I almost defected yesterday ;-(

Well...almost. BMW NA invited me to go to my dealer (Crevier in Santa Ana, CA) to "explore" an early lease turn-in program...they'll pay the last three months on my lease. I'm currently on a short lease...27 mos.

I met my dear friend...SA, Judy Ray (BMW CCA instructor, and racer) and we test drove the 2013 328i...packed with options. My current car is "bare bones." This one had "heads up display," and "engine Auto Start Stop" as notable options that I've not experienced before.

I was, of course curious about the N20 engine..."noise" and responsiveness. Our demo was a 6-speed manual. BTW, Judy has been instrumental in having Crevier BMW inventory some "manual" tranny cars, as few dealers in SoCal are willing to do this. She has a dedicated customer base of "enthusiasts" from the Pacific area BMW CCA.

Off we went to abandoned industrial parks as Judy "threw the car around" with me in the pass. seat...I was regretting that I didn't bring my helmet (she was my driving instructor in at least one of my BMW CCA driving schools).

I took the driving seat (haven't driven a manual in a while). Shifting was smooth. The car was quite "peppy" v. my in-line 6...of course the HP is higher. The noise level is NOT objectionable at all.

With FOUR driving modes (two more than necessry IMO)...comfort, sport, sport+, and "eco Pro," I thought that I was in "driving choice overload." I would never use all of them.

I was impressed with only ONE new feature: The "heads up" display. Cool!

The "engine auto Start Stop" feature felt weird at a stop light...as I though the engine was "stalling." You get a temporary "panic" feeling. Nevertheless, I quickly learned how to use it. Just keep your feet off the brake. It does seem that this feature can be overriden.

Did I buy the car? I was tempted...spent many hours at the dealership. They only did a $2K "cap reduction" from the MSRP. I walked away...this car had too many options to lure me into a new car although I was quite impressed with it overall.

PS: It had nav...and as I explained to my sales advisor, BMW nav is TOO expensive on a
lease when you can get a Garmin for $380.

Its a nice package. The tech is neat and somewhat distracting. I found the start/stop and the HUD distracting.
That must have been one amazing test drive!

Originally Posted by pointandgo

I was impressed with only ONE new feature: The "heads up" display. Cool!

FYI -- That polarized windshield's what, $2k?

Just thinking about it is cheating...

It's pretty cool you have an enthusiast SA in your area.
I am in a 2013 X3 28i loaner while my car is being serviced.
I am loving the creature comforts it has - backup and side view camera's just to name the most remarkable.
However, the auto start/stop is driving me insane - driving in the city where you go from light to light every few hundred feet I think you will burn more fuel during the startup surge than if you just let your car idle while at the traffic light. However, there is a service bulletin for ASS to remember the last user setting (turn it off, and forget about it), dealers can disable it upon customer's request, but not before the delivery.
Another issue I couldn't get over is how the light the steering felt in anything but Sport/Sport+ modes, which again defaults to comfort mode upon start-up.
BTW, yesterday I saw two F30 335i in a parking garage where I parked, both M-Sports, one Jet black and another Estoreli Blue, and both are manuals! Tell you the truth the F30 look has grown tremendously on me, if in a couple of years BMW introduces an enthusiast version of 335i with hydraulic steering column I am going to be all over it.

Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90

Just thinking about it is cheating...

I think it still qualifies as a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Might be worth it.

Judy Ray has a very interesting biography.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

Well...almost. BMW NA invited me to go to my dealer (Crevier in Santa Ana, CA) to "explore" an early lease turn-in program...they'll pay the last three months on my lease. I'm currently on a short lease...27 mos.

I met my dear friend...SA, Judy Ray (BMW CCA instructor, and racer) and we test drove the 2013 328i...packed with options. My current car is "bare bones." This one had "heads up display," and "engine Auto Start Stop" as notable options that I've not experienced before.

I was, of course curious about the N20 engine..."noise" and responsiveness. Our demo was a 6-speed manual. BTW, Judy has been instrumental in having Crevier BMW inventory some "manual" tranny cars, as few dealers in SoCal are willing to do this. She has a dedicated customer base of "enthusiasts" from the Pacific area BMW CCA.

Off we went to abandoned industrial parks as Judy "threw the car around" with me in the pass. seat...I was regretting that I didn't bring my helmet (she was my driving instructor in at least one of my BMW CCA driving schools).

I took the driving seat (haven't driven a manual in a while). Shifting was smooth. The car was quite "peppy" v. my in-line 6...of course the HP is higher. The noise level is NOT objectionable at all.

With FOUR driving modes (two more than necessry IMO)...comfort, sport, sport+, and "eco Pro," I thought that I was in "driving choice overload." I would never use all of them.

I was impressed with only ONE new feature: The "heads up" display. Cool!

The "engine auto Start Stop" feature felt weird at a stop light...as I though the engine was "stalling." You get a temporary "panic" feeling. Nevertheless, I quickly learned how to use it. Just keep your feet off the brake. It does seem that this feature can be overriden.

Did I buy the car? I was tempted...spent many hours at the dealership. They only did a $2K "cap reduction" from the MSRP. I walked away...this car had too many options to lure me into a new car although I was quite impressed with it overall.

PS: It had nav...and as I explained to my sales advisor, BMW nav is TOO expensive on a
lease when you can get a Garmin for $380.

Does Nav really make a big diff on a lease (I'm asking, because I don't know). My guess is that it is just small bit each month.

Besides, you can never expect any feature of a BMW to be a good deal. Its a personal luxury, not a bang for the buck.

I had a F30 loaner a few weeks back. Overall, I thought it was fantastic. Not crazy about the EPS, thought the interior was busy with a few cheap bits, and that stop-start stuff is ridiculous. But, overall, it was a fantastic ride.

I totally agree with you that the noise and overall NVH issues with the F30 are grossly overstated. I barely noticed engine noise.

OT: I misread the title of this post and thought it read "I almost defecated yesterday." I figured to myself, "Now there is one Bimmer driver who needs more fiber in his diet..."

embrace the seductive power of the dark side

on a MT, the A.S.S. is not annoying at the least... my car is coded to remember the last setting, i just leave it on. its a little disconcerting at first for the car to go completely quiet when stopped.

EPS- not horrible, but would have preferred a good hydraulic rack. i have ZDH so i have the variable sport steering as well as M adaptive suspension. i wish i could leave the steering on the heavy sport setting and switch between suspension modes-- NYC is more comfort mode than sport on the dampers.

Judy Ray is a great Client Advisor. I test drove a 535i with her a few months back and it was a memorable experience. She's definitely my go-to person if I were to do business with Crevier, but unfortunately Crevier isn't known for their willingness to deal on much of anything. Too many "gotta have it, will pay anything" types here in OC for them to deal too much.

That being said I also drove a 328i (and 335i) F30 on a couple different occasions and I walked away....not blown away. I'd definitely skip the Technology Package (aka HUD + NAV). The HUD becomes almost completely worthless if you wear polarized sunglasses like I do, and most of us now have a pretty capable smartphone that can act as a nav when we need it.

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

FYI -- That polarized windshield's what, $2k?

Hmm, F30 folks said it cost $2,100 to replace. Better look into that State Farm '0' deductible policy.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

Hmm, F30 folks said it cost $2,100 to replace. Better look into that State Farm '0' deductible policy.

I have a feeling they wouldn't replace it with the polarized windshield if it needed replacement...

The few times I have driven the F30 as a loaner I have not been lured away at all. Granted, most were stripper 328i. With ZSP and a manual transmission I'd give it a whirl, but I still like my E90 enough to want to hang on to it for the 8-10 years I had planned to keep her around.

I'm hoping for an M3 next time, hence the need to save up for 4-6 more years.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Does Nav really make a big diff on a lease (I'm asking, because I don't know). My guess is that it is just small bit each month.

Besides, you can never expect any feature of a BMW to be a good deal. Its a personal luxury, not a bang for the buck.

I had a F30 loaner a few weeks back. Overall, I thought it was fantastic. Not crazy about the EPS, thought the interior was busy with a few cheap bits, and that stop-start stuff is ridiculous. But, overall, it was a fantastic ride.

I totally agree with you that the noise and overall NVH issues with the F30 are grossly overstated. I barely noticed engine noise.

OT: I misread the title of this post and thought it read "I almost defecated yesterday." I figured to myself, "Now there is one Bimmer driver who needs more fiber in his diet..."

For those of us that rent (three year lease or less), I would say that nav is expensive. If each of my last two cars had nav (only the E92 did), and my next car has it, I'd be into BMW nav by about $6,150. 2013 nav lists for $2,150.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

For those of us that rent (three year lease or less), I would say that nav is expensive. If each of my last two cars had nav (only the E92 did), and my next car has it, I'd be into BMW nav by about $6,150. 2013 nav lists for $2,150.

So, you are saying that Nav adds $2000 to the price of a lease over three years? Are you sure of that? That is the full retail price of navigation.

Granted, navigation (like other electrical gizmos) depreciates real quick. My E91 with iDrive probably has the same value as a similar vehicle without iDrive. Definitely not an investment.

Originally Posted by AK

Judy Ray is a great Client Advisor. I test drove a 535i with her a few months back and it was a memorable experience. She's definitely my go-to person if I were to do business with Crevier, but unfortunately Crevier isn't known for their willingness to deal on much of anything. Too many "gotta have it, will pay anything" types here in OC for them to deal too much.

That being said I also drove a 328i (and 335i) F30 on a couple different occasions and I walked away....not blown away. I'd definitely skip the Technology Package (aka HUD + NAV). The HUD becomes almost completely worthless if you wear polarized sunglasses like I do, and most of us now have a pretty capable smartphone that can act as a nav when we need it.

The technology that I really need is something that will help me find a parking spot at Costco.
Judy and Crevier did step up to the plate on my current car. I was pleased with the deal after more local dealers blew me off. Sometimes it boils down to having the right car and options in inventory also.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

So, you are saying that Nav adds $2000 to the price of a lease over three years? Are you sure of that? That is the full retail price of navigation.

Granted, navigation (like other electrical gizmos) depreciates real quick. My E91 with iDrive probably has the same value as a similar vehicle without iDrive. Definitely not an investment.

No, of course it's part of the total MSRP and subject to any cap reduction negotiated, then I'm paying for everything (finance rate, etc.) except the residual value, so you're corrrect in that regard.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

No, of course it's part of the total MSRP and subject to any cap reduction negotiated, then I'm paying for everything (finance rate, etc.) except the residual value, so you're corrrect in that regard.

My point is that I think Nav would not really add much to the bottom line, maybe a few bucks a month. In fact, if I was leasing, infotainment systems would be high on my list of potential options. When you buy, there is a strong disincentive because you know your system will not be state-of-the-art for long. When you lease, you always have the best and latest and the cost in terms of $ is probably relatively small.

Of course, that assumes that you want and enjoy navigation/iDrive and the like. Since electronic gizmos rarely make sense from a $ perspective, not much point in doing it you not really want it.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

The technology that I really need is something that will help me find a parking spot at Costco.

I saw something on Top Gear UK on BBC America regarding a technology finding a suitable parking space.... It was on a Kia Cee'd (I think it is Kia Forte in the States) that they will use as their reasonably priced car.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

My point is that I think Nav would not really add much to the bottom line, maybe a few bucks a month. In fact, if I was leasing, infotainment systems would be high on my list of potential options. When you buy, there is a strong disincentive because you know your system will not be state-of-the-art for long. When you lease, you always have the best and latest and the cost in terms of $ is probably relatively small.

Of course, that assumes that you want and enjoy navigation/iDrive and the like. Since electronic gizmos rarely make sense from a $ perspective, not much point in doing it you not really want it.

You make very valid points...and I am the one who often joked in here about missing the many enjoyable features of my E92 when I acquired the bare bones E90.

Having said this, I did find BMW's option packages very frustrating...if you want "X" you have to get "Y." For example in 2011 I really needed a rear fold-down seat but I had to get another expensive optiion package. Deal killer. Yesterday I learned that ALL the new 3-series have rear fold-down seats as standard equipment. Go figure.

Originally Posted by pointandgo

You make very valid points...and I am the one who often joked in here about missing the many enjoyable features of my E92 when I acquired the bare bones E90.

Having said this, I did find BMW's option packages very frustrating...if you want "X" you have to get "Y." For example in 2011 I really needed a rear fold-down seat but I had to get another expensive optiion package. Deal killer. Yesterday I learned that ALL the new 3-series have rear fold-down seats as standard equipment. Go figure.

It won't be long when things like backup camera's, and comfort access will be a standard equipment.
I.e. F30 335i finally has the alarm as a standard equipment, it was a what $400 option on E90?

Originally Posted by lqaddict

I saw something on Top Gear UK on BBC America regarding a technology finding a suitable parking space.... It was on a Kia Cee'd (I think it is Kia Forte in the States) that they will use as their reasonably priced car.

I have actually been working on a project that will help find available parking spaces. This technology can not work unless there is some way of determining whether the parking space is occupied or not. We were working with cameras and "pucks" that are buried in the pavement. This information would them have to be sent over the internet to a system that would send the data to navigation systems or smart phone apps. It will be a while before this becomes mainstream.

CA

Originally Posted by pointandgo

You make very valid points...and I am the one who often joked in here about missing the many enjoyable features of my E92 when I acquired the bare bones E90.

Having said this, I did find BMW's option packages very frustrating...if you want "X" you have to get "Y." For example in 2011 I really needed a rear fold-down seat but I had to get another expensive optiion package. Deal killer. Yesterday I learned that ALL the new 3-series have rear fold-down seats as standard equipment. Go figure.

Acura was much worse about that sort of thing, since options were basically tied to trim lines. With my E91, I ordered most things a la carte (it may not be that way for the F30 though, I understand). In the end, I didn't like that because I tend to buy loaded cars and the "all you can eat" model usually winds up saving me money.

Originally Posted by lqaddict

It won't be long when things like backup camera's, and comfort access will be a standard equipment.
I.e. F30 335i finally has the alarm as a standard equipment, it was a what $400 option on E90?

Yes...and I note (BMW NA web site) that the anti theft alarm is still $400.00. My "clown nose" remains dark however.

Aren't backup cameras required in the US (or soon to be required)?

I would not be surprised if CA was standard too (as it is with many other brands).

Originally Posted by pointandgo

Yes...and I note (BMW NA web site) that the anti theft alarm is still $400.00. My "clown nose" remains dark however.

I thought it was standard now on 335i F30.