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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:56 AM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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BMW performance exhaust E92-- forum consensus?

Hi all,

I have been thoroughly enjoying my '13 328i E92. I was browsing the BMW accessories catalog and found the BMW PE as an interesting item. I have searched this forum for several reviews and watched the youtube videos of the PE. Also, my friend has a 335is and I do enjoy the sound his car make when he takes off (though I know the PE and is exhaust are a bit different). My dealer installed price (including tax, shipping, labor, etc.) is $1223.

I supposed my question boils down to:

1. I realize the performance gains are small. But, I would like to feel *something* for my investment. Can people attest to noticeable gains?

2. If the answer to number 1 is 'NO', am I out of my mind for spending $1200 for a sound effect?

Best,

BT
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:29 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere1130 View Post
Hi all,

I have been thoroughly enjoying my '13 328i E92. I was browsing the BMW accessories catalog and found the BMW PE as an interesting item. I have searched this forum for several reviews and watched the youtube videos of the PE. Also, my friend has a 335is and I do enjoy the sound his car make when he takes off (though I know the PE and is exhaust are a bit different). My dealer installed price (including tax, shipping, labor, etc.) is $1223.

I supposed my question boils down to:

1. I realize the performance gains are small. But, I would like to feel *something* for my investment. Can people attest to noticeable gains?

2. If the answer to number 1 is 'NO', am I out of my mind for spending $1200 for a sound effect?

Best,

BT
1. If you think you feel something it will be due to your wallet being lighter. Performance gains will be virtually undetectable except to those whose minds are easily persuaded that noise and performance are a cause and effect relationship.
2. You are not out of your mind. People spend ten times that for stereo systems. It all depends on what you like and whether being $1200 lighter puts a crimp in your lifestyle or not.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:02 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere1130 View Post
1. I realize the performance gains are small. But, I would like to feel *something* for my investment. Can people attest to noticeable gains?

2. If the answer to number 1 is 'NO', am I out of my mind for spending $1200 for a sound effect?

Perception, they say, is 90% of reality.

Dr. Placebo says: You will feel the difference!

But consider this: For half those $, you can can have real gains with a BMS chip. Modifies exhaust note too, N54....might do the same for yours, but not to the performance of the PE. Tiene dos significados.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:19 AM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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I don't really want to flash my ECU (or other such similar upgrades) while the car is under warranty.

BMW tends to rate their products conservatively, so perhaps those with the PE could chime in? 5hp and 3 lb/ft at 6600 don't appear to nudge the performance scale on paper, but I have seen comments that the torque can be felt at much lower rpms...
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:21 AM
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No Yes last post, placebo
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:25 AM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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Ha! Well, it appears I'm getting the dose of reality I mostly expected.

What about the claims that the PE increases MPG slightly? I realize I might be driving more aggressively to hear the new note, but under identical circumstances can I expect any better cruising fuel economy?
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:06 AM
Phil325i Phil325i is offline
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I bought a PE for one reason and one reason only... the noise! The 6-cyl with an OEM exhaust is just a great sound waiting to get out. Never regretted a dime/penny/cent spent. Best mod I ever did...with the possible exception of my Ohlins suspension.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:11 AM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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The previous comment is the crux of my dilemma. I have yet to read a single person regret the PE purchase. While self-selection bias may explain some of that phenomenon, it appears there is overwhelming support for the addition.

I'm not a mod person. In fact, I'm a somewhat conservative (but young!) attorney. But, from all walks of the BMW community, this mod appears to be universally loved.

If it makes a difference, I redline the car often. It's as if this car compels me to eat up the road in front of me until a light or traffic impedes my acceleration.
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:45 AM
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Hey, I like the sound of my IS exhaust. I even hold the flap open with my JB4....the question is would I spend $1200 to get it if it did not come with the car & the answer is no.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:05 AM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
the question is would I spend $1200 to get it if it did not come with the car & the answer is no.
Some portion of the $7,000 price premium you paid for your IS over the standard 335 was allocated to that exhaust. That delicious sound wasn't a door prize
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:40 AM
Pilgrim Pilgrim is offline
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I'm considering changing the muffler on my wife's 328ix, simply for the sound. Her '94 325i had a much sportier sounding exhaust. Performance is OK as is, so I'm not worried about that.

But for me, spending $1200 for an exhaust when you have a perfectly good one on the car is NUTS. I might spend as much as $400 for a muffler, but even that will take a few months before I'm ready to pull the trigger.

If I could drop a $60 Cherry Bomb glass pack on it, I'd be tempted to do so. Maybe I should check that out - I'll bet the average BMW driver hasn't even heard of them. They sounded wonderful on all the cars I ran in the 60's and 70's. I'll bet a creative muffler shop could make either a Flowmaster or Cherry Bomb work nicely and do the pipe-bending to fit it. Both of them make a number of different configurations in mufflers that sound good.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere1130 View Post
Some portion of the $7,000 price premium you paid for your IS over the standard 335 was allocated to that exhaust. That delicious sound wasn't a door prize
Did not pay a $7K premium. Spread is about $4K at MSRP checking off item for item against the options required on a 335i to match equipment but does not include $4K 313 19” wheels which are not available from the factory on the 335i.

335is $61445 mine

335i $57495 as close as you can get.

335i is short or not available

Extra water radiator
Bigger fan system
7DCT
18/19” 313 wheels
IS Exhaust
Heavy duty engine mounts
Anthracite headliner
Black mirror caps
Tuned Software
Believe it might have different springs, but would not bet my life on it.
Brakes etc. same as 335i
Sun roof delete if you want it
Some additional this & that I can’t remember offhand

$4,000 well spent IMHO your results may differ.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:47 PM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Did not pay a $7K premium. Spread is about $4K at MSRP checking off item for item against the options required on a 335i to match equipment but does not include $4K 313 19" wheels which are not available from the factory on the 335i.

335is $61445 mine

335i $57495 as close as you can get.

335i is short or not available

Extra water radiator
Bigger fan system
7DCT
18/19" 313 wheels
IS Exhaust
Heavy duty engine mounts
Anthracite headliner
Black mirror caps
Tuned Software
Believe it might have different springs, but would not bet my life on it.
Brakes etc. same as 335i
Sun roof delete if you want it
Some additional this & that I can't remember offhand

$4,000 well spent IMHO your results may differ.
My intent wasn't to quibble amount the numbers or deride your choice of vehicle; rather I meant to rebut your assertion that your exhaust "came with the car".

Last edited by beenthere1130; 03-08-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:09 PM
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nathand nathand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere1130 View Post
Hi all,

I have been thoroughly enjoying my '13 328i E92. I was browsing the BMW accessories catalog and found the BMW PE as an interesting item. I have searched this forum for several reviews and watched the youtube videos of the PE. Also, my friend has a 335is and I do enjoy the sound his car make when he takes off (though I know the PE and is exhaust are a bit different). My dealer installed price (including tax, shipping, labor, etc.) is $1223.

I supposed my question boils down to:

1. I realize the performance gains are small. But, I would like to feel *something* for my investment. Can people attest to noticeable gains?

2. If the answer to number 1 is 'NO', am I out of my mind for spending $1200 for a sound effect?

Best,

BT
Performance gains are minimal, as are the MPG gains. I do not regret it at all however. I enjoy driving my car more every day after the install of the PE/PI than before I had these mods. If I had not done this, the car would most likely have been traded in by now. When I do trade my car in someday, it will most likely be a 335i F30 and I will be adding the PE again I like it that much. So that's my $.02, ymmv.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:15 PM
jbyron jbyron is offline
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
If I could drop a $60 Cherry Bomb glass pack on it, I'd be tempted to do so. Maybe I should check that out - I'll bet the average BMW driver hasn't even heard of them. They sounded wonderful on all the cars I ran in the 60's and 70's. I'll bet a creative muffler shop could make either a Flowmaster or Cherry Bomb work nicely and do the pipe-bending to fit it. Both of them make a number of different configurations in mufflers that sound good.
I beg to differ I had a SWEET glasspack on my first car, a '75 Monte Carlo. And on more than one occasion I said that if my previous ride, a '99 540 Sport, ever needed the muffler replaced, I was going to go with glasspacks. I can't help but think that the 4.4L V8 would have sounded kickass through 18 inch 'packs.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by phil325i View Post
i bought a pe for one reason and one reason only... The noise! The 6-cyl with an oem exhaust is just a great sound waiting to get out. Never regretted a dime/penny/cent spent. Best mod i ever did...with the possible exception of my ohlins suspension.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by beenthere1130 View Post
My intent wasn't to quibble amount the numbers or deride your choice of vehicle; rather I meant to rebut your assertion that your exhaust "came with the car".
No problem but came with the car is an important point because of BMW's pricing structure. Actual cost with the car for the exhaust is unknown because its not an option but standalone its $1200 or so.

As an example of how the price floats before & after the car is built a guy was buying a 335is & agonizing over the stock 18" 313 wheels or going 19" 313 for $1K extra as part of the car when it was ordered.

What tipped him to 19"s was if he did 18" which were standard was unhappy with the look then wanted to go to 19" it would have cost him over $5K for the change instead of the $1K option cost.

Think if I has a stock muffler & wanted it louder I would just cut it open & pull the packing out then weld it closed. Thats pretty much what BMW does only they leave some of the packing out on the IS & all of it on the PE. The PE also has a slightly different baffle system inside which is easy to duplicate.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:06 PM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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I suppose I'm just drawn to the "je ne sais quoi" of the PE that every *owner* seems to enjoy. Plenty of people chime in to say it isn't worth it, but I question whether first-hand experience changes the opinion.

Self-serving positive reviews from owners who want to justify their purchase would be a common theme, but having failed to see even one disappointed owner, I'm leaning towards the upgrade. I have yet to see this post, "I bought the PE and am severely disappointed . My car is still an underwhelming boat-- it's just a load boat now."

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Old 03-08-2013, 02:14 PM
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I think the yes & no's pretty much agree it sounds nice. 5BHP at the top end is not going to do much in a race & nothing in normal traffic. Difference seems to be about how much the sound is worth to each of us. I don't think you can go wrong with the sound I would just go a different way than give BMW the 3 series parts tax.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:20 PM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
I think the yes & no's pretty much agree it sounds nice. 5BHP at the top end is not going to do much in a race & nothing in normal traffic. Difference seems to be about how much the sound is worth to each of us. I don't think you can go wrong with the sound I would just go a different way than give BMW the 3 series parts tax.
I'm happy to reach common ground!

I supposed the BMW tax is offset by the preservation of the warranty and discretion that OEM parts excel at. Moreover, I'm inept under the hood. I made my dealer top-up my washer fluid last week so I don't even compare options that require "welding" or even "dirty jeans". Frankly, I wish I was able to understand cars better from an operational standpoint. Instead, my passion comes out in excessive hand-washing in nice weather.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:31 PM
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I understand fully. I am a tinkerer who has built cars from welding the chassis on up to building the engines going back to the 1960's, was good relaxation from my day job. Two of my 3 son-in-laws stop by to have their WW fluid topped up I am trying with some sucess to break my grandson from the habit.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:47 PM
beenthere1130 beenthere1130 is offline
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Good luck with the grandson! I'd be more likely to try coding to mess with the computer than change a tire

I think the resolution will be that my indoor parking garage is in for a symphonic treat.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:11 PM
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Yeah, Any place like that or a tight underpass the car makes music, enjoy
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:07 PM
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I've been toying with this for 2.5 years now, but something alway seems to pop up that delays it. (Translation: other toys get in the way because the PE is in my mind just that, a nicety, but not a necessity). That being said, I think 2013 is the year it's going to happen.

A question for the experts and experienced: Is the PI absolutely essential? When I read the BMW propaganda, it indicates that the PE/PI combination will "boost the performance" of the 328i (MT) nearly into the realm of a 330i. Is the difference between the 328i and the 330i that noticeable?

Bottom line, if one is already throwing $1300 in the direction of a more pleasant exhaust note, is the additional $1K (for the PI) mandatory for full enjoyment or just icing on the cake?
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathand View Post
Performance gains are minimal, as are the MPG gains. I do not regret it at all however. I enjoy driving my car more every day after the install of the PE/PI than before I had these mods. If I had not done this, the car would most likely have been traded in by now. When I do trade my car in someday, it will most likely be a 335i F30 and I will be adding the PE again I like it that much. So that's my $.02, ymmv.
^^^ Here is your answer.

The performance gains do not matter. If they did you would have bought a 335.

The MPG gains do not matter. If they did you would have bought a Prius.

What matters is that you have a massive eargasm every time you hit the throttle. The PE will give you what you need; you will be satisfied.

Enough questions. Enough small talk. Mount that smooth steel tubing and get it on.
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