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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #1  
Old 03-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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beamlord beamlord is offline
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Short and painful: engine replacement

it's been a couple of days in a constant state of shock for me so pardon the erratic style.

My f01 drove perfectly and the engine runs fine. No error messages of any sort, and nothing in diagnostics either.
I brought it in merely to replace the whining oil pump (there's a puma case for that at BMW).
Then the SA calls me and informs me that during the installation, they found plastic debris in the oilpan. Lots of small dime-sized plastic pieces lying around.
After he informed BMW Munich and forwarded all the info they answered that "seeing as this many plastic pieces in the oil pan, it's most likely that a replacement engine is needed". It seems like they don't even care to find out or to tell me what exactly is broken?
The SA tells me he has no idea and that they haven't had that many 750's and no engine problems..And when I insist that I want to know what's actually broken he's telling me that "Taking the engine apart and looking for the problem will cost too much and it makes no sense bla bla".
It's almost as if they don't want this to come to surface. The car is over 3 years old and my warranty is now limited to max. 10.000 Euro and the new engine costs 25.000 Euro. The dealer seems to be very eager to push all of that onto the warranty but I know they will never pay more than 10000 (if at all). As I told the dealer he should actually file it as a "Kulanz" (grace warranty in German) since it's an utter shame that a flagship of a bit over 3 years old and well under 60k miles (it's at 52k now), always service only at BMW dealer and perfectly maintained, needs a new engine(!). But the SA is kind of reluctant and it seems that they are pulling time and it pisses me off, especially since I don't know wtf is actually broken.
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2013, 09:37 AM
BaranE BaranE is offline
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Wow. So sorry to hear. I doubt that there are too many plastic parts in the oil circuit. You can probably ask them to check all plastic parts.
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2013, 02:41 PM
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azbimmer azbimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by BaranE View Post
Wow. So sorry to hear. I doubt that there are too many plastic parts in the oil circuit. You can probably ask them to check all plastic parts.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Confirms my belief that one should not own a F01 one day beyond the warranty.

My E46 convertible, on the other hand, hums like new after 7 years. Go figure.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:30 PM
f01driver f01driver is offline
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I was just thinking the other day "where in the heck is beamlord" and now I read this...sorry to hear about your troubles but this is the biggest fear with my 7 once it's off warranty and even with an extended warranty a lot of issues aren't cover. Hopefully everything goes smoothly for you.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:32 PM
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ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azbimmer View Post
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Confirms my belief that one should not own a F01 one day beyond the warranty.

My E46 convertible, on the other hand, hums like new after 7 years. Go figure.
I am feeling the same way, if I buy this after the lease is up, I'd only keep it as long as my mechanical breakdown insurance wears out 7yr/100k, I couldn't see owning one with no warranty.

To the OP
That's the same thing my SA and Service Manager said, that the 750 is a pretty good engine, they don't have anywhere as near as much problems as they did with the E65/66.

That's nuts though that they'd rather replace the engine first without having to try and see what's wrong. Bizarre
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  #6  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:02 PM
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I am sorry to hear this, haven't seen you post for a while and now this!

Hope they will cover everything.
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2013, 04:11 PM
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Sorry to hear about the problem. Hopefully, a new engine will make everything better. One reason why one should never own a 7 Series out of warranty.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:43 PM
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Your SA is not BS'ng you - it truly is more expensive to tear down and diagnosis. If it's not rampant and a one off issue it's simply easier for all involved to replace the engine with a crate motor. Look at it this way, one of e most critical and expensive parts of your car is being replaced at no cost to you....just make sure they pay for the whole thing. Otherwise you deserve a complete diagnosis, so push them hard to simply replace the engine, I think it will benefit you in the end.
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:34 PM
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wjjklj wjjklj is offline
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Sorry to hear that you are having trouble. At 52K though I think I would be happy to get a brand new engine. I'm sure it will work out.
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:00 AM
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Yeah that's how it goes, happily driving around with next to no problems, and then this

Update: yesterday the SA told me BMW takes over exactly half of the cost (part+labor) so around 12000, and my warranty agreed to pay another 2000, which leaves me at around 10 grand to pay out my pocket to get a car with a brand-new engine (with everything like turbos and all the small parts completely new).
It's still pretty painful and I'm going to try to get a written response from BMW headquarters regarding the fact that a 3 year old premium car that's been properly maintained can have a plastic part in it's engine which goes poof just like that
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
Yeah that's how it goes, happily driving around with next to no problems, and then this

Update: yesterday the SA told me BMW takes over exactly half of the cost (part+labor) so around 12000, and my warranty agreed to pay another 2000, which leaves me at around 10 grand to pay out my pocket to get a car with a brand-new engine (with everything like turbos and all the small parts completely new).
It's still pretty painful and I'm going to try to get a written response from BMW headquarters regarding the fact that a 3 year old premium car that's been properly maintained can have a plastic part in it's engine which goes poof just like that
That is terrible - they should be covering the whole thing. i'd make a big stink about this, there is just no excuse, this is why people would leave the brand.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:44 AM
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hd750Li hd750Li is offline
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My brother-in-law is a BMW tech. He told me during the first 2 months in 2013, his dealership received a total of 6 cases of F02's engine broke down like yours. Four cases are 2009 model, and the other two are 2010. They called that a "mysterious plastic engine" case. Except one case with unknown circumstance, BMW NA agreed to partially pay for the engine replacement or rebuilt one. One of the owners decided to take his car to an independent BMW shop to examine the engine. The shop is run by a retired BMW tech who is my brother-in-law buddy. The technician didn't even bother to open up the engine. He used an old technique of "following the rattle" by using a long screwdriver..... it turned out the "timing chain tensioner" or something like that broke. The job took about 10 minutes...$180 part and labor. Luckily the cam tensioners weren't damaged otherwise it could have been a much bigger job.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:09 AM
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beamlord beamlord is offline
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Originally Posted by hd750Li View Post
My brother-in-law is a BMW tech. He told me during the first 2 months in 2013, his dealership received a total of 6 cases of F02's engine broke down like yours. Four cases are 2009 model, and the other two are 2010. They called that a "mysterious plastic engine" case. Except one case with unknown circumstance, BMW NA agreed to partially pay for the engine replacement or rebuilt one. One of the owners decided to take his car to an independent BMW shop to examine the engine. The shop is run by a retired BMW tech who is my brother-in-law buddy. The technician didn't even bother to open up the engine. He used an old technique of "following the rattle" by using a long screwdriver..... it turned out the "timing chain tensioner" or something like that broke. The job took about 10 minutes...$180 part and labor. Luckily the cam tensioners weren't damaged otherwise it could have been a much bigger job.
That sounds like it. I also suspect that BMW headquarters very well know about this, which kind of explains how they almost immediately (within a day) agreed to take over the half of the costs, without any investigation at all.
The SA does admit it could be something relatively small that's broken, however he mentioned that BMW Muenchen insists on a complete replacement of the whole engine and all the parts that participate in the oil flow, because "there is no guarantee that more (and smaller) pieces of plastic are still leftover somewhere in the oilflow and could cause problems if not now but anytime later". And I'm afraid he's right.
Simply fixing the (if that's it) timing chain tensioner would not guarantee me a safe engine since only God knows if the debris of the old tensioner are still floating around and only waiting to kill the engine

I will definitely make a big stink out of it, a letter to BMW HQ is being prepared and I will (after showing it to my SA first just to see his reaction) send it over.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:44 AM
jwanes jwanes is online now
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I guess with 52000 miles (83000 Km) the car is outside the manufacturer's warranty. Do you have extended warranty? I am guessing that is why BMW is only going half way. They should cover everything but I guess legally they don't have to cover any of the costs. Or am I missing something?
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:04 AM
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beamlord beamlord is offline
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Originally Posted by jwanes View Post
I guess with 52000 miles (83000 Km) the car is outside the manufacturer's warranty. Do you have extended warranty? I am guessing that is why BMW is only going half way. They should cover everything but I guess legally they don't have to cover any of the costs. Or am I missing something?
Yeah legally they don't have to cover anything. Like I said, my extended warranty sucks balls (I didn't pay attention to details).
But you know, the case itself is very strange. An engine is a closed system and if they design an engine with (some) plastic piece in it which dies before the car even reaches 60k, without me having anything to do with it (the dealer already checked that the engine has never been overrevved, properly maintained,etc. so they can't blame me for anything, heh), the company has to step up with something more than half of the costs.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
BaranE BaranE is offline
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Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
Yeah legally they don't have to cover anything. Like I said, my extended warranty sucks balls (I didn't pay attention to details).
But you know, the case itself is very strange. An engine is a closed system and if they design an engine with (some) plastic piece in it which dies before the car even reaches 60k, without me having anything to do with it (the dealer already checked that the engine has never been overrevved, properly maintained,etc. so they can't blame me for anything, heh), the company has to step up with something more than half of the costs.
Legally they might have to. This is called a hidden defect. A cars engine is supposed to last at least 150k. I suggest you speak to an attorney with consumer law experience.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:41 AM
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So now to the exciting part, the shiny brand new engine is delivered and will be installed soon. I'll make more pics during marriage, here are a few for now,
the old engine taken out, and the new one waiting to be installed.












At least I get a "BANG" for my buck
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Last edited by beamlord; 04-26-2013 at 04:20 AM.
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  #18  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:14 PM
sdadept sdadept is offline
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Originally Posted by azbimmer View Post
Sorry to hear about your trouble. Confirms my belief that one should not own a F01 one day beyond the warranty.
Amen to that. I refuse to own a bmw out of warranty. They are great cars, but its expensive as hell to maintain out of warranty.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:43 PM
AdamG13 AdamG13 is offline
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Thanks for those pics. We sure have some engine under our hoods.
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  #20  
Old 03-23-2013, 02:49 PM
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That's bull**** you're only 3k out of warranty, and fully maintained the car and they won't cover it.

I'd definitely look into litigation. It's cheaper for them to foot 10k, and ensure you're a returning customer and spend another 100k than to lose you over something they should have covered anyways.

Good luck man

Chris
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:18 PM
bennyg1 bennyg1 is offline
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I guess this is why in the olden days they used to make engines from metal...

What warranty are they giving on the new motor?
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:11 PM
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Forgot to mention, the dealer did give me another 20% off of the final bill which means in the end I'm paying something around 8000 for an upgrade from an over 50k miles car to a brand new engine worth 25000.
It's not as dramatic and I can afford it so I decided to lay back and enjoy. Also, if I was to shop for a another car for the money (what my car is worth + 8000) there's honestly nothing else I'd want to get.

I learned my lesson though. Still love my car, but very dissapointed with BMW München.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by beamlord View Post
Forgot to mention, the dealer did give me another 20% off of the final bill which means in the end I'm paying something around 8000 for an upgrade from an over 50k miles car to a brand new engine worth 25000.
It's not as dramatic and I can afford it so I decided to lay back and enjoy. Also, if I was to shop for a another car for the money (what my car is worth + 8000) there's honestly nothing else I'd want to get.

I learned my lesson though. Still love my car, but very dissapointed with BMW München.
I'm glad they're helping you out, it's just more the principle of the thing.

An engine shouldn't need to be replaced at 53k miles on a $100k car. And if it does, to ensure loyalty, especially from a company that is very much in the black - should be eating it to make sure they keep you.

It's very unfortunate that BMW isn't stepping up in your case.

Good luck though, at least you'll start back at 0 miles, or does it keep your mileage? Never had that happen before...

Chris
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:32 PM
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Good luck though, at least you'll start back at 0 miles, or does it keep your mileage? Never had that happen before...

Chris
I can't imagine they would roll back the odometer. There is already the wear and tear on the rest of the vehicle that has to be accounted for.
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:36 PM
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i can't imagine they would roll back the odometer. There is already the wear and tear on the rest of the vehicle that has to be accounted for.
+1
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