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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X1 E84 (2011 - current)

X1 E84 (2011 - current)
The new to the US BMW X1 will arrive at BMW dealers in the fall of 2012 as a 2013 model year. Get your X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or get the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i dDrive.

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2013, 11:32 AM
edman edman is offline
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2014 EPA/CARB Certification

I thought it would be good to start a thread about EPA/CARB Certification since there has been some discussion about the issue on the 2014 production number thread.

It seems that there is a split of opinion about whether EPA and CARB Certification has been received with one group thinking that cars would not have been released for transit unless certification was received and another group thinking that the cars will be held at the U.S. port of entry until certification is received.

I think it is the latter, but sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that the former is correct. Today, however, brings bad news on that front.

I have been following the CARB Certification page (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php#6) for updates in an effort to tell what is going on with certification. The reason I am following CARB certification rather than EPA (http://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/) is because the EPA is extremely slow in updating the EPA page. The last time I looked, EPA had not included certification for any 2014 cars (let alone the BMW X1). I have noticed, however, that the CARB certifications are uploaded to the CARB page within one or two business days after the certification is issued by California.

Here is the upshot of this long introduction: CARB updated their 2014 database today (look at the "PC_LDT_MDV_MDEV" column on the CARB page). The update is for 2014 certifications that were issued for certain 2014 GM vehicles and the certification was signed March 11, 2013. If you look at the 2014 certifications, you can see that there are no BMWs that have been certified for 2014. This effectively means that as of March 11, 2013, California has not yet issued CARB certifications for the 2014 BMW X1.

It depresses me to type this, but it is better to reset my expectations.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:05 PM
Ex-One Ex-One is offline
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California...always bringing us down.
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:07 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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Good news is that there are no physical changes for 2014 model year, so it may be just a paperwork issue.....maybe?
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2013, 12:56 PM
coolgreany coolgreany is offline
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Glad I'm picking mine up in Germany then!
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2013, 01:57 PM
eric9610 eric9610 is offline
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This is interesting, I know several friends that ordered MY13 X6M's and the cars they ordered were held at the plant. Since the plant is in the usa this may be the same as held at port of entry since the cars are already here. The X6M's had a lot of problems in the certification process and were delayed by 1 month. I know that now in the USA a Monroney document has to be added to the car before transport, and that would lead me to believe the cars already received the certs since they cant leave the plat without it. One of the keys to the Monroney document is EPA range rating. In any case, the wait is killing me. It sucks we cant track the progress on the myBMW site!!

Last edited by eric9610; 03-13-2013 at 03:42 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:01 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric9610 View Post
This is interesting, I know several friends that ordered MY13 X6M's and the cars they ordered were held at the plant. Since the plant is in the usa this may be the same as held at port of entry since the cars are already here. The X6M's had a lot of problems in the certification process and were delayed by 1 month. I know that now in the USA a Moronie document has to be added to the car before transport, and that would lead me to believe the cars already received the certs since they cant leave the plat without it. One of the keys to the Maronie document is EPA range rating. In any case, the wait is killing me. It sucks we cant track the progress on the myBMW site!!
Isn't the Monroney sticker applied at the point of assembly? So, ours should be OK then....
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:31 PM
flapwell flapwell is offline
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I believe they're put on at the Vehicle Processing Center. Makes sense because the Monroney sticker law is only applicabe to the US.
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:45 PM
eric9610 eric9610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapwell View Post
I believe they're put on at the Vehicle Processing Center. Makes sense because the Monroney sticker law is only applicabe to the US.
I read the Monroney law and it states it must be done at the factory as the car comes off the assembly line. Implying that our cars are already certified. the big hold back may be BMW not releasing the cars till 2013 inventory is almost gone.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:56 PM
Desler Desler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric9610 View Post
I read the Monroney law and it states it must be done at the factory as the car comes off the assembly line. Implying that our cars are already certified. the big hold back may be BMW not releasing the cars till 2013 inventory is almost gone.
Thats why I think the 2014 doesn't yet show up on their website, and we can't track our cars online. They are trying to clear out the 2013's.
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:36 PM
mickkassem mickkassem is offline
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I don't think from a marketing standpoint they would do that. There are not many on the road in the US. Have seen two or three in the last two months. I doubt the 2013 could be distinguished from a 2014 on the road and those of us that have ordered the 2014 would not be in the market for a 2013 anyway. The US government is not efficient and the EPA is certainly not known for it quick response.
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2013, 04:46 PM
flapwell flapwell is offline
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I checked the "Overview of EPA Import Requirements for Vehicles and Engines" and I'm happy to find out that my prior post may have been incorrect. Specifically the Overview says:

Section 1: Permanent Importations of Vehicles and Engines
1.1 U.S. Version Vehicles
1.1.1 What is a U.S. Version Vehicle?

"A U.S. version vehicle is manufactured in conformity with federal emission requirements. The manufacturer attaches a label in the engine compartment that states, in English, that the vehicle conforms to all EPA regulations. A vehicle lacking the EPA emission compliance label is considered non-complying."

And here's the link to the document:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/documents/420b11015.pdf

You will note that we're not talking about a Monroney sticker here, but a lablel that the manufacturer puts on the engine so that it can be imported into the United States. I would guess that the sticker is put on either at the VPC or, more likely, by the dealer. If any dealers are reading this thread, perhps they would tell us?
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  #12  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:45 PM
eric9610 eric9610 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickkassem View Post
I don't think from a marketing standpoint they would do that. There are not many on the road in the US. Have seen two or three in the last two months. I doubt the 2013 could be distinguished from a 2014 on the road and those of us that have ordered the 2014 would not be in the market for a 2013 anyway. The US government is not efficient and the EPA is certainly not known for it quick response.
The average inventory i am seeing in the oc, la, areas of ca is close to 25 cars per dealer, large inventory by bmw standards for a non 3 series. Some dealers have close to 45 cars in stock. Also BMW has to prepare financing terms for 2014 models. (should be the same as 13)

Last edited by eric9610; 03-13-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-13-2013, 05:51 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric9610 View Post
The average inventory i am seeing in the oc, la, areas of ca is close to 25 cars per dealer, large inventory by bmw standards for a non 3 series. Some dealers have close to 45 cars in stock. Also BMW has to prepare financing terms for 2014 models. (should be the same as 13)
Funny, here in snowy NY and PA, average of 3 to 8 X28i per dealer and selling well.....
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2013, 09:23 PM
Tristar1011 Tristar1011 is offline
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Availability

Here in Vegas there are two dealers, one has 2 cars both loaded, the other has like 7 and they do not have all the colors, I have yet to see the Midnight Blue Metallic or Cashmere Silver. Hope they get more soon.
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2013, 08:48 AM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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A little more clarification after some research: VPC in NY actually applies all US related stickers and labels since it is an extension of BMW manufacturing and removes all shipping related labels. The facility has room for up to 4000 vehicles and sold units receive priority in processing and shipping to dealers. They process both BMW and Mini vehicles. BMW/Mini sold 19,000 units in the US in Feb.

Last edited by Stanw; 03-14-2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Update
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:39 AM
Desler Desler is offline
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Question....Are all BMW's that are destined for the east and southeast US offloaded in NY? There are also ports in Georgia. Are they used?
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:56 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desler View Post
Question....Are all BMW's that are destined for the east and southeast US offloaded in NY? There are also ports in Georgia. Are they used?
BMW has 3 centers: California, NY and Georgia. NY serves 12 states, Georgia the southeast, and California the west coast.
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  #18  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:00 AM
flapwell flapwell is offline
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Further clarification. Any car imported into the United States by the original manufacturer in conformance with EPA emmission standards must have associated with it a Certificate of Compliance issued by the EPA. that covers that particular model year. The certificate may be attached to the engine of an individual car or a single certificate may be used to cover a shipment of cars consisting entirely of a particular model year. Note that the certificate must accompany the car WHEN IT IS IMPORTED into the US. Accordingly, any 2014 BMW X1, such as StanW's, that is on its way to the US either has a certificate of compliance already issued and sitting on the boat, or if certification for 2014 models has not yeat been achieived, the boat will sit in the US harbor loaded with cars until the certificate issues. Personally, I think that it's unlikely BMW would send a boatload of cars to the US if it figured they'd be stuck in port for any length of time, if for no other reason than harbor fees are very expensive, but I suppose it's possible.

BTW, the EPA Certificate of Conformity is only tangentially related to the Monroney sticker which is really more of a consumer labeling requirement. It's purpose is to make sure a new car buyer knows the exact details of what s/he is buying and the true MSRP, as well as the EPA mileage estimates, which are not, of course, the same thing as the emission standards covered by the Certificate of Conformity. And as a further twist, the EPA certificates issued for cars covered by the California CARB law must also include that certification.
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  #19  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:58 PM
edman edman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapwell View Post
Further clarification. Any car imported into the United States by the original manufacturer in conformance with EPA emmission standards must have associated with it a Certificate of Compliance issued by the EPA. that covers that particular model year. The certificate may be attached to the engine of an individual car or a single certificate may be used to cover a shipment of cars consisting entirely of a particular model year. Note that the certificate must accompany the car WHEN IT IS IMPORTED into the US. Accordingly, any 2014 BMW X1, such as StanW's, that is on its way to the US either has a certificate of compliance already issued and sitting on the boat, or if certification for 2014 models has not yeat been achieived, the boat will sit in the US harbor loaded with cars until the certificate issues.
What is the source of this information? I think something may be missing. Here is what Title 40 Section 86.1848-01 of the Code of Federal Regulations says:
(e) A manufacturer of new light-duty vehicles, light-duty trucks, and complete heavy-duty vehicles must obtain a certificate of conformity covering such vehicles from the Administrator prior to selling, offering for sale, introducing into commerce, delivering for introduction into commerce, or importing into the United States the new vehicle. Vehicles produced prior to the effective date of a certificate of conformity may also be covered by the certificate, once it is effective, if the following conditions are met:
(1) The vehicles conform in all respects to the vehicles described in the application for the certificate of conformity.
(2) The vehicles are not sold, offered for sale, introduced into commerce, or delivered for introduction into commerce prior to the effective date of the certificate of conformity.
(3) EPA is notified prior to the beginning of production when such production will start, and EPA is provided a full opportunity to inspect and/or test the vehicles during and after their production. EPA must have the opportunity to conduct SEA production line testing as if the vehicles had been produced after the effective date of the certificate.
I read that as saying that nothing can be (i) sold, (ii) offered for sale, (iii) introduced into commerce, (iv) delivered for introduction into commerce or (v) imported into the US until a Certificate of Conformity is issued. Seems clear. No importation until the Certificate of Conformity is issued.

The Certificate of Conformity, however, can cover vehicles produced prior to the effective date of the certificate as long as the vehicle is not (i) sold, (ii) offered for sale, (iii) introduced into commerce, or (iv) delivered for introduction into commerce prior to the effective date of the Certificate of Conformity. Missing from that list? Importation. In other words, a Certificate of Conformity CAN have retroactive effect even if the car is imported prior the effective date of the Certificate of Conformity as long as it is not sold, offered for sale, introduced into commerce or delivered for introduction into commerce. I think this means that a car can be imported into the US prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Conformity. As such, I don't think the cars have to sit on a boat. They can be unloaded into the port of entry until certifications are complete.

This seems to correspond with the following facts:
  • The 2014s are not listed on the BMWUSA website because doing so would be considered an offer for sale or introduction into commerce
  • No one has a confirmed US delivery date for a 2014 (this would not apply to a European delivery date) - please tell me if you have a confirmed 2104 delivery date becuase that would call into question this conclusion
  • My dealer has told me on several occasions that PDC will not assign him a delivery date for my pickup until EPA has issued certifications

Now, I do not think the issue is that the EPA is dragging its feet. I think BMW is - probably because they want to clear out the 2013s before they officially start selling 2014s. When looking through past years' EPA applications and certifications, it appears that the time lag between an application and a certification is very short (a matter of days), which is part of the reason that I think that BMW has not yet applied for EPA certification.

Full disclosure - I am not an EPA lawyer so I may be missing something here and there may be other guidance of which I am unaware that conflicts with the foregoing.
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  #20  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:13 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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But then we would not be able to order a 2014 since its considered a "sold" vehicle and receives a priority one status at the processing center?
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  #21  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:32 PM
eric9610 eric9610 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stanw View Post
But then we would not be able to order a 2014 since its considered a "sold" vehicle and receives a priority one status at the processing center?
A car is not sold until you sign the paperwork and take delivery of the car in the USA. The priority refers to the vehicle is claimed as sold so another dealer can't claim it.
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  #22  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:49 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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So then it's been "offered for sale" ?
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2013, 01:54 PM
coolgreany coolgreany is offline
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Originally Posted by eric9610 View Post
A car is not sold until you sign the paperwork and take delivery of the car in the USA.
.... or take delivery of the car in Europe.
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:05 PM
edman edman is offline
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Big update!

BMW has now received 2014 CARB certifications! Just uploaded to CARB and dated 3/14/13.

4 litre M5 and M6
3 litre 640i, 535i, 740i

This makes me think that more may be coming soon!
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2013, 02:16 PM
Stanw Stanw is offline
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So since we can now track our 2014 on MyBMW site can we bring the speculation to an end?
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