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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2013, 04:26 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Almost there....

Whattaya say, bleeding edge watchers? Is BMW into driverless tech?

Signs of the times:
Picture it: Walking toward your BMW, you verbally instruct it to take you to destination X by cell phone....as you come near your car lights up & opens your door for you; you get in and as you glide gently away, feeling no bumps / undue motion, you position your VR audio-visual head set....your experience begins.

.

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Old 02-26-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Whattaya say, bleeding edge watchers? Is BMW into driverless tech?

Signs of the times:
Picture it: Walking toward your BMW, you verbally instruct it to take you to destination X by cell phone....as you come near your car lights up & opens your door for you; you get in and as you glide gently away, feeling no bumps / undue motion, you position your VR audio-visual head set....your experience begins.

.
I would want this technology ................................. in a helicopter!
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:43 AM
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First manuals start to go....soon there will be little left in the phrase, "Joy to drive"
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:14 AM
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That would be a radically different meaning of "The Ultimate Driving Machine"....
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:39 AM
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The Ultimate Driving Machine may transmogrify into The Ultimate Living Room eventually (it seems to already be underway). But it won't be because of 'driverless' roads, we'll never see them in the US.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:46 AM
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The Ultimate Driving Machine may transmogrify into The Ultimate Living Room eventually (it seems to already be underway). But it won't be because of 'driverless' roads, we'll never see them in the US.
As soon as you see one crash because of some glitch or something and kills everyone inside, I would imagine then, and only then, will you see the end of driver-less cars.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:58 AM
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As soon as you see one crash because of some glitch or something and kills everyone inside, I would imagine then, and only then, will you see the end of driver-less cars.

Beg t'differ - happens every day in driver piloted cars. In fact, driverless cars promise an end to collisions and horrible commutes. Also reduction in road maint, fuel expense.....you get the idea....gonna happen....
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tmcgrew1788 View Post
As soon as you see one crash because of some glitch or something and kills everyone inside, I would imagine then, and only then, will you see the end of driver-less cars.
The problem with 'driverless' controls begins with the on-board control expense, and is amplified logorithmically by support infrastructure expense. Add a dose of liability costs and suddenly cars, or gasoline, cost twice what they do now.

All that still may not be the kiss of death. What will kill driverless cars will be the fact that vehicle separation will be far greater than it is now, not less as proponents claim. Now each car will take up twice the real estate it did with an engaged driver, and there will be no increase in roadbed available. Commutes will be a good time to take a nap. Except that the driver will be required to be in the driver's seat and ready to instantaneously assume control in case of failure.

So then the point of driverless driving is...what? Well, I'm afraid the answer to that question will get this thread bounced to Political Science, so I'll let it hang in the air.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
The Ultimate Driving Machine may transmogrify into The Ultimate Living Room eventually (it seems to already be underway). But it won't be because of 'driverless' roads, we'll never see them in the US.

Betcha it'll be VR like we've yet to see. That climate controlled pod will become the Ultimate Driving Experience. Hey, that'll sell....

Imagine gaming in what appears to be and feels like a real space ship. Dueling with Vader....AI story line....driving's gonna be a whole diff thing....you won't want t'get out!

Sharpen your electrical engineering skills.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:11 AM
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Beg t'differ - happens every day in driver piloted cars. In fact, driverless cars promise an end to collisions and horrible commutes. Also reduction in road maint, fuel expense.....you get the idea....gonna happen....
I completely agree with every single thing you've said however, it's going to be the perception that someone could have prevented it if they had been driving vs. a computer. Does it make sense? Nope since people with common sense understand that the statistics would probably support driver-less cars, but the fact that a computer "killed" someone, I think, would be enough to end it for a longgggg time.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tmcgrew1788 View Post
I completely agree with every single thing you've said however, it's going to be the perception that someone could have prevented it if they had been driving vs. a computer. Does it make sense? Nope since people with common sense understand that the statistics would probably support driver-less cars, but the fact that a computer "killed" someone, I think, would be enough to end it for a longgggg time.
I'm not sure an accident of any kind, even a series of them, would end driverless transportation. After all, aircraft crash dramatically and there's no significant reduction in flying.
I have to differ with Cal on this one. Like the Flying Pinto (Google it), driverless driving's time will never come. Sure there's going to be hype in Popular Mechanics, pushes by special interest groups of every stripe, and desire for technology for technology's sake (like iDrive and MyTouch), but in the end people just aren't going to pay for it. Especially when they see that the king has no clothes.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:18 AM
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I would want this technology ................................. in a helicopter!
Already is in use delivering supplies to combat troops in Afghanistan.
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
The problem with 'driverless' controls begins with the on-board control expense, and is amplified logorithmically by support infrastructure expense. Add a dose of liability costs and suddenly cars, or gasoline, cost twice what they do now.

All that still may not be the kiss of death. What will kill driverless cars will be the fact that vehicle separation will be far greater than it is now, not less as proponents claim. Now each car will take up twice the real estate it did with an engaged driver, and there will be no increase in roadbed available. Commutes will be a good time to take a nap. Except that the driver will be required to be in the driver's seat and ready to instantaneously assume control in case of failure.
So then the point of driverless driving is...what? Well, I'm afraid the answer to that question will get this thread bounced to Political Science, so I'll let it hang in the air.
Interesting perspective. One of my work colleagues drives an 8 month old Prius. This thing has all the techno-toys Toyota packs in. Auto braking, auto steering, auto cruise control. This colleague also has a 50 mi one way commute across Houston where he has ample opportunity to put all these toys to use. He has commented that:

1) the auto speed control and vehicle spacing can get a bit dicey, especially in heavy traffic where people are making spur of the moment lane changes and traffic goes from 40 to 15 mph in the blink of an eye.

2) He has experienced more road hazard damage in 8 months of ownership than I would have thought statistically possible. At 4 months the car was already getting a new windshield, due to multiple injuries. My question to him was did he attribute it to the car wanting to drive to close to hazardous vehicles (ie gravel toting dump trucks). He claims no.

The day of the driverless car saddens me. But then, considering how inattentive the average driver is these days, maybe it would be a good thing. I personally still like being engaged with my clutch and my gearbox. I am my HUD.

The LAST thing we need on the road is a bunch of GM drones with wifi hotspots built in. My little E93 spends way too much time surrounded by inattentive drivers in GM produced vehicles to embrace that piece of news.

(There-- the thread is officially E9X relevant!!)
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2013, 07:25 PM
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The problem with 'driverless' controls begins with the on-board control expense, and is amplified logorithmically by support infrastructure expense. Add a dose of liability costs and suddenly cars, or gasoline, cost twice what they do now.

All that still may not be the kiss of death. What will kill driverless cars will be the fact that vehicle separation will be far greater than it is now, not less as proponents claim. Now each car will take up twice the real estate it did with an engaged driver, and there will be no increase in roadbed available. Commutes will be a good time to take a nap. Except that the driver will be required to be in the driver's seat and ready to instantaneously assume control in case of failure.

Aha! Much the same arguments made, horse vs fire breather; DOS vs Apple.

Now, pilot vs autopilot. Organic vs inorganic. Man vs machine.

Hey that last brings us full circle, BMW-wise.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:11 PM
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The key word in Ultimate Driving Machine is "Driving". If you are a passive passenger you aren't a driver.

I don't want to be the cargo in the Ultimate Automated Capsule, no matter how good the onboard entertainment is.

I agree with Kat that most "drivers" these days are more engaged with their hand held electronic devices than with driving their cars.

About two hours ago a lady drove straight into the roundabout I was already in. She was then in the outside lane to my right. That lane has to yield to the inside lane if the inside lane is exiting the roundabout. Not only did she not yield but she continued directly into my path! Luckily I wasn't texting, or doing whatever the heck she was doing, and I turned away from her and hit the brakes. The ABS pulsed and the DSC did it's thing and I stopped less than a foot from her.

She didn't even look at me and then drove straight in front of my car even though she had to mount the curb to do it! I honked in disbelief and so did the two people behind me.

I don't think she even knew what she had done wrong, and sadly will probably do it again the next time she comes to a roundabout. (Roundabouts are fairly new here in Indiana and she is hardly alone in being clueless about them even though the rules are easy and straight forward.)

So the only way I would be for driverless cars is if there were still lanes for us drivers. That way the dumbcoffs that can't, and or don't want to, drive can get the hell out of the way of us drivers.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:15 PM
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The key word in Ultimate Driving Machine is "Driving". If you are a passive passenger you aren't a driver.

I don't want to be the cargo in the Ultimate Automated Capsule, no matter how good the onboard entertainment is.

I agree with Kat that most "drivers" these days are more engaged with their hand held electronic devices than with driving their cars.

About two hours ago a lady drove straight into the roundabout I was already in. She was then in the outside lane to my right. That lane has to yield to the inside lane if the inside lane is exiting the roundabout. Not only did she not yield but she continued directly into my path! Luckily I wasn't texting, or doing whatever the heck she was doing, and I turned away from her and hit the brakes. The ABS pulsed and the DSC did it's thing and I stopped less than a foot from her.

She didn't even look at me and then drove straight in front of my car even though she had to mount the curb to do it! I honked in disbelief and so did the two people behind me.

I don't think she even knew what she had done wrong, and sadly will probably do it again the next time she comes to a roundabout. (Roundabouts are fairly new here in Indiana and she is hardly alone in being clueless about them even though the rules are easy and straight forward.)

So the only way I would be for driverless cars is if there were still lanes for us drivers. That way the dumbcoffs that can't, and or don't want to, drive can get the hell out of the way of us drivers.

And another thing....driverless cars mean no more Mad Cow shenanigans!
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:57 PM
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And another thing....driverless cars mean no more Mad Cow shenanigans!

Huh?
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:33 AM
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Huh?

>AHEM<

With apologies and request for a thousand pardons from the lovely and inestimable Ms. Kat, surely you're aware: They called it Mad Cow Disease 'cause PMS was already taken.

.

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Old 02-27-2013, 05:37 AM
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(Roundabouts are fairly new here in Indiana and she is hardly alone in being clueless about them even though the rules are easy and straight forward.)
Jersey Jug!
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:39 AM
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Jersey Jug!

Few things compare to chuggin' behind a s-l-o-w movin' garbage truck in a Jersey roundabout....
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:52 AM
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Few things compare to chuggin' behind a s-l-o-w movin' garbage truck in a Jersey roundabout....
One of them being the slow music features in the Hallmark Stores...
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:52 AM
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I'm not sure an accident of any kind, even a series of them, would end driverless transportation. After all, aircraft crash dramatically and there's no significant reduction in flying.
I have to differ with Cal on this one. Like the Flying Pinto (Google it), driverless driving's time will never come. Sure there's going to be hype in Popular Mechanics, pushes by special interest groups of every stripe, and desire for technology for technology's sake (like iDrive and MyTouch), but in the end people just aren't going to pay for it. Especially when they see that the king has no clothes.

Ooooooooooh Luddite, wherefore art thou? Thou dwellest in the darkest past, Pegasus Pinto be thy bane.

But if we drive, do we not game? And game we must, desire be thy name. So proceedeth the multitude from Dos to Apple OS.....from wikiup to central heat....verily, from darkness into the light. Let no cost be estopple to thy quest, for upon the morrow it shall recede, and recede again in days hence.

Yea, a new dawn breaketh, Goggle save us and Nissan lead the way!

.

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Old 02-27-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Ooooooooooh Luddite, wherefore art thou? Thou dwellest in the darkest past, Pegasus Pinto be thy bane.

But if we drive, do we not game? And game we must, desire be thy name. So proceedeth the multitude from Dos to Apple OS.....from wikiup to central heat....verily, from the darkness into the light. Let no cost be estopple to thy quest, for upon the morrow it shall recede, and recede again in days hence.

Yea, a new dawn breaketh, Goggle save us and Nissan lead the way!

.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:44 AM
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The day of the driverless car saddens me. But then, considering how inattentive the average driver is these days, maybe it would be a good thing. I personally still like being engaged with my clutch and my gearbox. I am my HUD.
THIS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
The key word in Ultimate Driving Machine is "Driving". If you are a passive passenger you aren't a driver.

I don't want to be the cargo in the Ultimate Automated Capsule, no matter how good the onboard entertainment is.
And this!!! Completely agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Picture it: Walking toward your BMW, you verbally instruct it to take you to destination X by cell phone....as you come near your car lights up & opens your door for you; you get in and as you glide gently away, feeling no bumps / undue motion, you position your VR audio-visual head set....your experience begins.

.
I'm sorry, but I am in favor of nothing beyond the chivalrous act of the car lighting up when I come near and opening my door for me. What it boils down to is that we, as drivers, derive our satisfaction from feeling like we are ultimately in complete control of our Ultimate Driving Machines - and driverless BMWs would just not do it for your run-of-the-mill enthusiast, IMHO. Besides, what would test driving experiences then be like? Would it consist of heading over to the dealership, browsing, and then essentially just hopping into an automatic transport capsule to see which one fares as the closest thing to your living room or entertainment center? The concept, technologically, is a novel idea... but the reality is it would take all the pleasure out of the experience for many, if not most, of us.

Gone would be the days of being genuinely excited to find any little excuse to just get out and go for a drive - or feeling that special connection when you discover something new about your car's capabilities. For me, it's about feeling connected to my car, in every way possible. Isn't that part of the reason why we invest so much in them? If you drive a BMW, it's more than just a mode of transportation... driving a BMW is a lifestyle.
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Last edited by cruisingbimmer; 02-27-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:02 AM
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I'm sorry, but I am in favor of nothing beyond the chivalrous act of the car lighting up when I come near and opening my door for me. What it boils down to is that we, as drivers, derive our satisfaction from feeling like we are ultimately in complete control of our Ultimate Driving Machines - and driverless BMWs would just not do it for your run-of-the-mill enthusiast, IMHO. Besides, what would test driving experiences then be like? Would it consist of heading over to the dealership, browsing, and then essentially just hopping into an automatic transport capsule to see which one fares as the closest thing to your living room or entertainment center? The concept, technologically, is a novel idea... but the reality is it would take all the pleasure out of the experience for many, if not most, of us.

Gone would be the days of being genuinely excited to find any little excuse to just get out and go for a drive - or feeling that special connection when you discover something new about your car's capabilities. For me, it's about feeling connected to my car, in every way possible. Isn't that part of the reason why we invest so much in them? If you drive a BMW, it's more than just a mode of transportation... driving a BMW is a lifestyle.

For your consideration:

VR headset engaged, suddenly you are in the extreme ride of your choice.

Ariel Atom? Bentley Super Sport? Ferrari? Takes yer pic and starts yer ride. Sim motors exactly replicate the experience of piloting your dream car far exceeding any legal limit....the thrill's back OK, and then some!

In the real world, you glide easy, consuming minimum energy and without the possibility of mishap. Traffic is quickly and with new efficiency routed to destination, optimally.

Hey, when you arrive you're notified, but you just *might* want to stay in that Italia a few minutes longer....before you gotta go....
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