
Although Costco is advertising higher detergent levels than EPA standards, their additive (UltraZol 9888 not to be confused with Lubrizol 9888) is not in the EPA List of Certified Detergent Additives (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/regist.../web-detrg.htm). Advanced gasoline additives provide important benefits such as fuel economy, reduced emissions, sustained power output over time, engine cleanliness, driveability, reduced friction, etc.

I personally don't think that Costco gasoline is bad (or any other non-top tier brand such as Hess, Sunoco (USA), etc.), but you may see an increase of mileage with top tier gasoline and better power output. Most modern cars have injection systems that are very susceptible to impurities. On the long run, the engine would be cleaner with top tier gasoline products.

I'd not take a calculated risk of ruining my engine over time in order to save 10-15 cents a gallon, which may be offset by lower mileage.
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07 BMW E64 630i - 3.0 L 200 kW (272 hp)
03 BMW E65 745i - 4.4 L V8, 242 kW (325 hp)
98 BMW E39 535i - 3.5 L 183 kW (245 hp)
95 BMW E34 540i - 4.0 L V8 210 kW (282 hp)
89 BMW E30 M3 non-cat 147 kW (200 hp)


15 MB W222 S550 4-Matic on order
10 Infiniti G37x Sedan
09 Mercedes C 350
08 Infiniti G35x Sedan
04 Mercedes CLK 350
01 Mercedes C 230

Last edited by hufington; 02-25-2013 at 08:18 AM.
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  #39  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:28 AM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Although Costco is advertising higher detergent levels than EPA standards, their additive (UltraZol 9888 not to be confused with Lubrizol 9888) is not in the EPA List of Certified Detergent Additives (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/regist.../web-detrg.htm). Advanced gasoline additives provide important benefits such as fuel economy, reduced emissions, sustained power output over time, engine cleanliness, driveability, reduced friction, etc.

I personally don't think that Costco gasoline is bad (or any other non-top tier brand such as Hess, Sunoco (USA), etc.), but you may see an increase of mileage with top tier gasoline and better power output. Most modern cars have injection systems that are very susceptible to impurities. On the long run, the engine would be cleaner with top tier gasoline products.

I'd not take a calculated risk of ruining my engine over time in order to save 10-15 cents a gallon, which may be offset by lower mileage.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:33 AM
awesomeo3000 awesomeo3000 is offline
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Since we're all 2012 or 2013 F10 owners, has anybody looked into our manual to see what the BMW recommended brand is?
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2013, 01:57 PM
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Since we're all 2012 or 2013 F10 owners, has anybody looked into our manual to see what the BMW recommended brand is?
As far as I know, the recommended brands change depending on the sponsorship agreements between brands, i.e. BMW recommends Castrol as its engine oil since Castrol is pouring millions of dollars every year into BMW as a result of an investment agreement. I would not care too much about what BMW recommends.
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07 BMW E64 630i - 3.0 L 200 kW (272 hp)
03 BMW E65 745i - 4.4 L V8, 242 kW (325 hp)
98 BMW E39 535i - 3.5 L 183 kW (245 hp)
95 BMW E34 540i - 4.0 L V8 210 kW (282 hp)
89 BMW E30 M3 non-cat 147 kW (200 hp)


15 MB W222 S550 4-Matic on order
10 Infiniti G37x Sedan
09 Mercedes C 350
08 Infiniti G35x Sedan
04 Mercedes CLK 350
01 Mercedes C 230
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  #42  
Old 02-25-2013, 02:49 PM
Gilgorm Gilgorm is offline
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Since we're all 2012 or 2013 F10 owners, has anybody looked into our manual to see what the BMW recommended brand is?
The on-line manual at bmwusa.com for a 2012 535i X-drive recommends BP only.

I haven't checked my paper manual but BP is not in my area at all.

I've always used Shell V-Power, 91 octane, added winter additives, no ethanol.
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  #43  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:02 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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I remember reading that you should rotate the brand of fuel you used every few thousand miles to avoid building additive build up. Makes sense if you think about it...
This is true. Good practice is to use same fuel for a couple thousand miles then switch to another for same mileage then switch back. I rotate Shell/Chevron/BP.
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  #44  
Old 02-25-2013, 05:05 PM
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how about Costco premium?

Costco gas has made an effort to improve the additives. Stop by a Costco gas pump and read the additives. They seem to have their act together.

The amusing part of this discussion is that virtually all the gasoline delivered to the stations come from the same depot. The difference is what the driver puts into the tanker after they fill up from the refinery. Lets think about it. The additives that everyone believes is in their favorite gas is dependent on the driver who delivers the gas to the gas station. Does this make you a bit uncomfortable.

To be safe, every few months put a pint of the Techron additive and all will be good.
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  #45  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mjsbmw View Post
Costco gas has made an effort to improve the additives. Stop by a Costco gas pump and read the additives. They seem to have their act together.

The amusing part of this discussion is that virtually all the gasoline delivered to the stations come from the same depot. The difference is what the driver puts into the tanker after they fill up from the refinery. Lets think about it. The additives that everyone believes is in their favorite gas is dependent on the driver who delivers the gas to the gas station. Does this make you a bit uncomfortable.

To be safe, every few months put a pint of the Techron additive and all will be good.
Well Costco sabotaged my car.. read previous post
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  #46  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:41 PM
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Slaymaster Slaymaster is offline
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Since we're all 2012 or 2013 F10 owners, has anybody looked into our manual to see what the BMW recommended brand is?
I own a 2011 and the owners manual states BP, as I mentioned 10 or so posts ago.
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  #47  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:43 PM
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The BMW "recommendation" is obviously a marketing thing done by who's sponsoring/lining their pockets, hence how it changes without any components changing, i.e nothing to do with engineers. If anything it should go to show how little it matters what exclusive station you use.
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  #48  
Old 02-26-2013, 07:56 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
The BMW "recommendation" is obviously a marketing thing done by who's sponsoring/lining their pockets, hence how it changes without any components changing, i.e nothing to do with engineers. If anything it should go to show how little it matters what exclusive station you use.
I disagree. It is pretty well established that all gas is not equal. The Top Tier fuels have a minimum standard for their gas and it meets BMW criteria. BP also meets that criteria, but ONLY for their premium 93 octane gas. BP is not on the Top Tier list either because the regular and mid grade gas do not make the cut or they decided not to pay for Top Tier endorsement (I have no idea which it is), but I do know that BP ultimate meets Top Tier standards and that is why it gets BMW's endorsement. BMW also endorses Top Tier in the owner's manual (at least in some of them).
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 02-26-2013 at 07:58 AM.
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  #49  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
I disagree. It is pretty well established that all gas is not equal. The Top Tier fuels have a minimum standard for their gas and it meets BMW criteria. BP also meets that criteria, but ONLY for their premium 93 octane gas. BP is not on the Top Tier list either because the regular and mid grade gas do not make the cut or they decided not to pay for Top Tier endorsement (I have no idea which it is), but I do know that BP ultimate meets Top Tier standards and that is why it gets BMW's endorsement. BMW also endorses Top Tier in the owner's manual (at least in some of them).
Unfortunately, BMW recommends BP/Castrol purely for sponsorship reasons. When some other gasoline/engine oil brand comes with a better investment deal, BMW will switch to that brand in a heartbeat as most top brands (global petroleum companies) have at least one grade of fuel and one grade of lubricant to fit the minimum requirements by BMW.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:41 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Unfortunately, BMW recommends BP/Castrol purely for sponsorship reasons. When some other gasoline/engine oil brand comes with a better investment deal, BMW will switch to that brand in a heartbeat as most top brands (global petroleum companies) have at least one grade of fuel and one grade of lubricant to fit the minimum requirements by BMW.
I was told otherwise from what I thought to be a reliable source, but you may be correct. In any event, I think most of us agree that BP and Top Tier are probably the best fuels to use in our cars. Ironically, I could swear my 535i and x5M run best on Shell. This is my seat of the pants feel and I have no empirical data to back up that statement.
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