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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 03-03-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
If we are bringing hatchbacks into this, then we have the Focus ST and MazdaSpeed 3 that are performance oriented 4 doors with manuals. Same thing with the Jetta GLI(sedan only)
he requested AWD or RWD in his first post.
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  #27  
Old 03-03-2013, 10:28 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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he requested AWD or RWD in his first post.
Fine...

Not sure if its been discontinued, but there was an Audi A3 quattro 6mt.
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  #28  
Old 03-03-2013, 11:35 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
You are right. I had to go to Edmunds to get a price because the Audi website will not allow you to choose quattro and the 8 speed automatic unless you get prestige trim. This is a huge oversight on their part. It makes people think they can't get the good transmission unless they get the totally loaded up prestige trim for $45,000
Are we talking about the audiusa.com website? The configurator clearly shows all nine options: (premium, premium+, prestige) x ( cvt, quattro manual, quattro 8-speed tip). I am not sure which part of the website you are looking at, but it has never given me the impression that the 8-speed tip was available only with the Prestige trim.
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
All this debate over the price of the new F30, 3 series and whether or not it's a "real BMW" if it's not a 335i or it's not loaded up to over $50k like some guys' cars on this forum is wearing me out. I bought my 3 series because it is the best DRIVING car in my opinion! It is one of the few four door, rear wheel or all wheel drive cars available with a manual transmission in this country.
For the sake of comparison, I'm only including four door, rear or all wheel drive cars available with a manual transmission in the U.S.

BMW 335i manual: $44,000
BMW 328i manual: $37,745
BMW 320i manual: $33,445
Audi A4 manual: $34,300
Cadillac ATS manual: $34,600
Subaru WRX manual: $26,565
Lexus IS250 manual: $34,500
Infiniti G37 manual: $42,855
VW Golf R: $35,600

I don't think there are any other choices. I'll reserve my opinions so my post isn't a mile long. But really, what is better than a BMW out of this group of "driver's cars" for the price???
The best "DRIVING" car is going to be different for everyone. Most owners will not take their cars to the track or drive them to their limits to notice any of the +/- performance characteristics observed in magazine reviews. I have owned a G37, E92 335, and currently an S4. In every day driving, the difference is minimal and you care more about the ride, luxury, and amenities. I rode in my friends Golf TDI and that thing is torquey, sporty, comfortable, with a quick 6MT, and the interior is very German and of high quality. You can't go wrong with any of the above and you just need to know what you like. Many will get the most bang for the buck, but BMW isn't known for that. A WRX will be more raw and the G37 and ATS will probably have better steering feel.

Regarding 328's labeled as not a "real BMW," is like people labeling Cayman / Boxter owners as someone who can't afford a "real Porsche." You are either a hater or someone who drives a more expensive car, and is insecure about themselves, that they have to label anything less to be posers. We'll see how many 320i's will sell once it becomes available but the 328 is labeled as the poser BMW car because many you see on the road are stripped down lease specials. It's a stereotype / perception, but is not always the case. Enjoy your car and stop thinking about what others are saying.

BJ would say though, "perception is reality."
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  #30  
Old 03-03-2013, 11:44 AM
Geekenstein Geekenstein is offline
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Can you get the Lexus IS with a manual? Doesn't seem to be listed on their website.
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  #31  
Old 03-03-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Geekenstein View Post
Can you get the Lexus IS with a manual? Doesn't seem to be listed on their website.
Only the is250, reason being, toyota/lexus/aisin only has one rwd, FR manual transmission, and it can only handle the torque of a small displacement engine. To them, the take rate in the US market is350 (few other markets have this), wasn't enough to support a development of a new manual. If I remember correctly, it is being dropped, next year, just like the G37 is losing its 6MT option.

While on the subject, for AWD, there is always the Acura TL SH-AWD MT, which is only available as a no cost option, on the nearly loaded, "technology," trim (missing only BLIS and ventilated seats). Luckily, it's still a honda MT.
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  #32  
Old 03-03-2013, 02:02 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Beden, you've come a long way since that MG Midget! Do you miss hanging around junk yards scrounging for parts?

I also have fond memories of my 66 MGB, 90 300ZX, 01 740il ........

I wonder what my next BMW will be ...... not feeling so good about the turbos and plan to hang with our 09 328i for a while. The 2002 330i has been a gem and still drives like it did 10 years ago!
I absolutely loved my MG Midget when it was running great with a tune up. I used to regularly visit my favorite junk yard that specialized in European cars. My most notable finds: a set of chromed wire wheels (replaced my painted wire wheels) that came off of a wrecked Triumph and fit my car with spacers; I also got a beautiful three spoke brushed aluminum and wood steering wheel that came off of a wrecked Ferrari; and I found a complete set of Lucas dash gauges to replace the OEM ones that burned in an electrical fire I had while driving to work one day.

When I got the wheels, they referred me to a tire shop in Detroit that specialized in Euro car tires as it was difficult trying to find sizes for my MG. They had a guy working there who was born with a very short right arm with a hand. Aside from being a real friendly person with a great sense of humor, I'll always remember how he was able to grab the tires with ease, and then roll them with his short arm (he was not very tall) from storage area to the mounting equipment. I'm still amazed to this day when I remember him.

It's interesting how many people started out with cars like MGs back in the day and who are still really into cars today.
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Last edited by beden1; 03-03-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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  #33  
Old 03-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I absolutely loved my MG Midget when it was running great with a tune up. I used to regularly visit my favorite junk yard that specialized in European cars. My most notable finds: a set of chromed wire wheels (replaced my painted wire wheels) that came off of a wrecked Triumph and fit my car with spacers; I also got a beautiful three spoke brushed aluminum and wood steering wheel that came off of a wrecked Ferrari; and I found a complete set of Lucas dash gauges to replace the OEM ones that burned in an electrical fire I had while driving to work one day.

When I got the wheels, they referred me to a tire shop in Detroit that specialized in Euro car tires as it was difficult trying to find sizes for my MG. They had a guy working there who was born with a very short right arm with a hand. Aside from being a real friendly person with a great sense of humor, I'll always remember how he was able to grab the tires with ease, and then roll them with his short arm from storage area to the mounting equipment. I'm still amazed to this day when I remember him.

It's interesting how many people started out with cars like MGs back in the day and who are still really into cars today.
I had an Austin Healey Bug Eye Sprite when I first got out of college. It was my project car. My daily driver was a Firebird 400. I later had an Alfa Romeo 1600 Giulietta Spider and an Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring. Later sports cars included a Jaguar XK120 Roadster.


CA
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  #34  
Old 03-03-2013, 02:43 PM
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I had an Austin Healey Bug Eye Sprite when I first got out of college. It was my project car. My daily driver was a Firebird 400. I later had an Alfa Romeo 1600 Giulietta Spider and an Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring. Later sports cars included a Jaguar XK120 Roadster.


CA
My 1967 MG Midget was my first car. I was able to buy it used for $1,250 in 1969 while working during HS in the highest sales volume per square foot supermarket in the US at the time. I was making $4.85 per hour as a produce and dairy clerk, the gas wars in the Detroit area forced prices down to 22 cents per gallon, and I was living large.

My second car was a new 1971 Firebird Formula that I bought after graduating from HS and drove it through college until I replaced it with a new 1975 MGB.

Great days back then. Life was definitely much more simple.
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Last edited by beden1; 03-03-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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  #35  
Old 03-03-2013, 03:01 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Geekenstein View Post
Can you get the Lexus IS with a manual? Doesn't seem to be listed on their website.
Pretty sure its been dropped.
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
My 1967 MG Midget was my first car. I was able to buy it used for $1,250 in 1969 while working during HS in the highest sales volume per square foot supermarket in the US at the time. I was making $4.85 per hour as a produce and dairy clerk, the gas wars in the Detroit area forced prices down to 22 cents per gallon, and I was living large.

My second car was a new 1971 Firebird Formula that I bought after graduating from HS and drove it through college until I replaced it with a new 1975 MGB.

Great days back then. Life was definitely much more simple.


Those were the "Good Old Days!"
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  #37  
Old 03-03-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
It's interesting how many people started out with cars like MGs back in the day and who are still really into cars today.
Yes! and @ captainaudio the Bug Eye Sprite was one of my all time favorites along with the AH 3000.

My Georgia Tech college roommate had a Midget ........ rear flat tire one day ...... he just lifted the car off the ground (he was a big guy) while I knocked the spinner off with a rubber mallet and put the spare on.

Loved the tonneau cover on my MGB .... would unzip the drivers side and tool around in 40 degree weather with the heater blasting!
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  #38  
Old 03-03-2013, 04:34 PM
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The OP's original point is very interesting to me, because that's almost verbatim my short answer to my family's "why do you want a BMW" question.

"Well," I tell them, "there's a very limited number of RWD manual transmission sedans." I have to had 4 doors for family reasons. I only want RWD because I'm worn out driving Japanese FWD cars. And I want a third pedal. The other options I've driven, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, VW, MB, etc., just didn't do it for me. I like Honda/Acura but I can't get over the FWD on the TSX and styling on the TL. Hence, BMW.

It's not just a process of elimination: I love the BMW drive and style. But if I wasn't obsessed with having a MT, it would be a lot more complicated at least.

(As an aside, I also appreciate the various used/CPO suggestions and have almost pulled the trigger on a few since I've been seriously shopping the past few months, but since I don't own multiple cars and tend to hold onto them a long time, paying an extra $5,000/$10,000 is not very much money to make sure I get exactly what I want.)

Last edited by jjcruiser; 03-03-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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  #39  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:02 AM
hans007 hans007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
All this debate over the price of the new F30, 3 series and whether or not it's a "real BMW" if it's not a 335i or it's not loaded up to over $50k like some guys' cars on this forum is wearing me out. I bought my 3 series because it is the best DRIVING car in my opinion! It is one of the few four door, rear wheel or all wheel drive cars available with a manual transmission in this country.
For the sake of comparison, I'm only including four door, rear or all wheel drive cars available with a manual transmission in the U.S.

BMW 335i manual: $44,000
BMW 328i manual: $37,745
BMW 320i manual: $33,445
Audi A4 manual: $34,300
Cadillac ATS manual: $34,600
Subaru WRX manual: $26,565
Lexus IS250 manual: $34,500
Infiniti G37 manual: $42,855
VW Golf R: $35,600

I don't think there are any other choices. I'll reserve my opinions so my post isn't a mile long. But really, what is better than a BMW out of this group of "driver's cars" for the price???
theres a few other manual cars RWD / AWD sedans left that you missed.

M5
5 series
CTS-V
lancer evolution


list is shrinking fast tho

the IS250 also dropped the manual and i bet it stays gone for the 2014 new version. you used to be able to get the mercedes C300 in manual as well , it got dropped at the 2012 model year when the c250 came out. and the panamera dropped the manual recently also but they did make manual panameras before this year. CTS non v just dropped the manual as of this year.
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  #40  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:16 AM
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  #41  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:36 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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While we are hunting unicorns, how about this one ...

It can be FWD, AWD or RWD, it can have 5,4, or 2 doors (sedan, SW or coupe) - don't care. However, it must have MT and be powered by diesel engine.

Good hunting!



Ah, all 4 of them are VW? It might have been easier to buy Levi's in size and cut you desire in Siberia in 1985 than the exact car you want in U.S. today ... Mind you, these cars exist and are sold in huge numbers elsewhere, it's just that the Government limits our choices.

Cr*p, this really DOES sound familiar ...
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  #42  
Old 03-04-2013, 12:00 PM
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cheikh82 cheikh82 is offline
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WRX STI is a great car IMO.
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  #43  
Old 03-04-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cheikh82 View Post
WRX STI is a great car IMO.
I am curious what warrants your opinion that WRX STi is a great car?

P.S. On that note I will add 2013 Ford Fusion SE, 1.6L FWD, 2013 Ford Focus in multiple trims, from S to ST

Last edited by lqaddict; 03-04-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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  #44  
Old 03-04-2013, 01:04 PM
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I am curious what warrants your opinion that WRX STi is a great car?
I have lots of reason but the main ones:
*Small but a roomy interior that is still practical for family duties (during all seasons)
*Good reputation of safety
*Great handling response
*Quick (really quick)
*DCCD system is marvelous.

Lots of other reasons depending on your needs of course. That car is a joy to drive, one downside though if you ask me is that the STi needs to be pushed to really see it's worth.

PS:The fuel economy is not that good either, but I only drive on weekend so it's not too much of a factor for me.

Last edited by cheikh82; 03-04-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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  #45  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:58 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
theres a few other manual cars RWD / AWD sedans left that you missed.
M5
I am quite positive that I read somewhere that the manual will be dropped starting with MY 2014.

Another car missed: Subary Legacy, although I am not sure how sporty it can be considered.
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  #46  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:21 PM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
he requested AWD or RWD in his first post.
True, but I am starting to think ... if the VW CC gets very heavily discounted at the end of the MY run - it was $5+K off MSRP last year - I may just buy a Sport manual and call it a day instead of ordering a A4/328i.
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  #47  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:30 PM
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Please add 535i, 550i & M5 to your list.
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  #48  
Old 03-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Geekenstein Geekenstein is offline
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The options are really limited if you insist on a 4-door with manual and RWD. BMW or Cadillac only, unless you want to spend really big bucks. Dying breed.
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  #49  
Old 03-04-2013, 10:54 PM
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lqaddict lqaddict is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheikh82 View Post
I have lots of reason but the main ones:
*Small but a roomy interior that is still practical for family duties (during all seasons)
*Good reputation of safety
*Great handling response
*Quick (really quick)
*DCCD system is marvelous.

Lots of other reasons depending on your needs of course. That car is a joy to drive, one downside though if you ask me is that the STi needs to be pushed to really see it's worth.

PS:The fuel economy is not that good either, but I only drive on weekend so it's not too much of a factor for me.
The reason I asked was that I was cross shopping a 335i and WRX.
I test drove the Subaru first but felt it was too spartan, the road noise pretty much killed for me.
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  #50  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:18 AM
woodswatchco woodswatchco is offline
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Thanks. I can't believe I forgot the TL. I need to add it to the list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tankton View Post
Only the is250, reason being, toyota/lexus/aisin only has one rwd, FR manual transmission, and it can only handle the torque of a small displacement engine. To them, the take rate in the US market is350 (few other markets have this), wasn't enough to support a development of a new manual. If I remember correctly, it is being dropped, next year, just like the G37 is losing its 6MT option.

While on the subject, for AWD, there is always the Acura TL SH-AWD MT, which is only available as a no cost option, on the nearly loaded, "technology," trim (missing only BLIS and ventilated seats). Luckily, it's still a honda MT.
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