Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)

E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:29 AM
The Tick's Avatar
The Tick The Tick is offline
The Annoying One
Location: Wichita, KS
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 112
Mein Auto: E36 325i
E36 Track Car

So I have an E36 325i, and I am going to be building a track car and I was wondering how much better an m3 would be. I am going to replace almost all if not all the suspension components, but the engine in the m3 is a lot more upgrade able. Them again, I could supercharge the 325, but then I have to deal with all the problems of a forced induction engine. I am just wondering if I should turn this into a track car, or sell it and buy an M3. I am just kind of thinking out loud. What are some of your thoughts?
Thanks in advance
Nathan
__________________
Cars
  • 1993 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 230,000 Miles) (Current)
  • 1992 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 280,000 Miles) (Sold)
  • 1986 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 270,000 Miles) (Sold)
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 02-28-2013, 09:32 AM
Gooby's Avatar
Gooby Gooby is offline
Sexy Sax Man / Kebab Lord
Location: Streetz of B'
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,521
Mein Auto: 1995 M3
Power means very little on the track.

I've seen stock (motor wise) E30's pass full blown M3's and Corvettes on the track with the right brakes, tires, suspension and most of all DRIVER. The driver is the biggest factor, in my opinion, for quick lap times.
__________________

Instagram | @randytheus

Last edited by Gooby; 02-28-2013 at 09:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:05 PM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
I say build your 325. Yes, you will be replacing nearly everything on it, and you would need to do the same with any stock M3 as well. Using aftermarket parts, you can very easily build a car that out-handles a stock M3. Then the only factor is that you're down on power a little bit in comparison, but the power offered by a 325 is totally adequate for a beginner. If this will be your first track car, you do NOT need any more power at all. As your skills develop, you can decide to simply spend a few thousand dollars to install a used M3 drivetrain, or you can do forced induction on your current engine. By the way, the S50 doesn't have any tuning advantages relative to your M50. Tuning either engine is not easy or inexpensive - it's just that the S50 starts life with a bit more power on tap. You'll run into the same roadblocks when attempting to tune either engine.

Anyway, if you upgrade the suspension, brakes, bushings, and wheels/tires on your 325, you will have a very potent and reliable track rat.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:42 PM
The Tick's Avatar
The Tick The Tick is offline
The Annoying One
Location: Wichita, KS
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 112
Mein Auto: E36 325i
This will be my first full-blown track car I have owned, but I have been racing my whole life (auto crossing, rally crossing, track days, etc.) in Bimmers, and Audis. I am leaning towards sticking with the 325 and slowly building it into a track car, and once it becomes not very practical, I will buy another car for a daily driver.
Thank you guys so much.
Nathan
__________________
Cars
  • 1993 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 230,000 Miles) (Current)
  • 1992 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 280,000 Miles) (Sold)
  • 1986 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 270,000 Miles) (Sold)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:11 PM
petriej's Avatar
petriej petriej is offline
Cruising 280 Top Down
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,088
Send a message via Skype™ to petriej
Mein Auto: '99 M3 Cab & '05 X5 4.8is
Keep the 325 and upgrade the suspension stuff first.

1) Shocks/struts & springs -> coilovers
2) Wheels & Tires -> R-comp if you want to be street legal still, otherwise get some true track tires. Which tire you want will dictate the wheels, but go for light weight.
3) Brakes -> Big Brake kits, etc. Make sure it will fit with your wheel and tire setup. "Woah before you Go."


Then go learn! The biggest improvement you'll see is in knowing what to do. I would suggest going to the Kansas City BMW CCA chapter, but they're pretty far from you and they don't look all that active. Sorry. Otherwise get some advanced driver training and just go out there.

Then, go power. The 325i can be boosted, so go turbo! This will get you into the big leagues fast, but I'd only suggest you go this route AFTER you learn how to track. Turbo boost in a turn while threshold driving is just plain dangerous, and you might die.
__________________

GGC BMW CCA #443004
Join the BMW CCA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Jared, why don't you just put "It's Giubo" in your sig? Save a lot of typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e36 miguel View Post
this jared guy sounds intimidating lol.
2005 X5 4.8is Le Mans/Black/6spd Steptragic
1999 M3 Cabrio TiAg Metallic/Dove Grey/Black 5 Speed Manual
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 328iC Schwarz II/K/K 5MT SOLD 5/2012
2004 645Ci Mineral Silver Metallic/Black 6MT RIP 04/2011
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:57 PM
The Tick's Avatar
The Tick The Tick is offline
The Annoying One
Location: Wichita, KS
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 112
Mein Auto: E36 325i
Do you guys know how wide of tires will fit on without spacers?
__________________
Cars
  • 1993 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 230,000 Miles) (Current)
  • 1992 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 280,000 Miles) (Sold)
  • 1986 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 270,000 Miles) (Sold)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2013, 02:07 PM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
245/40 on 8.5" wheel with an offset of 40mm is the widest you can go in the E36 without spacers & fender rolling.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2013, 02:11 PM
The Tick's Avatar
The Tick The Tick is offline
The Annoying One
Location: Wichita, KS
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 112
Mein Auto: E36 325i
Ok, thanks. I'll look for some wheels and tires.
__________________
Cars
  • 1993 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 230,000 Miles) (Current)
  • 1992 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 280,000 Miles) (Sold)
  • 1986 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 270,000 Miles) (Sold)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-28-2013, 07:38 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
BMW CCA Member
Location: Communist Republic of Maryland
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,750
Mein Auto: 128i M, M3, 325is M-Tech
Look up Spec3 racing and see if it is in your area. Take part in that program first until you learn the car. Then worry about lightweight wheels, ground control coil overs, etc. Take baby steps so you can really see yourself improve as you upgrade parts on your car.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:42 PM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
I wish we had SpecE36 out here. We started PRO-3, but for some reason there isn't an E36 equivalent on the west coast.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-01-2013, 01:41 AM
hnaz hnaz is offline
BMW CCA Member
Location: Communist Republic of Maryland
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,750
Mein Auto: 128i M, M3, 325is M-Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
I wish we had SpecE36 out here. We started PRO-3, but for some reason there isn't an E36 equivalent on the west coast.
It is a dying class, but very fun.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-01-2013, 08:14 AM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
Dying? With the market value of the E36 in the gutter, it should be growing quickly, not dying. Why do you suspect it is having difficulty?
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-01-2013, 04:57 PM
The Tick's Avatar
The Tick The Tick is offline
The Annoying One
Location: Wichita, KS
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 112
Mein Auto: E36 325i
Spec3 isn't anywhere near Kansas. I will just keep auto crossing until I decide on a class I would like to compete in.
__________________
Cars
  • 1993 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 230,000 Miles) (Current)
  • 1992 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 280,000 Miles) (Sold)
  • 1986 BMW 325i 5-Speed Manual (Approximately 270,000 Miles) (Sold)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-01-2013, 07:02 PM
hnaz hnaz is offline
BMW CCA Member
Location: Communist Republic of Maryland
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,750
Mein Auto: 128i M, M3, 325is M-Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGerman View Post
Dying? With the market value of the E36 in the gutter, it should be growing quickly, not dying. Why do you suspect it is having difficulty?
There were some rule changes recently on what you can do to your car in terms of setup for the track. One of which was that all parts had to be stock! The RSMs were an exception. Same with a cage (obviously). Then Bilsteins with H&R sport shocks were allowed, then disallowed, then allowed again, then disallowed. Drama ensued, a few people left, then people stopped showing up. There would be only 8 cars at a time on the track, then 5, then 7, then 4... I dunno. I haven't been back in the arena in a couple years, so I don't know what all else has gone on. But when I left, it was a dying class unfortunately.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-04-2013, 02:24 PM
N55PR N55PR is offline
Registered User
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: 2011 335i M-sport
Sorry to hijack the thread.....seems you guys are kwnoledgeable and I just bumped into the thread.

I currently drive an 2011 e90, which I have been using to do laps at track time sessions, but I am ruining the paint and the cars is starting to get rattles in the dash area so I am planning on getting a dedicated track car. I am looking at an 1993 325i, the car has been upgraded with cams, M3 shortshift, bilsteins and is supposedly "M3 spec". Owner claims 230 whp. Seems like a good buy at $3k (in PUerto Rico where cars cost more). I have a couple of questions:

Will I be able to fit my current track wheels? Kosei 17x8.5 with 255/40? I will be running -3 camber probably.

Doe the car a brake caliper and larger rotors for the track?

thanks

Antonio
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-04-2013, 02:28 PM
petriej's Avatar
petriej petriej is offline
Cruising 280 Top Down
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,088
Send a message via Skype™ to petriej
Mein Auto: '99 M3 Cab & '05 X5 4.8is
The wheels, yes, but maybe not the tires. 245/40R17's will fit. Which track in PR?
__________________

GGC BMW CCA #443004
Join the BMW CCA!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornhospital View Post
Jared, why don't you just put "It's Giubo" in your sig? Save a lot of typing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e36 miguel View Post
this jared guy sounds intimidating lol.
2005 X5 4.8is Le Mans/Black/6spd Steptragic
1999 M3 Cabrio TiAg Metallic/Dove Grey/Black 5 Speed Manual
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1997 328iC Schwarz II/K/K 5MT SOLD 5/2012
2004 645Ci Mineral Silver Metallic/Black 6MT RIP 04/2011
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-04-2013, 02:29 PM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
There's no way the M50B25 engine can make 230whp with cams and/or other simple bolt-on mods. Keep in mind that even the US M3, which made 240hp stock, only puts about 205hp down to the wheels. For his M50B25 to be putting down 230whp, he'd have to be making somewhere in the ballpark of 265hp at the crank, which definitely isn't going to happen by throwing on a set of cams. So yeah, I call BS on that claim.

Anyway, to fit the Kosei K1s with 255 tires, you'll need a small spacer up front, and a mild fender roll in the rear. I run them with 245/40s all around, and that's as big as you can go without spacers & fender rolling.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback

Last edited by ZeGerman; 03-04-2013 at 02:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-04-2013, 02:54 PM
N55PR N55PR is offline
Registered User
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: 2011 335i M-sport
thanks for the response, good to know I can fit the wheels and tires on the car....saves a bit on the entry cost.

There are 2 tracks in PR, and only one is used actively (Salinas Int. Speedway). Unfortunately it is in poor shape, but it is the only one we have. Luckily it only takes a few cars and enthusiast to have some fun.

Time to start reading up on the e36, maybe in 1 yr I will be racing on the ITS category
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-04-2013, 03:57 PM
N55PR N55PR is offline
Registered User
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: 2011 335i M-sport
not sure if this is standard on 1993 325, but this guy tells me his has an LSD. was this standard at the time? I had to install my own LSD in the 335....
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:05 PM
ZeGerman's Avatar
ZeGerman ZeGerman is offline
Warm Leatherette
Location: Seattle, WA
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,066
Mein Auto: 1998 BMW 328is
Very few had LSD from the factory, but some did, and none of them were "standard". Typically in North America, the only 325s which came with LSD were cars that came equipped with the cold weather package. That said, swapping in an LSD after the fact is a pretty common modification.
__________________

1998 BMW 328is
1966 Pontiac GTO
2007 Subaru Impreza 2.5i 5-door
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
For sale: E30/E36 front sway links
For sale: OEM E36 328 catback
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:28 PM
N55PR N55PR is offline
Registered User
Location: Puerto Rico
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6
Mein Auto: 2011 335i M-sport
thanks, need to check out this car soon.....LSD, cams and shortshift kit seem like a good start for a track toy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
:3


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms