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Old 03-05-2013, 09:39 AM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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Help me, Freaking out! Came to know car is in an accident after 2 months

Hi,

I bought my 09 335 coupe on Jan 1st. I took that to service today for a heated steering complaint. I complained about a rattling noise from dash sometimes and the service guy called me back and told that the car was wrecked before and the windshield is an after market one along with some parts in front.

The dealer that I bought the car from(NJ) NEVER mentioned this to me nor the carfax reported this. I never want to buy an accident car as in the long run you might get the exact issue I was getting now! The rattling noise like a 15 year old compact car!!! I hate to listen to that sounds in my car, which I dreamt as my dream car.

How should I take this to the dealer or BMW? What can I do now after two months buying the car. I'm just freaking out at my work place!!! Please give me some suggestions.

Thanks,
Ram.
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2013, 09:44 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
I bought my 09 335 coupe on Jan 1st. I took that to service today for a heated steering complaint. I complained about a rattling noise from dash sometimes and the service guy called me back and told that the car was wrecked before and the windshield is an after market one along with some parts in front.

The dealer that I bought the car from(NJ) NEVER mentioned this to me nor the carfax reported this..

Contact whatever consumer agency your state has - they will give you guidance, possibly legal advice. Most states have dispute resolution procedures as well as disclosure laws - inquire as to what applies.

Don't depend on forum legal advice! There's not enough info in the original post to give you much anyway. When you contact government, have copies of all your documentation ready to present.

Post result here!
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:46 AM
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Caveat Emptor.

You just learned two very important lessons:
1. Get a PPI on a used car.
2. Carfax is worthless. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:54 AM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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I live in Kansas City but I bought the car in New Jersey when I went there for Christmas. You rarely find a car for ur taste in CPO, so I bought it there and drove back 17 hours in a day, which I truly enjoyed!!! Now this incident left me sad for buying this car.

Sad story apart, Shall I contact the dealer first before filing a complaint?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:55 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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you didnt notice a rattling in the dash when you test drove the car? Also under disclosure laws I believe the damage must be over a certain percentage of the value of the car, and after a number of years you dont have to disclose it. not sure what it is, I sold a car and they asked me if it had been in an accident, I told them yes they asked how much was the repair and when I told them it was 1000.00 they said it didnt have to be disclosed, so much for disclosure laws

maybe you should call car fax and ask them why it was not reported? See what answer you get from them.

good luck, but I bet the BMW dealer will shrug their shoulders and say what do you want us to do about it we followed the law! its a use car
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:58 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Ram, you need to know the details before going further. There's a possibility that previous damage was caused by hail or who knows what. The rattle under the dash may be independent of previous problems. It happens, don't assume the worst. Was the car a CPO purchase? If so you may have some recourse if worse comes to worse.
Ask your dealer for an itemized list of which parts they think were replaced and whether the replacement parts were BMW supplied. Then get back to us.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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@hondo: no haven't heard any of that noise. I only started listening to it like from a month ago. It's not noticeable if I drive my car with high volumes(which I usually do) but when on low sound or while on phone, it's annoying coz u don't expect a BMW to make that noise like my previous 02 VW which I sold after I bought this

@DSXMachina: yes, I bought the car under CPO. The service manager told me that this car was in a wreck before and the windshield on it was an after market one along with some parts in the front. This noise may not be related but I paid the price of a clean car for an accident car. In first place I never want to buy a car which was in an accident. That's bothering me more than anything!
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:34 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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is the place were your car is now the same place you purchased the car? If the car fax showed no wreck and if the dealer saw the same car fax then its possible they wouldnt know either. you need to check the disclosure laws, if the person that sold it to the Dealer lied I would think you would have to bring a suit against them. Sounds like questions you need to ask a lawyer. but if you go to sell the car the carfax says no accidents
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:46 AM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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No it's different. I'm in Kansas City, I bought the car in New Jersey. The dealer should have done the multiple point inspection for this car to be a CPO. Even though if the previous owner didn't disclose, there is no way they can miss it while inspection!
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:59 AM
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CarFax only reports incidents that get reported to them. There is no federal law that requires a shop to report an incident to CarFax, in fact, I believe an owner can request to specifically have a shop not report an incident. Thus, CarFax is weak sauce, it only knows what it knows.

If the CPO is not supposed to have ever been in a wreck, then the dealer who sold it to you should be responsible for ensuring that is the truth. Some dealers are better than others. Good luck with that. Definite lesson is a PPI from a credible shop is a must on a used car.

I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. Until then...........
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
Hi,

I bought my 09 335 coupe on Jan 1st. I took that to service today for a heated steering complaint. I complained about a rattling noise from dash sometimes and the service guy called me back and told that the car was wrecked before and the windshield is an after market one along with some parts in front.

The dealer that I bought the car from(NJ) NEVER mentioned this to me nor the carfax reported this. I never want to buy an accident car as in the long run you might get the exact issue I was getting now! The rattling noise like a 15 year old compact car!!! I hate to listen to that sounds in my car, which I dreamt as my dream car.

How should I take this to the dealer or BMW? What can I do now after two months buying the car. I'm just freaking out at my work place!!! Please give me some suggestions.
I'm going to say there's likely little you can do. While others have given good advice, especially about disclosure laws, I suspect the dealer knows the law and has stayed within it.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't investigate options but I suspect you don't have many.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:42 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbuzzy View Post
CarFax only reports incidents that get reported to them. There is no federal law that requires a shop to report an incident to CarFax, in fact, I believe an owner can request to specifically have a shop not report an incident. Thus, CarFax is weak sauce, it only knows what it knows.

If the CPO is not supposed to have ever been in a wreck, then the dealer who sold it to you should be responsible for ensuring that is the truth. Some dealers are better than others. Good luck with that. Definite lesson is a PPI from a credible shop is a must on a used car.

I hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction. Until then...........
It's possible the selling dealer is not a BMW dealer and the CPO is a carry over from a previous used sale from a BMW dealer.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:55 PM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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@sunny: I bought it from a bmW dealer in NJ.

My service advisor just now called me and confirmed that both front fenders were repainted, front bumper is repainted, windshield is replaced. So, I'm going to call the dealership tomorrow and ask why wouldn't they disclose this, this is definitely not less than a 1000$ job.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:58 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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well at this point you might want to cut your losses and see if you can get the rattle stopped. try to enjoy the car and move forward, yes it sucks that this happened but sometime the lesson you learned is worth more than what you lost, Really its just a car, drive it, enjoy it and sell it,

I had my car for less than a month when over the holidays I had a guys weekend at my house, got up the next morning and a huge dent in my rear quarter pannel, and this was MY FAMILY, no one remembers who put the dent in the car so my insurance paid for it, Guess what. lesson learned, no more guy weekends at my house!
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:01 PM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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my front wings, or fenders are plastic are yours?

resprays are pretty good now, so wouldnt worry about that,
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:02 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
@sunny: I bought it from a bmW dealer in NJ.

My service advisor just now called me and confirmed that both front fenders were repainted, front bumper is repainted, windshield is replaced. So, I'm going to call the dealership tomorrow and ask why wouldn't they disclose this, this is definitely not less than a 1000$ job.
Did this dealer perform the CPO prior to selling the car to you? Or was the CPO a carry over from a previous used car sale (are you the second owner)?
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:04 PM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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I'm the third owner. The dealer himself was mentioned as second owner in the carfax report.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:07 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
I'm the third owner. The dealer himself was mentioned as second owner in the carfax report.
It's possible the CPO was performed as a result of the second sale and therefore the damage occured afterwards. Can you determine when the car was certified?

Last edited by sunny5280; 03-05-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:12 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Originally Posted by 3ismagic# View Post
Caveat Emptor.
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
My service advisor just now called me and confirmed that both front fenders were repainted, front bumper is repainted, windshield is replaced. So, I'm going to call the dealership tomorrow and ask why wouldn't they disclose this, this is definitely not less than a 1000$ job.
The law is clear and simple: The dealer does not have to disclose an accident history unless (a) the vehicle has a salvage title, (b) an accident resulted in frame damage or (c) you specifically ask if the vehicle was in an accident.

Asking to see a CarFax or similar history report is not the same. Reading it and observing that you see no accidents, and having the dealer agree with you, is not the same. Unless the words "was this car ever in an accident?" escaped your lips (or very similar words to that effect) and the dealer replied "no" or "not that I know of" (and so on), they are in the clear. It may be shoddy behavior from a purely ethical standpoint but it's allowed. Sorry.

You still have a wonderful car that may just need a little TLC to be "perfect"--try to look at it that way and it may bother you a lot less!
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:28 PM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
well at this point you might want to cut your losses and see if you can get the rattle stopped. try to enjoy the car and move forward, yes it sucks that this happened but sometime the lesson you learned is worth more than what you lost, Really its just a car, drive it, enjoy it and sell it,

I had my car for less than a month when over the holidays I had a guys weekend at my house, got up the next morning and a huge dent in my rear quarter pannel, and this was MY FAMILY, no one remembers who put the dent in the car so my insurance paid for it, Guess what. lesson learned, no more guy weekends at my house!
Definitely will agree with you. Lesson learned, experience gained. Nothing I can do about it and I cant get pissed and sell this car immediately for a loss of money. So, I will enjoy the car as I'm now. But whenever i try to sell the car, they will pay the money of an accident car, so the money is lost. So, I have to talk to the dealer about this.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:37 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Exactly.
The law is clear and simple: The dealer does not have to disclose an accident history unless (a) the vehicle has a salvage title, (b) an accident resulted in frame damage or (c) you specifically ask if the vehicle was in an accident.

Asking to see a CarFax or similar history report is not the same. Reading it and observing that you see no accidents, and having the dealer agree with you, is not the same. Unless the words "was this car ever in an accident?" escaped your lips (or very similar words to that effect) and the dealer replied "no" or "not that I know of" (and so on), they are in the clear. It may be shoddy behavior from a purely ethical standpoint but it's allowed. Sorry.

You still have a wonderful car that may just need a little TLC to be "perfect"--try to look at it that way and it may bother you a lot less!
this.

unless you specifically asked, the dealer was under no obligation to disclose. if you specifically asked and they responded no, then you may have a case. otherwise, most used cars are sold as-is

a car that has been in an accident is not disqualified for CPO. as long as the repairs are done to BMW standards, and there is no frame damage, a car involved in an accident can be cpo'ed

when i went shopping with my brother for a used E90, i specifically asked if the car had been in any accidents and requested to see a paint thickness gauging on all panels.
carfax is only mildly useful when it indicates an accident, absence of a record means nothing.

as the other posters have said, your rattle may have nothing to do with the accident. get that resolved and go from there.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:43 PM
Siva Ram Siva Ram is offline
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My service adviser said that they have opened that part and kept some insulating tape to get rid of the rattling noise and now I don't hear it. That's good and now I need to get a hold of the dealer.

I'm sure I asked for if the car has any know issues or been in any incidents. They said no. And again, I was excited that I found the exact car(especially interior of brown) that I was looking for and never thought of taping the conversation. I can say I asked and the dealer can say you never did! I don't know how some one will decided who is lying!
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:50 PM
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3ismagic# 3ismagic# is offline
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Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
well at this point you might want to cut your losses and see if you can get the rattle stopped. try to enjoy the car and move forward, yes it sucks that this happened but sometime the lesson you learned is worth more than what you lost, Really its just a car, drive it, enjoy it and sell it,

I had my car for less than a month when over the holidays I had a guys weekend at my house, got up the next morning and a huge dent in my rear quarter pannel, and this was MY FAMILY, no one remembers who put the dent in the car so my insurance paid for it, Guess what. lesson learned, no more guy weekends at my house!
Geez with family like that who needs shady dealers.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:33 PM
sunny5280 sunny5280 is online now
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Originally Posted by Siva Ram View Post
I'm sure I asked for if the car has any know issues or been in any incidents. They said no. And again, I was excited that I found the exact car(especially interior of brown) that I was looking for and never thought of taping the conversation. I can say I asked and the dealer can say you never did! I don't know how some one will decided who is lying!
I suspect they said "Not to my knowledge" instead of "No". As for deciding who is lying I think the burden of proof would rest on your shoulders as it would be your accusation.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:17 PM
sptt144 sptt144 is offline
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I had a little rear bumper accident when someone backed into me. It was very slow speed (2-5mph) and I was just hit at an angle a little high on the bumper. I was figuring $500.00-$1000.00K based on damage. Turned into BMW and $12,000.00 later it was repaired (to BMW factory specs)!!! They basically tore the entire car apart to make sure the frame was perfectly straight and then put everything back together. Was gone for 5 weeks. So I guess it depends on where you take it but BMW has specific requirements for repairs that restore it to as close to new condition as possible. My fenders also feel plastic and flexible and car was new.
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