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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #126  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:22 AM
metrathon metrathon is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Or, you accidentally bought the status-seeker stripper because you didn't get the memo that BMW stripped out the performance and you have to pay for it now.

There are at least a dozen other car brands out there to satisfy someone on a budget who is ashamed of status-symbols; pity you didn't pick one, wouldn't be so grumpy.

BJ
You're quick to judge, and slow with sensible arguments. But that's fine, because you're also smart and entertaining
Like I said, I like my lil' Bimmer for what it is: a noisy, fun, spirited car, full of personality. I think it's a keeper. If I decide on something else before the lease it's up, I can pass it to my wife (she likes it too) or I can give the lease to someone else (at $470 and 0 down it's a steal).

However that doesn't mean that I'm kissing the BMW God's feet like you're doing - and some say I should, after 5 Bimmers in 7 years. Fortunately I'm over that Bimmer fever that you're still struggling with, and I think I can judge things with a cool(er) head.

So not grumpy, not frustrated, just seeing the car for what it really is.
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  #127  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:24 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
If that was the case, the media would bash the he'll out of the car. The media is mentioning the slight toning down of certain elements, so its not like they are afraid to call it out how it is now.

Now, if BMW keeps it up, and keeps toning this down further, well we will talk then as I very well wont buy another 3 series. But for now,nothing THAT extreme has happened.
True. Extremes would be bad in either direction (more sport OR more mainstream). Why media didn't bash it as they did Jetta and (less) Passat? Who knows, maybe if this F30 was made in Spartanburg for U.S. market only and another and different 3 series was made in Munich for the rest of the world ... maybe then they would? You know, nothing better to compare it to?
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Last edited by Mark K; 03-06-2013 at 08:27 AM.
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  #128  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:28 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
True. Extremes would be bad in either direction (more sport OR more mainstream). Why media didn't bash it as they did Jetta and (less) Passat? Who knows, maybe if this F30 was made in Spartanburg for U.S. market only and another and different 3 series for the rest of the world ... maybe then they would? You know, nothing better to compare it to?
Not sure what you have been reading.

The new Passat has been very well reviewed.

The Jetta started out being slammed with the beam axle, crappy, interior and build quality. But the higher end trims like the GLi got the better engine, independent rear, and better interior materials, so those have been much better reviewed. So its not all doom and gloom over at VW either.

My E36/7 is made in the US and has a great solid build quality to it, so I have faith.
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  #129  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:55 AM
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FreddyG FreddyG is offline
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Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
Now you're pushing my words into extreme, to make your point

You're right, it's a reduction not an elimination. But it's a CONTINUOUS reduction, from model to model and in 5 years it will be indeed an elimination, if you compare the next Dreier with the E46 let's say.

How come, the first ATS that gets through the door of Cadillac factory gets reviewed as being more "sportier" than the 3 Series? How did that happened? Did Cady get lucky and draw the right lines, or indeed the 3 lost its sporty mojo?

Anyway, the changes the 3 went through is something that I personally like. I'm not a sporty driver, I prefer a softer car, bigger, better sound proofing. I like the direction. But soon is not going to be the Ultimate Driving Machine anymore. It's like you say that Magic Johnson is the best player. No dude, he's 800 pounds now and cannot climb 40 steps. He WAS the best, now all he has is the name.
Just like you stated, it depends on what type of driving you do.

Personally, we have a car that is Race Track friendly, sportier, etc. for times that we want to have a fun Sunday drive and our 335i for every day driving. I like the direction that BMW went with the F30 (Don't care for the seat or the start/stop too much, but that's easy enough to turn off and the seats can be changed). They still have a sporting lineage that shows in the M Series too. That's what I do like is that you can buy a car according to what you want.

By the way, Michael Jordan was the Best player of all time, but we'll just have to agree to disagree!

Now if they had an eating contest, Magic would win!
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  #130  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:10 AM
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chris328 chris328 is offline
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just wait until the 320 comes out, every kid will have one.
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  #131  
Old 03-06-2013, 09:13 AM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW's strategy is like Armani suits. It's one thing in multiple sizes.

Depending on your age, family size, and status-symbol needs, grab a BMW Sedan, pick your size, enjoy your luxury.

3 = Small
5 = Medium
7 = Large

As a daily commuter car, travel-soccer driver, ballet-recital mover, and travel-baseball hauler in swanky Bergen County, I chose a $50,000 3 Series fully loaded. I could have instead chosen a $50,000 5 Series stripped if my family needs required it. The 7 Series will never be for me, it's just too big, I've got a minivan or an SUV for that purpose.

BJ
Hopefully, you can acknowledge there is a bit more difference other than size when comparing a $50k 3 Series to a $100k 7 Series. I've owned BMWs with four different leathers. I'm not a fan of the their Nevada or Dakota leathers. Merino is okay, but I'm not sure why it is BMW's top of the line leather. This leaves Nappa as my favorite BMW leather. That said, smooth/soft Nappa isn't for young children, but I would probably want leatherette in that situation.

3 = Leatherette (Dakota optional)
5 = Dakota (Nappa optional)
7 = Nappa (Merino optional)

Back on subject:
3 = Halogen (HID optional)
5 = HID
7 = HID (LED Optional)

After owning each type of BMW headlights, HIDs are well worth their $900 premium over halogens and LEDs are well worth the $1,900 premium over the HIDs.
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  #132  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:25 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is offline
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I have seen the mention of 3 series as a 50k luxury sedan - this is only partially correct. It can give you performance, luxury, status or combinations of all 3. Those saying this is only for luxury bought it for the same and are getting it and are happy with it.

There are others who bought for performance, skip on pdc, camera, hk, PP, TP and chose ZDH, performance exhaust, sports auto - then they add H&R springs and boost engine, etc.

Then there are more who buy it for status - they add ZDH and sports auto for the heck of it, and flaunt their rides.

We can see 3 different customer bases with different expectations. There might be other ways of achieving the above as well. And mind you, I haven't even started on the huge difference between inline6 and 4-cylinder (328 vs 335). Taking these 2 engines into account, we have at least 6 customer bases that 3 series caters to.

Not going into discussion about 320 at all. I feel its not right to attack and belittle a customer base just because its different from yours. Not pointing fingers at anyone.

Just in case someone wonders, I bought for luxury, performance and its appearance... I cant stop drooling over em

(Just wanted to add that there are some who dont even know whats under their hood let alone over their wheels )

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Last edited by Crzy'boutBimmer; 03-06-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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  #133  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:36 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post

And mind you, I haven't even started on the huge difference between inline6 and v4 (328 vs 335).



(Just wanted to add that there are some who dont even know whats under their hood let alone over their wheels )

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The two sentences from your quote left together are too funny. When you consider that one of the engines does not exist for the 3 series lol. I am just teasing though, I am sure you know the difference between a V4 found in an 50 year old Saab(Ford) or a motorcycle and an inline 4 typical of a car.
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  #134  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:41 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is offline
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Yes- I do know.... just a slip of 'words'... eh? Lol

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  #135  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:44 AM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is offline
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Fixed..

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  #136  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:47 AM
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chris328 chris328 is offline
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Jameson Viggen holdin it down!
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  #137  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:51 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
Yes- I do know.... just a slip of 'words'... eh? Lol

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Like I said, just a bit of teasing.
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  #138  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:54 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
My E36/7 is made in the US and has a great solid build quality to it, so I have faith.
Oh, I wasn't talking about build quality, no problems there with being built in Spartanburg. What I was trying to say is two different (totally different) versions of 3 series - say, F30 and F90, for example. One specifically for U.S. market only and the other one for the rest of the world. Just like Passat, for example.

I won't go trawling with Google, but I do remember reading more than once that we still have CC for those who want to buy a real Passat - not verbatim, but more than clear. Hardly a compliment. Now, that it won a lot of comparos with what's available HERE is not disputed. However, that's no indication how it compares with same model made for ROW.
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  #139  
Old 03-06-2013, 12:10 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
Oh, I wasn't talking about build quality, no problems there with being built in Spartanburg. What I was trying to say is two different (totally different) versions of 3 series - say, F30 and F90, for example. One specifically for U.S. market only and the other one for the rest of the world. Just like Passat, for example.

I won't go trawling with Google, but I do remember reading more than once that we still have CC for those who want to buy a real Passat - not verbatim, but more than clear. Hardly a compliment. Now, that it won a lot of comparos with what's available HERE is not disputed. However, that's no indication how it compares with same model made for ROW.
I liked the feel and build of my CC way more than the domestic Passat. They lowered the price like $8k going from b7 to b8. The money comes from somewhere.
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  #140  
Old 03-06-2013, 12:55 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
BMW is a luxury brand, so the elevator is heading down when it gets deconstructed, feature after feature that you expect in a luxury car get lost. Conversely, Volkswagen is a base brand, so the elevator is heading up when it's being reconstructed.
While technically that may not be true, I understand your position. I definitely agree that BMW is a luxury brand. I think I'd be hard pressed to find anybody that would see an F30 and say "man, what a cheap crappy car". The vast majority of people would love to be able to even drive one at some point in their life, let alone own one.

But I disagree with your assessment that a stripped BMW is somehow less of a BMW. I currently drive a completely stripped 2011 328i. It has leather (it was free) and AT, but nothing else. And I absolutely love the car. I've never had a situation where somebody looked down on me because my BMW didn't have tons of extra options. All they see is "BMW".

You know, there are people out there that still use a cell phone as a phone and nothing else. They couldn't care less about using their phone to post stuff on Facebook every 5 minutes, browse the internet, or take pictures. Likewise, there are people who own a car just for the enjoyment of driving, and obviously to get from A to B. Extra options don't make the car. My base 328i that I got for around $40k DRIVES exactly the same as a 328i with nav, a rear camera, a moonroof, etc. In fact it may even drive better because it weighs a bit less. And to me, that's what's important. Some people may buy BMW's for the image, some for the luxury....I buy it mainly for the driving experience. Everything else is icing on the cake, but a cake can be good without icing too
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  #141  
Old 03-06-2013, 01:04 PM
metrathon metrathon is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
While technically that may not be true, I understand your position. I definitely agree that BMW is a luxury brand. I think I'd be hard pressed to find anybody that would see an F30 and say "man, what a cheap crappy car". The vast majority of people would love to be able to even drive one at some point in their life, let alone own one.

But I disagree with your assessment that a stripped BMW is somehow less of a BMW. I currently drive a completely stripped 2011 328i. It has leather (it was free) and AT, but nothing else. And I absolutely love the car. I've never had a situation where somebody looked down on me because my BMW didn't have tons of extra options. All they see is "BMW".

You know, there are people out there that still use a cell phone as a phone and nothing else. They couldn't care less about using their phone to post stuff on Facebook every 5 minutes, browse the internet, or take pictures. Likewise, there are people who own a car just for the enjoyment of driving, and obviously to get from A to B. Extra options don't make the car. My base 328i that I got for around $40k DRIVES exactly the same as a 328i with nav, a rear camera, a moonroof, etc. In fact it may even drive better because it weighs a bit less. And to me, that's what's important. Some people may buy BMW's for the image, some for the luxury....I buy it mainly for the driving experience. Everything else is icing on the cake, but a cake can be good without icing too
This is one of the nicest replies I've seen so far.

The undeniable truth is that luxury is in the eye of the beholder. What cracks me up tho, is the uber-Mensch trying to frame his/her opinion as the all encompassing truth.
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  #142  
Old 03-06-2013, 01:31 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
This is one of the nicest replies I've seen so far.

The undeniable truth is that luxury is in the eye of the beholder. What cracks me up tho, is the uber-Mensch trying to frame his/her opinion as the all encompassing truth.
I went in with a number in mind of what I was going to spend a month. When I do this, it's a hard number, not $2 over. Seriously. I have no interest in cracking $1000 a month between my wifes car payment and mine. Does not matter to me that I could afford more, a 335, an M3... My mental cap was mine.

To get my number it meant ordering a base car with metallic paint and heated front seats. Thats it. It's all I needed. It was not some kind of stripper and to most It would have been a new '13 BMW.

It just so happened a friend cancelled their order on this MSport over the missing BT, this is the car I would have ordered if the extra $100 a month did not cross my mental limit.

Through negotiations I bought his car instead and for LESS than my base no line order.

I would have enjoyed the first car. This one, has no xenons or tech, no BT. Some would not dare enjoy such a car. But for me, to have all of this, the MSport, the moonroof, all for less then I would have paid for the first order, I love it. I feel rich for getting this car as cheap as I did
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F30: 6mt, for sale 9/14

'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt TUNED

Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 03-06-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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  #143  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:06 PM
Supermax Supermax is offline
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Another thing I thought of, regarding the comparison between the 3, 5, and 7 series. As far as I'm concerned, 5's and 7's are not better cars. I really like the 3. I don't like big cars. My last car was a Nissan Maxima, and I much prefer the smaller 3 series.

You all may say I'm crazy, but if someone came up to me and promised to give me a 7 series for the price of a 3 (with the caveat that I have to keep it, not sell it for a profit), I would likely decline. I just can't see myself in a 7. It's a HUGE car, and it won't drive anything like a 3 series. Sure, it would turn more heads, but it won't give me the same enjoyment as a 3. So for me, it just doesn't have the same value as a 3, even though it costs up to like 4 times more.
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  #144  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:11 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Another thing I thought of, regarding the comparison between the 3, 5, and 7 series. As far as I'm concerned, 5's and 7's are not better cars. I really like the 3. I don't like big cars. My last car was a Nissan Maxima, and I much prefer the smaller 3 series.

You all may say I'm crazy, but if someone came up to me and promised to give me a 7 series for the price of a 3 (with the caveat that I have to keep it, not sell it for a profit), I would likely decline. I just can't see myself in a 7. It's a HUGE car, and it won't drive anything like a 3 series. Sure, it would turn more heads, but it won't give me the same enjoyment as a 3. So for me, it just doesn't have the same value as a 3, even though it costs up to like 4 times more.
I bought an fo1 7 long wheel base for my boss(his money, my finding and negotiating). Culturally, they want big cars with a big wheelbase to be driven in. Each time the team would go to lunch he would ask if I wanted to drive because he would prefer to be driven. He said when his mother was in town she would never ever sit in front and would only be driven as a rear seat passenger.

The last 7 series I would own is an e38 swb with the Sports package. Everything since is less of a drivers car and more of a car to be driven in and bigger and bigger. That's my outlook. I am sure there a people here with f01s who love driving them.
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'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt TUNED
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  #145  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:32 PM
thegandalf thegandalf is offline
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Another thing I thought of, regarding the comparison between the 3, 5, and 7 series. As far as I'm concerned, 5's and 7's are not better cars. I really like the 3. I don't like big cars. My last car was a Nissan Maxima, and I much prefer the smaller 3 series.

You all may say I'm crazy, but if someone came up to me and promised to give me a 7 series for the price of a 3 (with the caveat that I have to keep it, not sell it for a profit), I would likely decline. I just can't see myself in a 7. It's a HUGE car, and it won't drive anything like a 3 series. Sure, it would turn more heads, but it won't give me the same enjoyment as a 3. So for me, it just doesn't have the same value as a 3, even though it costs up to like 4 times more.
Would your answer change if they would also throw in a chaufer? (Probably not, huh?).

I see what you are saying.
Ignoring the fact that at this point a 7 is really out of my league, even if it wasn't that is not a car I see myself in, at this point. Maybe when I a 65?
The only reason I would have considered a 5 (E60) over a E90 (an maybe not even then) was because of some of the gadgets not available on the E90 (yes I do like gadgets).

So the F30 is a car that I really see myself on at this point (and even then, and I don't know why, I cannot stand the wood trims - please don't hate me, I am not criticising any one who chose wood trim - I guess it's just that I have a mental block where wood trim reminds me of my Grandad cars).
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  #146  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:41 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
Another thing I thought of, regarding the comparison between the 3, 5, and 7 series. As far as I'm concerned, 5's and 7's are not better cars. I really like the 3. I don't like big cars. My last car was a Nissan Maxima, and I much prefer the smaller 3 series.

You all may say I'm crazy, but if someone came up to me and promised to give me a 7 series for the price of a 3 (with the caveat that I have to keep it, not sell it for a profit), I would likely decline. I just can't see myself in a 7. It's a HUGE car, and it won't drive anything like a 3 series. Sure, it would turn more heads, but it won't give me the same enjoyment as a 3. So for me, it just doesn't have the same value as a 3, even though it costs up to like 4 times more.
Would you like to have choice to pick any of the options available on a 7 Series, but in a smaller 3 Series package? It might be an $80k 3er, but it will satisfy BJ's theory that they are similar luxury cars, just different sizes. The Alpina B3 in the other thread might be such a car.
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  #147  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermax View Post
While technically that may not be true, I understand your position. I definitely agree that BMW is a luxury brand. I think I'd be hard pressed to find anybody that would see an F30 and say "man, what a cheap crappy car". The vast majority of people would love to be able to even drive one at some point in their life, let alone own one.

But I disagree with your assessment that a stripped BMW is somehow less of a BMW. I currently drive a completely stripped 2011 328i. It has leather (it was free) and AT, but nothing else. And I absolutely love the car. I've never had a situation where somebody looked down on me because my BMW didn't have tons of extra options. All they see is "BMW".

You know, there are people out there that still use a cell phone as a phone and nothing else. They couldn't care less about using their phone to post stuff on Facebook every 5 minutes, browse the internet, or take pictures. Likewise, there are people who own a car just for the enjoyment of driving, and obviously to get from A to B. Extra options don't make the car. My base 328i that I got for around $40k DRIVES exactly the same as a 328i with nav, a rear camera, a moonroof, etc. In fact it may even drive better because it weighs a bit less. And to me, that's what's important. Some people may buy BMW's for the image, some for the luxury....I buy it mainly for the driving experience. Everything else is icing on the cake, but a cake can be good without icing too
Good post. I like all BMW's and all BMW owners. I just get a bit perturbed when a BMW owner feels the need to hide from the badge, as if personal success is something to be ashamed of.

It's hard not to think of a stripped F30 as a "lesser" car because so much is lost by eschewing some of the packages, especially Sport line or DHP. Without those, it's not achieving the performance of E30, E36, E46, and E90 ancestors, and car gets reduced to only it's luxury benefits. That would be a good thing except without the Premium and Technology packages you aren't achieving the levels of a Honda or a VW.

A stripped F30 is a car in no-mans land. Won't handle like a sport sedan, won't feel like a luxury car. That's why those who own them make such disparaging comments like "it's nothing special" or "it's an entry-level car". Because in their need to keep the price way down, they've created exactly that- an entry-level car that is neither sporty nor luxurious. That's not what BMW intended the F30 to be nor is it proper to be judged correctly in that configuration.

BJ
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  #148  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:55 PM
thegandalf thegandalf is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Would you like to have choice to pick any of the options available on a 7 Series, but in a smaller 3 Series package? It might be an $80k 3er, but it will satisfy BJ's theory that they are similar luxury cars, just different sizes. The Alpina B3 in the other thread might be such a car.
I really don't think BJ has ever equated the F30 to a 7 Series.
His point is mainly that BMW is regarded by many as a luxury brand first (I know I am drawing fire here) and the 3 Series is indeed one of their entry level cars. Entry Level Luxury (as noted by Jamesonsviggen) if you will.

Maybe once you own one, and finally get into the brand that the 3 is really not that luxurious compared to the other BMW models and that it has more of a sporty character.
But I am sure if you take a survey of drivers in sub 24k cars, they will tell you that BMW is in many ways in another league.

For a lot of this people, getting into a BMW is indeed a way to tell the world that you have arrived.
Some of them will get to know the brand and come to regard it as something different.
Many others won't and will keep getting bimmers (or jumpt to Audi, MB) as a way to say: I am still here.
The softening/smoothing of the F30 compared to the E90 is a clear indication that BMW realizes this and is cattering to them.

I am sure that BMW has realized (or will soon do it) that the competition is improving is starting to hurt in a way that will draw many of it's loyal Enthousiast customers to try other products (like the ATS). BWM will then have to address this (I am sure they don't want to push anyone out of the fold) by adding a new variant of the F30 (I think this is more likely than having to introduce another model) to ensure they keep catering to this specific community.
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  #149  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thegandalf View Post
I really don't think BJ has ever equated the F30 to a 7 Series.
His point is mainly that BMW is regarded by many as a luxury brand first (I know I am drawing fire here) and the 3 Series is indeed one of their entry level cars. Entry Level Luxury (as noted by Jamesonsviggen) if you will.
BJ was pretty clear in post 117: "It's one thing in multiple sizes." I also agree with Jamesonsviggen that each model offers additional luxury features as they grow in both cost and size. I have nothing against the 3er, as I have one parked in my garage right now, but my 5er was more luxious than my 3er and my 6er is more luxious than my 5er. Interestingly enough, as the price increases, so does the luxury content. Go figure. The luxury content has nothing to do with getting from point A to point B, but it can affect how you feel wheel travelling from point A to point B. Going from 12-way adjustable seats to 18-way to 20-way fines tunes the comfort. Other luxury items have nothing to do with comfort, so I'm still not sure why having ceramic controls is better than having the chrome-look plastic, but a Rolex doesn't keep time as well as a Timex, so I guess it is one of those intrinsic luxury features that people seem to covet.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:49 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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The 3 is a gateway drug. That's how BMW dreams it. Welcomes you into the fold, now the 320 does it for even less. As you move up in the world, they hope to welcome you back and have you spend more money with them. It's no different for any of the other brands who started in the three sausages of different sizes game...BMW 3-5-7, Audi A4-A6-A8, Lexus IS-GS-LS, Acura TSX-TL-RLX, Cadillac ATS-CTS-XTS, MB C-E-S. Things have gotten muddled over the years with offshoots and niche versions, but that structure is what the brands were built on.
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