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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #51  
Old 03-21-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Educate yourself (click): http://www.money-zine.com/Financial-...in-Car-Leases/

"Leasing" or "financing" ... same difference, 'cept leasing is more complicated. Either way, you are using someone else's money to get what you want.

Do the math:

(Adjusted Cost $66,045.00) - (Residual 57% $38,231.00) = $27,814

The $27,814 is the "amount" you "use/finance" over 36 months, so your monthly payment would be $27,814 : 36 = $772.61, IF you could get this car with zero down and 0% financing. Instead, they are telling you that your payment is almost $100 HIGHER per month (am't includes approx $26/mo sales tax). In round numbers, the $75/mo is the "finance cost" of your lease. That works out to a rate of .... ???

What bothers me is the additional $6,300 "security" deposit ... WTF? That money sits in their account for 36 months? Tell them you'll put it into a "secure" account of your own, and use it to make your monthly payments. In addition, car will be insured ... that's security enough, isn't it?

Is it worth it? Can you afford it???

It's one heck of a payment, IMO.
I assume the additional 6300 is MSD that are totally refundable even in the event of a totaled vehicle, by the way the deal is a "suckers deal " you should be at least 2k below the adjusted cap cost which would approx translate in approx 60 month savings in payments.
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:46 AM
old-school old-school is offline
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Originally Posted by ductman View Post
I assume the additional 6300 is MSD that are totally refundable even in the event of a totaled vehicle, by the way the deal is a "suckers deal " you should be at least 2k below the adjusted cap cost which would approx translate in approx 60 month savings in payments.
So lets say then I get the car for an Adjusted Cap Price of 66,231.00 with everything else the same. Would you consider that a good price, or still a "sucker" price? Considering I will be getting 90% of the money I put down back at lease end? I will be taking the car back in about 2 hours. I appreciate your help and education in this matter. It looks like my interest payment must be around 7% but that is with a standard deposit which in the real world you never get back. However in this deal I get 90% back????????
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  #53  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:09 AM
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My friend ... part of your focus is on the wrong variable in the equation ... Yes, purchase price is VERY important, but it is only the beginning ... the amount of money OUT of your pocket, month after month after month after month after month after month after month (36 in total) is what matters, because that is the meat of this deal ...

Don't focus on getting your money BACK, focus instead on KEEPING it.

GLWD
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  #54  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
My friend ... part of your focus is on the wrong variable in the equation ... Yes, purchase price is VERY important, but it is only the beginning ... the amount of money OUT of your pocket, month after month after month after month after month after month after month (36 in total) is what matters, because that is the meat of this deal ...

Don't focus on getting your money BACK, focus instead on KEEPING it.

GLWD
Yep I agree you are exactly right. I am taking the car back today and I am telling him that $882.00 per month on this vehicle is unacceptable and I would be more receptive on a monthly price of around $730.00 with less money down. I am very prepared to walk away, expecially considering the 2014's are almost here and my credit is impeccible!
Thanks again for the wake up call. My wife and I fell in love with this last night. We rode around the city with the panoramic roof open and it was very nice. Rides like a dream and has some power to boot! Oh well such is life.
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  #55  
Old 03-21-2013, 11:47 AM
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... and don't be bashful ..., tell your friend that you want that deal on a comparably equipped 50i!

LOL
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  #56  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:01 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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... and don't be bashful ..., tell your friend that you want that deal on a comparably equipped 50i!

LOL
That is exactly what I will do, will post his highly regrettable reply when I return
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  #57  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:09 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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Okay it looks like I am going to lease this X5 xDrive 35i Sport Activity vehicle and here are the numbers

List Price $71,020.00
Dealer Invoice = 65,823.60
Discount $4,700.00
Actual Lease Price $66,320.00
Residual = 57% $40,481.00

Lease details are as follows:
Cash Down = $9.000.00
Cash due at delivery $9,000.00
15000 Miles per year
Payment per month $665.74

This is the deal, $9000.00 out the door with payments of $665.74 for 36 months including maintenance contract etc etc.
We actually prefer the inline 6 cylinder engine since the gas mileage is better and we will probably put about 12-13K miles on this per year.

So gentlemen, did I negotiate a good deal, or is there room still when I go in tomorrow to dig a little deeper? He also explained the other deal to me and it actually made sense in a way but its too much to type and doesnt matter since I decided not to go that route.

Now hit me with your comments either good or bad! I can take it.

By the way I told him about all I have read about these vehicles having problems with tire wear because of improper alignment so he is having it aligned today for me. He also promised to include that information from the service department on what they found and what they actually did! Sounds fair to me!
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  #58  
Old 03-21-2013, 03:35 PM
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You got a 7% discount from MSRP. Not good, not bad. If the the dealer invoice is truly $65,823.60, then the acquisition price is $500 over ... Somehow I doubt that the $65,823.60 is truly the dealer invoice ... Anyone?

The other thing I noticed: the residual went UP! There's a reason for this. And that reason is to get your payment down.

But this is where the rest of the math eludes me ... How did you get that payment of $665.74??? Does that include the sales tax?

What does the $9,000 down consist of?

Is this an open end lease or a closed-end lease? In an open end-lease, if the residual value is too high, then the customer must make up the difference. Ninety-nine percent of car leases are closed-ended. Never-the less, it is always a good question to ask before you sign any documents. Find out!
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  #59  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
You got a 7% discount from MSRP. Not good, not bad. If the the dealer invoice is truly $65,823.60, then the acquisition price is $500 over ... Somehow I doubt that the $65,823.60 is truly the dealer invoice ... Anyone?

The other thing I noticed: the residual went UP! There's a reason for this. And that reason is to get your payment down.

But this is where the rest of the math eludes me ... How did you get that payment of $665.74??? Does that include the sales tax?

What does the $9,000 down consist of?

Is this an open end lease or a closed-end lease? In an open end-lease, if the residual value is too high, then the customer must make up the difference. Ninety-nine percent of car leases are closed-ended. Never-the less, it is always a good question to ask before you sign any documents. Find out!
Yes that includes the monthly sales tax of $19.39

The $9,000.00 consists of the following:
Up Front Payment $ 655.74
Cap Cost Reduction $7,734.30
Up Front Fees $399.00
Cap Red/Rebate Tax $197.10
Up Front Sales Tax $14.16

Cash due on Lease 9000.00

I will make sure its a CLOSED END LEASE tomorrow!
So with this information how does this deal sound?
Thanks again
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  #60  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by old-school View Post
Yes that includes the monthly sales tax of $19.39

The $9,000.00 consists of the following:
Up Front Payment $ 655.74
Cap Cost Reduction $7,734.30
Up Front Fees $399.00
Cap Red/Rebate Tax $197.10
Up Front Sales Tax $14.16

Cash due on Lease 9000.00

I will make sure its a CLOSED END LEASE tomorrow!
So with this information how does this deal sound?
Thanks again
Forgot to add, I was sitting in his office looking at the data he was inputing into the computer and the Dealer Cost was $65,823.60 and at the bottom of his online worksheet the " Gross on Deal" was $496.00
I think I got this for less than $500.00 for what they paid. Just because of the 2014's getting ready to hit the lots. So good deal or not?
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  #61  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:34 PM
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ductman ductman is offline
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Originally Posted by old-school View Post
Yes that includes the monthly sales tax of $19.39

The $9,000.00 consists of the following:
Up Front Payment $ 655.74
Cap Cost Reduction $7,734.30
Up Front Fees $399.00
Cap Red/Rebate Tax $197.10
Up Front Sales Tax $14.16

Cash due on Lease 9000.00

I will make sure its a CLOSED END LEASE tomorrow!
So with this information how does this deal sound?
Thanks again
Why would you do such a large cap cost reduction, you would be better off doing multiple MSD, if the vehicle is totaled you lose that entire amount of cash, also you mentioned an included maintenance contract, hopefully he didn't try to sell you extended maintenance as it appears that you will be covered under the factory included maintenance for the term of your lease.
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  #62  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:48 PM
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Why would you do such a large cap cost reduction, you would be better off doing multiple MSD, if the vehicle is totaled you lose that entire amount of cash, also you mentioned an included maintenance contract, hopefully he didn't try to sell you extended maintenance as it appears that you will be covered under the factory included maintenance for the term of your lease.
No everything is as it was in the previous lease agreement. Nothing has changed except the amount I pay per month and the residual cost of the vehicle. Did not try and up sell me on anything at all. This is it, nothing more nothing less.
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  #63  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:52 PM
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Old School
Ya see a few more things
and by the way
What im about to tell you , was told to me here on Bimmerfest
***You decide based on some simple criteria what your going to pay for the car****
****you need to have a few different quotes to play off each other****
even guys like Greg poland and other site sponsors are not going to throw there best deal our way just cause we called them. When i bought my car From Greg, i told him what i wanted.
Not him tell me!
When i just purchased my 2012 X5 Msport from Shelly BMW, I told them what i wanted the car for.
If i was you i would email your guy tell him that you found a few other cars fairly close in packages...2013's
and those dealers are willing to sell you the car for invoice or if u want to $500 is more believable.
Can he match it, if not what can he do. dont take it. come and bring us the details and well let you know where u stand "honestly"
If your not afraid of losing this deal you will get a great price, if u are then u wont!
U dont owe this guy at the dealership anything! specially your xtra hard earned money$$$$
Let me know if u can do this
I promise u will be happier! Its clear you want a good deal, and why shouldnt u get one...ur "old School"
My boy
Rob
Hi Rob, According to the new lease agreement I am paying less than $500.00 over invoice for this vehicle. I think that is a pretty good deal. It looks like I have been accommodated as to the monthly payment I wanted and everything else about the deal still applies. Just thought you would get a kick out of knowing you helped me get a much better deal. Yet I think some disagree and I am trying to wrap my head around that one.
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  #64  
Old 03-21-2013, 09:30 PM
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I still don't understand how you got to a payment of $665.74 ....

Can you explain?
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  #65  
Old 03-21-2013, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
I still don't understand how you got to a payment of $665.74 ....

Can you explain?
What numbers do you need?
MSRP 71,020.00
Total MSRP MINUS Discount $4,700.00 = $66,320.00
Downpayment of 9,299.00
Adj Cap Cost = $58,410.00
Base Payment 36 months = 646.35
Monthly Sales Tax = $19.39
Monthly Payment = 665.74

Up Front Payments ( 1 ) of $665.44
Security Deposit $ 0.00
Cap Cost Reduction $7,910.00
Up Front Fees $472.00
Cap Red/Rebate Tax $237.20
Up Front Sales Tax $14.16
Cash Due On Lease $9,299.00
Trade Equity $0.00
Rebate $0.00
Deposit $0.00
Misc $0.00
Customer Cash $9,299.00
Cash Due at Delivery $9,299.00

Payment of 655.44 for 36 months with milage allowance of 15K per year.
Residual is 57% @ 40,481.40
MF Estimate is a little high at 0.00150

Is this what you are looking for? I know I have some room to make this deal a little better by about 2K so I will be working on that tomorrow before I talk to him again. I think I can get a little better deal and I plan on getting it!
Thanks for your input!
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  #66  
Old 03-22-2013, 05:34 AM
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You got a competitive price on the cost of the car: $500 above dealer invoice is good.

However, the rest of the deal appears "good" only on the face of it, because they kept your monthly out of pocket low ... you simply bought down the cost of capital by pre-paying $7,910: that's money out of your pocket, up front.

If you take that amount and divide it into 36 months, it equals about $220 per month ... and if you add that back to your existing monthly payment of $646.35, you are effectively at a payment of $866 per month ... that's the same as where you started! They just shifted the numbers around, to accommodate your request for a lower monthly payment.

Is it a good deal? You be the judge ...
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  #67  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
You got a competitive price on the cost of the car: $500 above dealer invoice is good.

However, the rest of the deal appears "good" only on the face of it, because they kept your monthly out of pocket low ... you simply bought down the cost of capital by pre-paying $7,910: that's money out of your pocket, up front.

If you take that amount and divide it into 36 months, it equals about $220 per month ... and if you add that back to your existing monthly payment of $646.35, you are effectively at a payment of $866 per month ... that's the same as where you started! They just shifted the numbers around, to accommodate your request for a lower monthly payment.

Is it a good deal? You be the judge ...
This is 1000% accurate
Rule # 1 is never tell the dealer what payment u want to end up with
They can and have in this scenario adjusted the numbers to give u what u asked for

I've heard of people putting 9k up on x5 M's to buy the money factor down
But it doesn't seem like that happened here
This deal is a house of cards " pax 5" explained why very well
I would walk away but if ur happy just go get the car
No sense driving urself crazy
If u got the 9k now and are not going to be strapped for it then its a quality problem to have
Njoy that car it's beautiful
Happy that u found a car u like!
Best color by the way
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  #68  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:14 AM
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This is 1000% accurate
Rule # 1 is never tell the dealer what payment u want to end up with
They can and have in this scenario adjusted the numbers to give u what u asked for
This deal is a house of cards " pax 5" explained why very well
I would walk away but if ur happy just go get the car
No sense driving urself crazy
If u got the 9k now and are not going to be strapped for it then its a quality problem to have
Njoy that car it's beautiful
Happy that u found a car u like!
Best color by the way
Thanx!
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  #69  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:36 AM
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Old school,

Another option for you would be to explore owning the car, using BMWFS financing. If you are prepared to put that $9K down anyway and want payments of around $700/mo, ask what the best financing rate (%) and term (#of mo's) they can offer. My guess is that you'd have to go to 60 months (5 yrs) to keep the payment around $700, but that's OK ..., if your tired of it after 36 months and have taken good care of it, you can always sell it for MORE than the $40K residual.

BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU BUY THE CAR AT THE $66,000 OR LOWER PRICE LEVEL!!

This is BMW's current offering:

Qualified customers only. Available at participating BMW centers through BMW Financial Services NA, LLC. Applies only to specific models and only for specific model years. 3.19% APR for 36 months available through April 01, 2013. $29.17 per $1,000. Also available, 3.19% APR for 37-60 months. Loyalty Cash is a $750 credit against the MSRP of the loan or lease on a X5 xDrive35i Premium through April 01, 2013. $750 Loyalty Cash available for returning BMW customers only.

The 3.19% APR is actually more favorable then the 0.00150 Money Factor you quoted!!
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Old school,

Another option for you would be to explore owning the car, using BMWFS financing. If you are prepared to put that $9K down anyway and want payments of around $700/mo, ask what the best financing rate (%) and term (#of mo's) they can offer. My guess is that you'd have to go to 60 months (5 yrs) to keep the payment around $700, but that's OK ..., if your tired of it after 36 months and have taken good care of it, you can always sell it for MORE than the $40K residual.

BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU BUY THE CAR AT THE $66,000 OR LOWER PRICE LEVEL!!

This is BMW's current offering:

Qualified customers only. Available at participating BMW centers through BMW Financial Services NA, LLC. Applies only to specific models and only for specific model years. 3.19% APR for 36 months available through April 01, 2013. $29.17 per $1,000. Also available, 3.19% APR for 37-60 months. Loyalty Cash is a $750 credit against the MSRP of the loan or lease on a X5 xDrive35i Premium through April 01, 2013. $750 Loyalty Cash available for returning BMW customers only.

The 3.19% APR is actually more favorable then the 0.00150 Money Factor you quoted!!
this guy "old school" seems like a great guy
he kinda takes direction well. i think if we told him to go in to the dealership in a bear costume and dance in the lobby until dusk he would, hes also got a great sence of humor.
i hope hes reading this as hes going down there and his friend doesn't give him another scenario that isnt a better deal, just looks like one from a distance.
ps How great is this particular dealer, there games of manipulation and confusion are comical to a experienced buyer and charming to a novice one!

Old school is probably a multi millionaire and doesnt even care, but is just in this for the thrill and art of getting a good deal ...Ha
or winds up getting a better deal on this car then all of us got on ours...

that would be funny if it were true
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  #71  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:04 AM
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I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt ... he's from North Carolina ... so is my wife ...!

One of these days I might fly passed him on I-40, in my 4.8i, visiting my in-laws ...
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:08 AM
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I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt ... he's from North Carolina ... so is my wife ...!

One of these days I might fly passed him on I-40, in my 4.8i, visiting my in-laws ...
Was that in laws comment for me?
Lol

And no doubt he's for real! Nc state baby
" jimmy V lives on"
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  #73  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:17 AM
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Was that in laws comment for me?
...Uhh???
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  #74  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:38 AM
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...Uhh???
I thought u were making reference to a previous post, when we had a blowout last week between me and some of the guys. It's all cleared up now, verdict " I win" lol

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=665431&page=2
Take a look starts at post #50
It will help us pass time till we here back from "old school "
Ha
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 5seriesHB View Post
this guy "old school" seems like a great guy
he kinda takes direction well. i think if we told him to go in to the dealership in a bear costume and dance in the lobby until dusk he would, hes also got a great sence of humor.
i hope hes reading this as hes going down there and his friend doesn't give him another scenario that isnt a better deal, just looks like one from a distance.
ps How great is this particular dealer, there games of manipulation and confusion are comical to a experienced buyer and charming to a novice one!

Old school is probably a multi millionaire and doesnt even care, but is just in this for the thrill and art of getting a good deal ...Ha
or winds up getting a better deal on this car then all of us got on ours...

that would be funny if it were true
Wish I were a multi millionaire but unfortunately I "aint"! I am just trying to gain some education on how to get the best deal on a leased vehicle as I have only leased once in my life and that wasnt a great experience let me tell ya. As for going there in a gorilla suit and dancing in the lobby, well if I were 30 yeas younger and I thought it would get me more than just an X5 I might just give it a thought, depending on what I had smoked that day.
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