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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #26  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
There are plenty of good reasons to go with a 3-series N52, but not on the basis that the engine is bulletproof - FAR from it. I much preferred my previous M54 and the N52 has way too many issues. Leak$, misfires, clicking ... I had them all. Except the dreaded time-bomb; the failure of water pump (1000-1500$).
Really?! Really?! The N52 has had very, very few issues and the vast majority of them have been and are quite minor and occur fairly rarely. On the other hand the M54 has myriad niggling issues that keep the E46 folks working overtime. The M54 motor is also a fine motor, but its support systems are very trouble prone and the failure of its cooling system has lead to a goodly number of total engine failures.

I loved my 2000 328i and my 2004 330i, but I'll take the N52 in my 2006 330i any day of the week.


OP, if you care to spend any time comparing the reliability of the M54 inline six and the N52 inline six check out the number of motor related issues posted in the E46 forum and then come back over here.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 03-01-2013 at 10:18 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:17 PM
aih312 aih312 is offline
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Saintor...I dont know what n52&m54 is to be honest. Like what models and years are they?

tturedraider: Perillo is terrible service wise...You might as well buy from the now defunct Luxury Motors! So what should I look out for if its a loaner?? like if it rides rough or wobbles???

Thanks

A
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  #28  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:26 PM
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M54 and N52 are engine codes. The M54 was the motor is the E46 generation 3er and the N52 is the motor in the E90 generation 328.


Some people are really paranoid about how loaners were driven, but the fact of the matter is exceedingly few people post on here that they bought a loaner and it's turned out to be a bad car. When dealers CPO their retired loaners they bring everything up to CPO standards and then, of course, BMW backs the six year/100k mile warranty.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 02-28-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aih312 View Post
Saintor...I dont know what n52&m54 is to be honest. Like what models and years are they?

tturedraider: Perillo is terrible service wise...You might as well buy from the now defunct Luxury Motors! So what should I look out for if its a loaner?? like if it rides rough or wobbles???

Thanks

A
The N52 is the NA I6 in the E9X in North America, all years. 2007+ were improved. There was also a N51 in a few states (regulations...), Europe got the direct injection N53, not us.

I have a 2007 N52. All exhaust valves were changed, the valve cover was changed at my expense (1000$), all ignition coils are failing one after the other, and an O2 sensor was also changed. All before 70000 miles.

That's not my idea of "bulletproof".
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  #30  
Old 02-28-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
The N52 is the NA I6 in the E9X in North America, all years. 2007+ were improved. There was also a N51 in a few states (regulations...), Europe got the direct injection N53, not us.

I have a 2007 N52. All exhaust valves were changed, the valve cover was changed at my expense (1000$), all ignition coils are failing one after the other, and an O2 sensor was also changed. All before 70000 miles.

That's not my idea of "bulletproof".
OK. Well that's your sample of one. My sample of one has 85,000 miles on it and has had one ignition coil replaced.
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  #31  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:20 PM
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Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
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I had an Acura TSX for five years. Despite the vaunted reliability of Honda products, it was one of the least reliable vehicles I ever owned. Should I then conclude that Honda makes unreliable cars (which we all know is not true)?

With reliability, I always try to focus on data rather than one person's anecdotal experience. According to Consumer Reports, the N52 has been quite reliable with a very low base rate of problems fleet-wide.


BTW, this is NOT a shot at Saintor. I know he is being accurate about his own experience, and I think the OP would want that info.

P.S. My 2009 has 60,000 miles and has been solid as a rock.
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:28 PM
aih312 aih312 is offline
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I had an TSX 2010 and was hit by a drunk driver. I didnt have any issues with it at all.....I once got 541 miles out of a tank from Montreal...Thats the only thing I remember good about it, otherwise just okay..nothing super, but it was a safe bet for me at the time I agree that rock solid data is alway useful. However being on these forums really help me get a better understanding of people experience good and bad...I appreciate every ones opinion.
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  #33  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by aih312 View Post
Hi,

So I have a 2012 A4 Quattro...In short I hate it....all of it. From the crappy service from Audi to getting 225 miles per tank at best. Not to mention burning oil like a crack head. Sure i have been to Audi like 10 times in a year and half of ownership. I am seriously considering trading it in on a 2010 BMW 328i RWD w 12K miles on CPO.

Has anyone had any similar experience??? Audi-BMW?? In addition can someone elaborate on the reliability of the 6cyl engine on 3 series? I heard its bullet proof. ANY supporting info would be great!!

Thx

A
aih,

Here is a datapoint for you:

I have a 328i Cabrio (heavy car - although mine is an MT). I spend most of my miles in short hops, with the A/C running 8 months of the year. With those parameters I still average about 280 mi to the tank for my "all city" driving. If I get a chance to get out and run the car things immediately improve. My overall consumption since 11/2010 (when I started tracking it) is 19.3 mpg and my all time low is 15.1 mpg. The car doesn't burn oil and is an absolute joy to drive. I only have a little over 25K on the car and it's 3.5 years old, so maybe not the best example of long term reliablilty, but certainly a good example of 'bad' gas mileage.
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  #34  
Old 03-01-2013, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
With reliability, I always try to focus on data rather than one person's anecdotal experience.
+1. The plural of anecdotal isn't data!
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  #35  
Old 03-01-2013, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by aih312 View Post
Hi,

So I have a 2012 A4 Quattro...In short I hate it....all of it. From the crappy service from Audi to getting 225 miles per tank at best. Not to mention burning oil like a crack head. Sure i have been to Audi like 10 times in a year and half of ownership. I am seriously considering trading it in on a 2010 BMW 328i RWD w 12K miles on CPO.

Has anyone had any similar experience??? Audi-BMW?? In addition can someone elaborate on the reliability of the 6cyl engine on 3 series? I heard its bullet proof. ANY supporting info would be great!!

Thx

A
Your experience is the exact reason I chose a CPO'd 2009 328xi w/37k mi over a CPO'd 2010 A4 w/24k mi.
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  #36  
Old 03-01-2013, 06:06 AM
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BiHoTTo115 BiHoTTo115 is offline
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Actually, there appear to be four systems. The Logic7 from the early years (2006 - 2008, I think) is S677A. The Harman Kardon from the later years (2009 - 2013, it appears) is S688A. Both of these systems are basically the same and may be identical. The Logic7 is a Harman Kardon system, but it was not advertised as such in the early years. Later they began to refer to the system as a Harman Kardon system and dropped the Logic7 moniker.

The system you have is the "Professional" system with the HiFi speakers - S676A. The really crappy system is actually the same radio head unit as your radio just lacking any worthwhile speakers.


Here's a picture of the later HK small speakers. In the early years the Logic7 system didn't have any outward indication it was there. You could only tell by looking at the radio menu to see if the system had equalizer settings, which indicated Logic7.

Is that all clear as mud?
Hold on...so if there ARE triangle speakers at the top near the windows in the corner, the car is equipped with the better radio? Or it isn't...because you stated that the two pictures you posted are cars WITHOUT the good radio, but yet I see the speakers at the top on the doors...yet in 2006-2008 you had to go check if the car had equalizer systems, as opposed to 2009+ where he words "Harmon Kardon" appear in the triangle speakers....

Jeez, haha.

Well, I know my car has the best system at least.


As far as reliability, some cars are just damn lemons, and some are perfectly normal, and will work wonderfully, and even better with proper care. It's just the right car, and the right place, at the right time sometimes, heh.
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  #37  
Old 03-01-2013, 06:20 AM
aih312 aih312 is offline
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Well today is the day to go for test drives....nice and crappy! Wish me luck. Oh by the way...My dad picked up a new 5 series wednesday night for my mom in cashmere silver at the dealership I am going to today. He wanted to look at an A6 and went to Audi in Tinley Park and they told him to go outside in the snow and look at the car and paid no attention to him. He asked if they could pull it into the service area to look at it. The guy walked away... My father is a mild manner physician, he is a very nice guy....this didn't bode well with him as walked out and drove down the street to Orland Park BMW where he got a great deal....I am not sure why in this economy people are allergic to money.
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  #38  
Old 03-01-2013, 06:58 AM
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He asked if they could pull it into the service area to look at it. The guy walked away.
If your father wants to change someones behavior, have him pay a visit to the awful Audi dealer in his new ride and speak to the sales manager about his experience.
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  #39  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by aih312 View Post
Well today is the day to go for test drives....nice and crappy! Wish me luck. Oh by the way...My dad picked up a new 5 series wednesday night for my mom in cashmere silver at the dealership I am going to today. He wanted to look at an A6 and went to Audi in Tinley Park and they told him to go outside in the snow and look at the car and paid no attention to him. He asked if they could pull it into the service area to look at it. The guy walked away... My father is a mild manner physician, he is a very nice guy....this didn't bode well with him as walked out and drove down the street to Orland Park BMW where he got a great deal....I am not sure why in this economy people are allergic to money.
Well, that's not the first Audi dealership story I've heard....if I were your dad and I was pointed to the outside car with snow all over, I'd make sure to ask them how badly they really hate money...or that I wouldn't be coming back here, and neither would anyone I know.
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  #40  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:16 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
OK. Well that's your sample of one. My sample of one has 85,000 miles on it and has had one ignition coil replaced.
And I've owned 2 N52's a 2008 that ran to 40K miles during the lease term and my current 2011 that has 25K miles. Both have been utterly reliable and bulletproof.

It's too bad that Saintor has had a lot of issues but after being here for over 5 years, there are few reports of serious issues with the N52 engine.
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  #41  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:42 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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I have only owned my 2006 325i, with the N52 and 6 speed Manual for about two months, but I have the full service history. It just turned over 80,000 miles and it has had a front brake pad replacements service, a battery, 4 air filters, and 7 oil changes.

It runs like a new car. The N52 is a real gem. It pulls strong from 2000rpm to the 7,000rpm redline and the 6 speed manual is a joy.

Mine is the first year of the N52 (at least in America) and it does make the "ticking" sound at start up. The sound disappears after warm up. I understand that later years of the N52 have modified valve actuators to "solve" this problem. It is only noticeable from outside the car with the hood up, at least on mine, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I LOVE this car.
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  #42  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:47 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Hmmm, just thought about the fact that my car hasn't had the spark plugs replaced at 80,000 (that I know of). Does anyone know the service interval for plugs on these cars?
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  #43  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:54 AM
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Hmmm, just thought about the fact that my car hasn't had the spark plugs replaced at 80,000 (that I know of). Does anyone know the service interval for plugs on these cars?
Some people do it every 50k, some every 100k. Up to you. I would do about 70'ish.
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  #44  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:55 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Just checked and the manual says the car has "Iridium" plugs that have a 100,0000 mile service life.

Sweet!
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:56 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by BiHoTTo115 View Post
Some people do it every 50k, some every 100k. Up to you. I would do about 70'ish.
Thanks for the heads up BiHoTT.

Any idea what they cost?
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  #46  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:56 AM
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Just checked and the manual says the car has "Iridium" plugs that have a 100,0000 mile service life.

Sweet!
They also say that the fluids should be "lifetime". Change before 100K imo.
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2013, 09:13 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by BiHoTTo115 View Post
They also say that the fluids should be "lifetime". Change before 100K imo.
Yeah, I plan on changing all of the fluids (trans, coolant, brake fluid, clutch fluid, differential) at or before 100k. Cheap insurance really.
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:22 AM
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BiHoTTo115 BiHoTTo115 is offline
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Thanks for the heads up BiHoTT.

Any idea what they cost?
Depends which brand you go with. NKG's are typically around $9.60 a plug, and Bosch's can be had for about $7.50 per. You'll need a longer arm to reach the back of the engine for the last plug, can be tricky to get to, but nothing overly crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BashedBarrique
Yeah, I plan on changing all of the fluids (trans, coolant, brake fluid, clutch fluid, differential) at or before 100k. Cheap insurance really.
I'd go to a solid independent that works strictly on BMW's and has all the necessary equipment (look in your area). Depending on how your transmission currently shifts, and how long you plan on keeping the car, OR if the fluid on the transmission has already been changed once, I would skip it all together. If everything seems fine, don't touch it. You can stir up the gunk in there really easy when doing a change and it can cause unnecessary problems. Then again, I'm just talking out loud here. Loads of people change their transmission fluids and see no issues, but be cautious...
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Last edited by BiHoTTo115; 03-01-2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Mention of tool for spark plugs
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:47 AM
BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Originally Posted by BiHoTTo115 View Post
Depends which brand you go with. NKG's are typically around $9.60 a plug, and Bosch's can be had for about $7.50 per. You'll need a longer arm to reach the back of the engine for the last plug, can be tricky to get to, but nothing overly crazy.



I'd go to a solid independent that works strictly on BMW's and has all the necessary equipment (look in your area). Depending on how your transmission currently shifts, and how long you plan on keeping the car, OR if the fluid on the transmission has already been changed once, I would skip it all together. If everything seems fine, don't touch it. You can stir up the gunk in there really easy when doing a change and it can cause unnecessary problems. Then again, I'm just talking out loud here. Loads of people change their transmission fluids and see no issues, but be cautious...
Will do.

Also, off topic but, how smooth is the VANOS transition from lower to higher revs supposed to be? My car has a noticeable jump at around 4500-5000 rpm.

Is this normal? Is this the transition to the higher valve lift and duration kicking in or is something else going on?
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
Will do.

Also, off topic but, how smooth is the VANOS transition from lower to higher revs supposed to be? My car has a noticeable jump at around 4500-5000 rpm.

Is this normal? Is this the transition to the higher valve lift and duration kicking in or is something else going on?
Should be smooth all the way up to the red line, are you wide open throttle? There's a kick-down effect when you smash the gas pedal in, could be activating that.
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