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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:02 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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E34 4.0L V8 CEL Code 1213

95' 540i E34 4.0L V8 CEL Code 1213. (Lambda Control System Bank 2) I haven't yet gotten down to the dirty part of replacing sensors. However, the car does run rough nearly like a heavy misfire on a couple cylinders from the pass. side. Aside from the rough idle, I had my exhaust done up last week and after the exhaust guy finished he said the pass. side cat is hollow, LOL. I assume that someone hacked it off because it was running rich on the pass. side. But if the cat is gone would it cause the o2 sensor to malfunction?
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:07 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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The code guide I was looking at said 89-94. However, this other website for the 95' 540i says "1213: O2 sensor 2 lean/rich c/s".
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:19 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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I will start by replacing the spark plugs and than check for intake manifold leaks. After all the posts I've read with this code and/or similar issues.
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:20 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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To one part of your question, our cars are OBDI, so there are no post-cat O2 sensors. Therefore, a hollow cat will not cause a code. In fact, you can run without cats and it will not throw a code.

Sorry I'm not familiar enough with that code on the 540 to be of further assitance.
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #5  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:38 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Thanks. I wasn't sure if a hollow cat would throw a code with OBD1. Now that that issue is settled, I need to find out why it is running so darn rich on the pass. side. Pulling the plugs should show which cyl. looks the worst as far as the rich conditions.
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  #6  
Old 03-13-2013, 02:59 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfothebeast View Post
Thanks. I wasn't sure if a hollow cat would throw a code with OBD1. Now that that issue is settled, I need to find out why it is running so darn rich on the pass. side. Pulling the plugs should show which cyl. looks the worst as far as the rich conditions.
With my basic understanding of the O2 sensors, if one is bad, the DME will not get good information for mapping the air fuel ratio thus potentially causing the richness on the side of the bad O2 sensor.

My thinking is that you just need to replace the O2 sensor; at least the one on the side that is running rich. It would be a good idea to replace both of them in my opinion.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge about it will chime in soon.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #7  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:38 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Would one o2 sensor cause the car to idle so terribly bad?
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2013, 03:40 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfothebeast View Post
Would one o2 sensor cause the car to idle so terribly bad?
I would think yes.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #9  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:07 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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I cleaned the ICV. Fixed my idle a bit. The car appears to have been badly maintained. So maybe a worn spark plug could be a contributor. But I will order an o2 and see how it goes. I thought the computer would give out a code if an o2 was bad?
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:18 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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I see that I'm the only one who has responded. Again, I'm not all that familiar with the O2 sensor and how it functions. I seem to recall researching the Lambda fault code before just to learn about it, but I wasn't having the problem, so the info didn't really stick.

I recommend you wait for more knowledgeable members to chime in or do some research on the Lambda issue before you buy an O2 sensor. Please don't buy parts just on my recommendation.

C'mon guys. Those of you with more knowledge, please chime in to assist OP.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #11  
Old 03-14-2013, 10:37 PM
germx germx is offline
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you can test your O2 sensors with a voltmeter
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:58 AM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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What are the readings supposed to be? At auto parts store and this guy told me not to use Bosch parts on a BMW. Bosch i thought was the oem o2 sensor? Doesnt sound right.

Sent from my SGH-S959G using Bimmer App
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2013, 08:33 PM
germx germx is offline
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the readings are supposed to fluctuate between 0.2 and 0.8 VDC. See this thread for a video.
Bosch IS OEM for O2 sensor
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2013, 01:25 AM
sposadress sposadress is offline
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jut soso ???
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2013, 08:54 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Do not use bosh on BMW = Crack Head! Best possible Manufacture

Quote:
Originally Posted by markfothebeast View Post
95' 540i E34 4.0L V8 CEL Code 1213. (Lambda Control System Bank 2) I haven't yet gotten down to the dirty part of replacing sensors. However, the car does run rough nearly like a heavy misfire on a couple cylinders from the pass. side. Aside from the rough idle, I had my exhaust done up last week and after the exhaust guy finished he said the pass. side cat is hollow, LOL. I assume that someone hacked it off because it was running rich on the pass. side. But if the cat is gone would it cause the o2 sensor to malfunction?
Are you familiar with open and closed loop?

cold start = closed loop, 02 sensors have zero affect on anything!..


may as well not be installed. If you have issues now its not this, car will be fine..

Open Loop = Car or at least 02 sensor has heated up enough to generate a signal for the DME/ECU (its just a galvanic battery)

this is when it will take affect.. Some cars have ( HEGO's - heated, exhaust , gas oxygen sensors) WE very well may, so this will happen muuuuch quicker " good for epa nazi's!

Try unplugging your 02 and see if it gets better by staying in closed loop..

GoodLuck


**** jdm & **** honda

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-20-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:08 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Thanks for the advice. When the snow melts eventually and the temperature gets up into the 30F range, I'll crawl my ass under there and unplug it! So if I unplug the o2 and the car runs in "closed loop" mode, does that mean the o2 sensor is stuck in "open loop" mode and is faulty? Also, do I unplug both o2 sensors?
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:30 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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difference in potential

Quote:
Originally Posted by markfothebeast View Post
Thanks for the advice. When the snow melts eventually and the temperature gets up into the 30F range, I'll crawl my ass under there and unplug it! So if I unplug the o2 and the car runs in "closed loop" mode, does that mean the o2 sensor is stuck in "open loop" mode and is faulty? Also, do I unplug both o2 sensors?
here we go!


Lambda sensors produce a voltage signal that recognises the amount of unburnt oxygen in the exhaust. An oxygen sensor is essentially a battery that generates its own voltage. When hot (at least 250 C), the zirconium dioxide element in the sensor's tip produces a voltage that varies according to the amount of oxygen in the exhaust compared to the ambient oxygen level in the outside air. The greater the difference, the higher the sensor's output voltage.

Sensor output ranges from 0.2 volts (lean) to 0.8 volts (rich). A perfectly balanced or "stoichiometric" fuel mixture of 14.7 parts of air to 1 part of fuel gives an average reading of around 0.45 volts.

The lambda sensor's output voltage doesn't remain constant, however. It flip-flops back and forth from rich to lean. Every time the voltage reverses itself and goes from high to low or vice versa, it's called a "cross count". A good O2 sensor on a injection system should fluctuate from rich to lean about 1 per second. If the number of cross counts is lower than this, it tells you the O2 sensor is getting sluggish and needs to be replaced.

Most lambda sensors will cycle from rich to lean in about 50 to 100 milliseconds, and from lean to rich in 75 to 150 milliseconds. This is referred to as the "transition time". If the O2 sensor is taking significantly longer to reverse readings, this too is an indication that it is getting sluggish and may need to be replaced.

Observing the sensor's waveform on a scope is a good way to see whether or not it is slowing down with age. If the sensor becomes sluggish, it can create hesitation problems during sudden acceleration.


(2)02 sensors in my experience get lazy.. and dont feel bad changes to the computer quick enough.. or just die.. motor oil, coolant, anything foreign get on the 02 it looses its ability to produce its own voltage.. (difference in potential is no longer achievable)

What you are trying to do is remove a problem from the system, unplug what you do not think works.. look for a change..

idk if the computer will go completely closed loop on both sides with one unplugged or resort to only looking at one side for adjustments.. most likely closed loop.. But if one does not do it unplug them both & a scanner will show you witch mode its in..

good luck 2 you sir!


**** jdm **** honda

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-20-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:08 AM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Oh. I was confused what "Lambda" meant. Now I see that it's that Lambda Sensor = o2 Sensor. Never heard it called that before.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:34 AM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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LAMBDA = A/F ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by markfothebeast View Post
Oh. I was confused what "Lambda" meant. Now I see that it's that Lambda Sensor = o2 Sensor. Never heard it called that before.
Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) known as "stoichiometric ratio" or "Lambda"

aka " ***955; " or capital is "***923;"..

A stoichiometric/Lambda ratio of 1.0 = 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel perfect for regular driving/economy/emissions

i believe max power comes around 12-12.5 to 1 a/f ratio..(my opinion only don't judge)



**** honda

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-20-2013 at 10:40 AM. Reason: the symbols will not show! i give up
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:27 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Thanks for the tips. It's too cold to even go outside to unplug the o2 it but I did take a look at the CCV, atleast which I think is the CCV on the back of the V8 intake manifold. I have never removed one or for that matter have worked on a BMW. It looks like it may be capped off. And it also looks like it has a connection for a hose that may not have been capped off? (Photos shown below)


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  #21  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:29 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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What I really need to go is just pull the manifold off, replace the valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, o2, and possibly the CCV system if it is actually capped off.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:07 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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There's also a whining noise near the firewall which sounds like it is coming from that area.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:29 PM
imae34driver imae34driver is offline
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Bad ccv ? The 2 minute test

OK - CCV IS BAD?

1) cut finger off glove and find a rubber band, or just find a balloon. keep them handy for this. i do

2) remove dip stick, and cover down tube with balloon or substitute..

3)start the car..

RESULTS

if nothing major happens CCV is ok

if balloon inflates your CCV is bad (over any amount of time)

if ballon gets a severe vacuum, CCV is Also not working right


Now before you waist any TIME/MONEY on this try it..


"HOW MUCH MORE FUN IS IT 2 DO THE JOB, WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT PART YOUR REPLACING?

one quick question.. hood open, it sounds like my m60 has a vacuum leak from the driver side manifold yet spraying fluid/smoke test shows nothing.. car runs awesome..

think its normal maybe, does your car do it? not a thread jack just a question to you as another 540 owner


**** honda / fck honda

Last edited by imae34driver; 03-20-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:54 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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I don't know if the CCV is bad, but I would assume so since it appears that someone has put caps over the lines (disconnected it). I don't have enough experience with this vehicle to determine if this is supposed to be capped off or not - But judging from the diagrams I found there is suppose to be a couple vacuum lines running to the CCV. Now, the lower photo shows what looks like another area where a vacuum line is supposed to be connected to the CCV. Am I right or wrong on that?


As for the balloon trick, I put my thumb over the oil dipstick hole and I didn't feel it blowing any air but rather almost sucking in air. However, it appears that the CCV is not even connected. So I don't know what the symptoms would be then.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2013, 02:01 PM
markfothebeast markfothebeast is offline
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Quote:
one quick question.. hood open, it sounds like my m60 has a vacuum leak from the driver side manifold yet spraying fluid/smoke test shows nothing.. car runs awesome..

think its normal maybe, does your car do it? not a thread jack just a question to you as another 540 owner
My car has ALOT of miles and smokes, smells like oil, and as far as I'm concerned it makes all sorts of goofy noises due to the surge in the idle. Once I get it idling smoothly I will be able to determine what sounds right and wrong, LOL. I bought it as a rough runner and knew it was going to need some work. And as an education project.
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