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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:34 PM
Adamo99 Adamo99 is online now
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Originally Posted by woodswatchco View Post
This whole thing is killing me! A luxury car dealer in a fight to the death over $500!!?? A 4% discount??!! I didn't even negotiate and they gave me about 5% off. Aren't some people getting close to 10% discounts? I special ordered a rear wheel drive, 328i, estoril blue, M Sport line, manual transmission, coral red leather, and Harmon Kardon. No other options. No xenons, no sunroof, no premium package, no heated seats, no navigation, no adaptive suspension. None of the "needed" and poipular options. I had a budget that I wanted to stay in and all I cared about was going fast, a good stereo and dynamic colors. I'm well aware of my Superman color combo. I leased and only put down a $1000 deposit. They never tried to tell me I couldn't order an almost totally unsellable car or that I would lose my deposit if I didn't follow through. They said, thank you Mr. Woods. We'll keep you updated on the status of your order. I picked up my car after about a 10 week wait. All was perfect and I was so pleased that I encourged my girlfriend to buy a new X1 from the same salesman a month later. That's how it should be!!!
Yes, but your experience would have been different if you wanted to cancel or change the order for your car- in a colour combination that not very many people would want, and with none of the options that most people do want. Estoril Blue on Coral leather? Really? I may need to see pics of this Sesame Street coloured car.
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  #102  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:56 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by terryn View Post
.... They were unimpressed by my offer to add more options, and refused to order a second car no matter what the options with the same 4% discount I was given on the first car. They offered to order me a second at full MSRP. That would involve me paying a $1862 "penalty" on the car, plus it bumps me over $45K and I would have to pay the NJ Luxury tax (.4% - $186). I said no.

They then came back saying I could order the second car at a 2% discount. This involves me paying a $931 penalty on the second order. I said no.
....

In the end, they put the car in priority 5. They said if another dealer snatched it up in a week or so, I could order another car at the 4% discount rate, with the options I wanted. If not, it looks like I am going to have a fight on my hands to get my deposit back - but even so, it's better than the 2% order discount the were giving me. This gives me time to go to other dealers to see what kind of price I can get from them on the car I am looking for.
My suggestion is not to over analyze the situation, and just get the $500 deposit back as permitted in your state, and move on to the next deal. In our metro area the inventory is so high that informed buyers pay invoice(or less) before incentives, I doubt your area can be that different. 2-4% discount(from MSRP I assume) is not a good deal.
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  #103  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:18 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
He's not being treated rudely, the dealer is in business to make money. Not get stuck with a $45K car on the lot that no one is going to want.

If dealers are just going to give back deposits and "eat" cars that might be tough to sell, what's the point of a "deposit" in a first place?

verb de·pos·it: money given as a pledge or down payment

It all boils down to this: the OP made a mistake, the dealer did not. The OP needs to eat the $500, and obviously he'll be real sharp on similar matters in the future. The dealer is STILL stuck with a sucky car, thanks to the OP. And the penalty for that is $500. No amount of "ordering a few extra options" is going to make up for the dealer sitting on a sucky car that average joe does not want. If you want to pay full MSRP for an M6, I'm sure they can work something out. But in reality, the dealer will probably have to knock $2K+ off the price (even invoice, maybe?) of the abandoned car for someone to take it. Eventually.
BMW is in a customer centric business, selling a luxury product to a finite group of people.

$500 on a $45,000 car that they'll be able to sell anyway is a non-issue, especially since BMW's retention is very strong and this could be a customer for the next 20+ years. The car has XDrive which is the most important variable in this state. The colors are fine too.

He placed his order, woke up first thing the next morning to add a feature, to spend even more money. Somehow the car magically is produced? Too late to make a change? I have to tell you, if it were me and I were in the same situation I could care less about what process or dumb-luck caused my car to be untouchable; I wouldn't accept a car that made me unhappy if only 10 hours went by and I'm being told "too late!". If I ordered a Whopper from Burger King or a set of curtains from Pottery Barn I'd walk away, sure as hell would do it with a $45,000 luxury purchase that takes 8 weeks special order.

My last three BMW's I wasn't even asked to put down a deposit, and it's not like I got cars that were going to be very popular. My E93 was in an obtuse color combination and RWD in New England, my E90 was an M-Sport XDrive automatic, my F30 is a Grey/Saddle Luxury line RWD without the Cold Weather package. In none of those instances was I asked to put money down or had my rationale insured in any way.

I'll defend the BMW brand and the F30 with my dying breath if I have to, great cars. But the dealers? Forget it. Where I live I have two enormous dealerships within 11 miles of each other, can make it door-to-door in under 8 minutes. Gave both dealers the same configuration, same money down, same everything. Dealer 1 tells me my car will be $799 a month. Dealer 2 tells me I'm looking at $599. Somewhere out there is a guy who didn't do the homework, is driving my $599 car and paying $799. I have no idea why there was such a variance, no idea why each dealership is its own fiefdom, but the point is that so long as dealers that represent BMW aren't entirely ethical or completely consistent on the financial side I see no reason why the customers should be either.

If a week or two went by before the change was requested I could see your point. It wasn't even a full day. It was 10 hours. Perhaps the dealer shouldn't have allowed a car to go into production without giving the customer a bit of time to reconsider the options. Maybe smarter dealers would never let that happen because of this very circumstance.

BJ
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Last edited by boltjaM3s; 03-18-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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  #104  
Old 03-19-2013, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


If a week or two went by before the change was requested I could see your point. It wasn't even a full day. It was 10 hours
. Perhaps the dealer shouldn't have allowed a car to go into production without giving the customer a bit of time to reconsider the options. Maybe smarter dealers would never let that happen because of this very circumstance.

BJ
I've had a package from Amazon show up on my doorstep 14 hours after clicking the submit order button. Now we're blaming the speed of modern electronics, so everyone can be "sure", even after he's literally signed a check?

I've got no love for dealers, but for the economic systems to function like we all expect, everyone has to play by the same rules. The OP did not play by the rules, and now is upset that a transaction scenario that has transpired for a thousand years is not going in his favor.
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  #105  
Old 03-19-2013, 04:54 AM
terryn terryn is offline
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Update on this saga.

Vern referred me to his CA at JMK BMW in Springfield. I called him last night and had the most pleasant conversation I had ever had with a car salesman. Mark really new his cars and their features - Thanks Vern. Finally someone I could ask questions to about blue tooth, voice activation, etc. We talked about BMW's our past cars, what we liked about them. It was good. This time I talked about every single feature and whether it was useful to me. There won't be any night after surprises this time, nothing left to cover.

I agreed to what I thought was a good price. I am going in tomorrow to sign the paperwork.

In the end I ended up adding more to my build. I added BMW assist because I play all my music from my iPod, wanted the improved USB for that and the enhanced bluetooth for my iphone. I added premium package for the leather (I was already getting a moonroof) and for the auto-dimming mirrors and the lumbar support. The keyless entry and handsfree trunk opening are those little nice to haves I will probably appreciate everyday. After all the recent BS about buying a car that cannot be sold, I added heated front seats as insurance. I don't expect anything to go wrong with this order, but if it does, the car should be considered more sellable in my area. I know this made no financial sense to increase the cost of the car when I might be losing my first $500 deposit. But it made a great deal of psychological sense. I am treating myself to some extra features to recover from the trauma of the first dealer. A very expensive piece of chocolate cake! But it's working. I am so happy about this car. It is perfect now and I don't feel like I have compromised on anything (except a twinge of regret for not being able to get a MT in the Xdrive. But that is ok, I drove the Autos a lot. They shift so fast that they probably will do a better job than me shifting manually. All I lose is the participation of using the clutch. Sometimes you just have to break old habits and try something new). I will continue to try and get my first deposit back, but it won't keep me up at night if I don't. Somehow all these events put me (eventually) into a car that I like even more.


328i xdrive in Alpine White
Sport Line
Black Leather interior
Gloss black trim with that red stripe you either love or hate
Premium Package
Dynamic Handling Package
Sport Auto Trans with paddles
Moonroof
HK Stereo
Lighting Package
BMW Assist
Heated front seats

To the poster that compared Xenons and Halogens only as a matter of bulb cost, I disagree. That is not what it is about at all for me. For me it is aging eyesight, that is having noticeably more difficult driving at night and dealing with the contrast of oncoming headlights. I think the Xenons will help a great deal. It's about safety, not about cost, or bulb life.

Last edited by terryn; 03-19-2013 at 04:57 AM.
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  #106  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:11 AM
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Congratulations on getting a car that's basically just as you want it. Your original dealer could have had that sale, but in the end their silly little game of "We'll keep the deposit" has lost them that. Also, you won't being buying a car for your wife there, or will you be recommending them to your extended family, friends, coworkers, and neighbors. Nor will you be buying a new car from them 3-5 years from now when you go to replace this one. Their silly little game is hitting them right in the pocketbook.
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  #107  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:11 AM
terryn terryn is offline
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Update on this saga.

I am treating myself to some extra features to recover from the trauma of the first dealer.
Actually the whole car is a reward to myself for surviving a messy and painful 3 year divorce proceeding.

The future is looking brighter now!
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  #108  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:26 AM
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  #109  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:54 AM
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furby076 furby076 is online now
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[QUOTE=SamS;7453771]He's not being treated rudely, the dealer is in business to make money. Not get stuck with a $45K car on the lot that no one is going to want.
[/B]
Don't kid yourself if you think the dealer won't sell that car. They will and when they do, they won't give the OP the $500. It's double dipping on their part. They want the $500, they will sell the car at the highest price possible (not giving a $500 discount for that deposit). By keeping the deposit they are ensuring at least another $500 profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
It all boils down to this: the OP made a mistake, the dealer did not. The OP needs to eat the $500, and obviously he'll be real sharp on similar matters in the future. The dealer is STILL stuck with a sucky car, thanks to the OP. And the penalty for that is $500. No amount of "ordering a few extra options" is going to make up for the dealer sitting on a sucky car that average joe does not want. If you want to pay full MSRP for an M6, I'm sure they can work something out. But in reality, the dealer will probably have to knock $2K+ off the price (even invoice, maybe?) of the abandoned car for someone to take it. Eventually.
The OP does not need to eat the deposit. The car is not sucky by general populace definition. The people on this board are not the average buyer. The dealer is double dipping. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the dealer will "have to knock 2k+ off the price (even invoice, maybe?). That absolutely will not happen. Hell, I've seen cars on the lot for more than six months and seen sales people refuse to come down more then a few percentage points off MSRP + options. Just cause we think xenons are a must does not mean others do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I've had a package from Amazon show up on my doorstep 14 hours after clicking the submit order button. Now we're blaming the speed of modern electronics, so everyone can be "sure", even after he's literally signed a check?
Amazon will take a return on the package for a full refund. Though it's a grossly unfair comparison of Amazon package to a car.
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I agree with furby
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  #110  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Amazon will take a return on the package for a full refund. Though it's a grossly unfair comparison of Amazon package to a car.
Depends on the car, Furb.



@terryn, congrats on getting the car you really want. Morristown BMW made $500 but lost your upgraded sale and a customer (assuming they keep your deposit). Your "unsellable" original car will probably be gone from the lot in a month or two. My guess? Watch for it to appear in a broadsheet newspaper ad, featured as a blowout special deal.

When the dust settles, you might want to sit down and write a letter to BMW NA, with copies to the GM of Morristown BMW and officers of the Open Road Auto Group (site). Tell your story and express your dissatisfaction. Mention that their inflexibility in response to an honest mistake on your part ultimately sent you outside the entire Open Road group, to find better service. Dealers in this area sometimes need to be reminded their behavior is critical because customers have many options. (Unfortunately that cuts both ways...for every alienated customer there is another eager to deal.)

It's likely nothing will come of it but who knows? Maybe you'll get some BMW swag or service coupons out of someone, by way of apology.
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  #111  
Old 03-19-2013, 07:58 AM
Bret_T Bret_T is offline
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
The OP does not need to eat the deposit. The car is not sucky by general populace definition.
Did you read the part of the contract that he posted regarding the deposit? It looks pretty clear to me. The OP is out $500. It doesn't matter what could happen, what might happen, if the configuration sucks, or if everyone wants the car. The contract spells out exactly what happens. If the dealer takes the car and sells it for full MSRP, good for them. They have done nobody wrong by sticking to the contract. Now was their sticking to the contract decision short sighted? I think so because I'm betting that the OP will never go there again.
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  #112  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:21 AM
terryn terryn is offline
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I started this thread asking for opinions. Now I'll give mine.

I don't think I have any legal recourse for getting my deposit back. I called the NJ Consumer Protection Agency. They basically said the non refundable deposit terms were legal.

Ethically I don't have any right to demand the deposit back from the dealer. I made a mistake, which they contributed to, but in the end it is my responsibility and if they want to hold me to the contract they can.

I do think the dealer should refund the deposit in the interests of maintaining good customer relations. Businesses do that all the time. Even though I'll never go back there, plenty of my friends and people reading my reviews might, or might not, based on how the dealer treats me. Why they don't see that puzzles me, but they could just be playing hard ball to see if I will back down.

So in the end, if they refuse to refund the deposit, I will post factual reviews telling the story everywhere I can. I will write BMW and OpenRoad telling them my story. I have not yet decided if I will dispute the charge on my CC. I think the moral basis for doing so is a bit weak.
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  #113  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:50 AM
jeffjaz jeffjaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryn View Post
Update on this saga.

There won't be any night after surprises this time, nothing left to cover.

I agreed to what I thought was a good price. I am going in tomorrow to sign the paperwork.

In the end I ended up adding more to my build. I added BMW assist because I play all my music from my iPod, wanted the improved USB for that and the enhanced bluetooth for my iphone. I added premium package for the leather (I was already getting a moonroof) and for the auto-dimming mirrors and the lumbar support. The keyless entry and handsfree trunk opening are those little nice to haves I will probably appreciate everyday. After all the recent BS about buying a car that cannot be sold, I added heated front seats as insurance. I don't expect anything to go wrong with this order, but if it does, the car should be considered more sellable in my area. I know this made no financial sense to increase the cost of the car when I might be losing my first $500 deposit. But it made a great deal of psychological sense. I am treating myself to some extra features to recover from the trauma of the first dealer. A very expensive piece of chocolate cake! But it's working. I am so happy about this car. It is perfect now and I don't feel like I have compromised on anything (except a twinge of regret for not being able to get a MT in the Xdrive. But that is ok, I drove the Autos a lot. They shift so fast that they probably will do a better job than me shifting manually. All I lose is the participation of using the clutch. Sometimes you just have to break old habits and try something new). I will continue to try and get my first deposit back, but it won't keep me up at night if I don't. Somehow all these events put me (eventually) into a car that I like even more.


328i xdrive in Alpine White
Sport Line
Black Leather interior
Gloss black trim with that red stripe you either love or hate
Premium Package
Dynamic Handling Package
Sport Auto Trans with paddles
Moonroof
HK Stereo
Lighting Package
BMW Assist
Heated front seats
Not to make your life any more complicated, but in case you haven't considered it you might take notice that outfitting a 335 AWD with the same features (minus the Sport AT) will cost about $3200 more and can be had with a manual transmission. That differential is significantly less than the $6300 difference in base prices between the two as a result of several 328 options/components of packages being standard on the 335. You get the more potent engine, larger brakes, and yes, somewhat diminished mpg's with the 335. That is the route I am likely to take as I'm just not ready yet to give up driving a standard shift.

Just wanted to bring that to your consciousness so you won't be kicking yourself at a later date if a) it hadn't occurred to you; b) you'd be missing the MT (as I expect I would); and c) coming up with the extra coin wouldn't have been too much of a hardship.

Good luck with getting your deposit back - I agree with those who are of the mind that it should have been a no-brainer for the dealer to accommodate you.
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  #114  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:18 AM
terryn terryn is offline
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Originally Posted by jeffjaz View Post
Not to make your life any more complicated, but in case you haven't considered it you might take notice that outfitting a 335 AWD with the same features (minus the Sport AT) will cost about $3200 more and can be had with a manual transmission. That differential is significantly less than the $6300 difference in base prices between the two as a result of several 328 options/components of packages being standard on the 335. You get the more potent engine, larger brakes, and yes, somewhat diminished mpg's with the 335. That is the route I am likely to take as I'm just not ready yet to give up driving a standard shift.

Just wanted to bring that to your consciousness so you won't be kicking yourself at a later date if a) it hadn't occurred to you; b) you'd be missing the MT (as I expect I would); and c) coming up with the extra coin wouldn't have been too much of a hardship.

Good luck with getting your deposit back - I agree with those who are of the mind that it should have been a no-brainer for the dealer to accommodate you.
It occurred to me. I considered the 335i. Unless I wanted to pay a lot more, I would have had to give up some things to move up to that model to get the MT. In the end I decide that AT was acceptable, perhaps even better since I am not usually powershifting, the AT would probably do a better job than me. So I am giving up some HP (the 328 seems plenty fast for me) and the better engine sound (admittedly the 328i sounds a bit like a sewing machine, I'll just keep the hood closed : ) ) The better mpg on the 328i is also a plus.
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  #115  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I've had a package from Amazon show up on my doorstep 14 hours after clicking the submit order button. Now we're blaming the speed of modern electronics, so everyone can be "sure", even after he's literally signed a check?

I've got no love for dealers, but for the economic systems to function like we all expect, everyone has to play by the same rules. The OP did not play by the rules, and now is upset that a transaction scenario that has transpired for a thousand years is not going in his favor.
1. For a special order that takes 10 weeks, it's not an unrealistic expectation to be able to make a tweak after the first 10 hours.

2. I did not recommend that the OP make a huge fuss, rather said that he should only take a car he's 100% happy with and try to get the new dealer to comp him the $500 to gain his business.

3. A deposit can be viewed as a way to prevent someone from tying up an allocation and inventory for 10 weeks as that can harm a dealership. No harm done in less than a day.

4. The configuration being a "dog" is very subjective. It has a good chance of selling immediately, not like he's the only person in the NYC metro area looking for that feature set.

BJ
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  #116  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:01 PM
Bret_T Bret_T is offline
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terryn, I think your opinion about the situation is spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
No harm done in less than a day.
You don't know that. It's not uncommon for businesses to charge a change fee after an order is placed, regardless of how much time has passed. Perhaps the dealership has to pay a non-refundable deposit to reserve the place in the production line. Otherwise, dealerships could place orders and cancel them at will.
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  #117  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:05 PM
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SamS SamS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
1. For a special order that takes 10 weeks, it's not an unrealistic expectation to be able to make a tweak after the first 10 hours.

2. I did not recommend that the OP make a huge fuss, rather said that he should only take a car he's 100% happy with and try to get the new dealer to comp him the $500 to gain his business.

3. A deposit can be viewed as a way to prevent someone from tying up an allocation and inventory for 10 weeks as that can harm a dealership. No harm done in less than a day.

4. The configuration being a "dog" is very subjective. It has a good chance of selling immediately, not like he's the only person in the NYC metro area looking for that feature set.

BJ
Sure, it could sell in a month, or the dealer may have to discount it due to the premium options that many off-the-lot buyers at the lower price points don't consider to be necessary, e.g. DHP.

$500 was the agreed upon "risk" that either the dealer or buyer has to assume when ordering a car that is non-typical to what the dealer normally orders. If it was a crazy blue/orange BMW Indivdial color combo, then the deposit required might be $10k.

Deposits like this are done for special car orders every day, in every city in America. These are the standard transactional rules, and the OP wants more flexibility. When you don't have realistic expectations of this lack of flexibility (e.g. $500 lost), then the whole system becomes unstable, for both buyers and dealers.
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  #118  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by terryn View Post
Update on this saga.

Vern referred me to his CA at JMK BMW in Springfield. I called him last night and had the most pleasant conversation I had ever had with a car salesman. Mark really new his cars and their features - Thanks Vern. Finally someone I could ask questions to about blue tooth, voice activation, etc. We talked about BMW's our past cars, what we liked about them. It was good. This time I talked about every single feature and whether it was useful to me. There won't be any night after surprises this time, nothing left to cover.

I agreed to what I thought was a good price. I am going in tomorrow to sign the paperwork.

In the end I ended up adding more to my build. I added BMW assist because I play all my music from my iPod, wanted the improved USB for that and the enhanced bluetooth for my iphone. I added premium package for the leather (I was already getting a moonroof) and for the auto-dimming mirrors and the lumbar support. The keyless entry and handsfree trunk opening are those little nice to haves I will probably appreciate everyday. After all the recent BS about buying a car that cannot be sold, I added heated front seats as insurance. I don't expect anything to go wrong with this order, but if it does, the car should be considered more sellable in my area. I know this made no financial sense to increase the cost of the car when I might be losing my first $500 deposit. But it made a great deal of psychological sense. I am treating myself to some extra features to recover from the trauma of the first dealer. A very expensive piece of chocolate cake! But it's working. I am so happy about this car. It is perfect now and I don't feel like I have compromised on anything (except a twinge of regret for not being able to get a MT in the Xdrive. But that is ok, I drove the Autos a lot. They shift so fast that they probably will do a better job than me shifting manually. All I lose is the participation of using the clutch. Sometimes you just have to break old habits and try something new). I will continue to try and get my first deposit back, but it won't keep me up at night if I don't. Somehow all these events put me (eventually) into a car that I like even more.


328i xdrive in Alpine White
Sport Line
Black Leather interior
Gloss black trim with that red stripe you either love or hate
Premium Package
Dynamic Handling Package
Sport Auto Trans with paddles
Moonroof
HK Stereo
Lighting Package
BMW Assist
Heated front seats

To the poster that compared Xenons and Halogens only as a matter of bulb cost, I disagree. That is not what it is about at all for me. For me it is aging eyesight, that is having noticeably more difficult driving at night and dealing with the contrast of oncoming headlights. I think the Xenons will help a great deal. It's about safety, not about cost, or bulb life.
Kinda reminds me the scene from one of my all time favorite movies "Pretty Woman" . The rude saleswoman who wouldn't give Julia Roberts the time of day.
She & her store lost Lots of sales & commissions ! I hope the same happens to that dealer. They lost a sale, referrals , & future business & service & warranty work. Also, glad you survived the 3 years of the pain & suffering & I m sure financial $$$ hardship of a messy divorce I have 3 friends currently going through divorces, & one whose been divorced for years still dealing with reduction of child support issues Enjoy your new BMW to the fullest . Join BMW CCA. Do the Performance Center Delivery if it works in your schedule. Bottom line. Enjoy your life ! It's not a rehearsal & there is no Second Act.
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  #119  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:40 AM
boltjaM3s's Avatar
boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Sure, it could sell in a month, or the dealer may have to discount it due to the premium options that many off-the-lot buyers at the lower price points don't consider to be necessary, e.g. DHP.

$500 was the agreed upon "risk" that either the dealer or buyer has to assume when ordering a car that is non-typical to what the dealer normally orders. If it was a crazy blue/orange BMW Indivdial color combo, then the deposit required might be $10k.

Deposits like this are done for special car orders every day, in every city in America. These are the standard transactional rules, and the OP wants more flexibility. When you don't have realistic expectations of this lack of flexibility (e.g. $500 lost), then the whole system becomes unstable, for both buyers and dealers.
Your wife is getting the kitchen redone. Cabinets, fixtures, countertops, appliances, the works. Going to cost you $50,000. Going to take 8 weeks.

10 hours after placing the order and signing the paperwork, she wakes up, realizes that she ordered brass knobs instead of stainless steel, calls the contractor who tells her "sorry, I ordered everything, you signed the paperwork, not my problem babe."

Your wife comes to you in tears. You tell her, "Well, he's right, sucks for you, brass doesn't match anything, looks ridiculous, and will kill us on resale, but an agreement is an agreement, oh well."

Yeah, right.

BJ
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  #120  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:04 AM
Bret_T Bret_T is offline
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In that example, you'll do what's called a "change order", which will likely cost you the difference. Or you'll tell the contractor that the deals off, which will cost you your deposit. Sure it would be nice if the contractor changed it for free, but to expect/demand him to do so given that he already ordered materials and will incur a restocking fee at a minimum wouldn't be right. Perhaps I'm in the minority these days, but I just don't expect others to pay for my mistakes. I'll even go out of the way to make sure that they don't.
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  #121  
Old 03-20-2013, 09:14 AM
dgkfl dgkfl is offline
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I think the OP's conclusion is correct. The contract calls the deposit "liquidated damages," and that's exactly what it is: the amount that the two parties to the contract agree will be the penalty if the buyer cancels the contract. Assuming that not to be contrary to NJ law, what's wrong with that? The dealer did not lie, cheat, steal or misrepresent in this instance as far as I can see, and I don't think the $500 is an unfair windfall for the dealer considering they may have some trouble selling the ordered car (compared to a car with more "normal" options.) I, for one, don't think it would be ethical for the OP to try to block the charge on his credit card, for example; he made an agreement with his eyes open.

Now, we can debate all day whether this is a smart move on the dealer's part. I vote it to be a dumb move. If the dealer is in fact charging 4% off sticker, they're probably making somewhere between $3,000-$4,000 on the car, so why lose the sale for $500? I could understand it much better if they had agreed to sell at invoice less incentives plus $500. Why not take the opportunity to earn a customer for life? If I were in charge, I would probably do something like tell the OP, "hey, we want you to be happy. We'll apply your $500 deposit to the new order, but listen, I'm sure you understand, we're gonna need a total $1,500 total deposit on the new order, OK?" Something like that.

So now the dealer has lost a customer for potentially more than one car, plus created a bad taste which has been shared with the internet. The dealer sounds penny wise and pound foolish, but it happens all the time. It's not an ethical issue, it's a business philosophy issue.
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  #122  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:20 AM
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SamS SamS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Your wife is getting the kitchen redone. Cabinets, fixtures, countertops, appliances, the works. Going to cost you $50,000. Going to take 8 weeks.

10 hours after placing the order and signing the paperwork, she wakes up, realizes that she ordered brass knobs instead of stainless steel, calls the contractor who tells her "sorry, I ordered everything, you signed the paperwork, not my problem babe."

Your wife comes to you in tears. You tell her, "Well, he's right, sucks for you, brass doesn't match anything, looks ridiculous, and will kill us on resale, but an agreement is an agreement, oh well."

Yeah, right.

BJ
Bad example. Brass knobs can be swapped, xenons cannot.
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  #123  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:53 AM
terryn terryn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgkfl View Post
I think the OP's conclusion is correct. The contract calls the deposit "liquidated damages," and that's exactly what it is: the amount that the two parties to the contract agree will be the penalty if the buyer cancels the contract. Assuming that not to be contrary to NJ law, what's wrong with that? The dealer did not lie, cheat, steal or misrepresent in this instance as far as I can see, and I don't think the $500 is an unfair windfall for the dealer considering they may have some trouble selling the ordered car (compared to a car with more "normal" options.) I, for one, don't think it would be ethical for the OP to try to block the charge on his credit card, for example; he made an agreement with his eyes open.

Now, we can debate all day whether this is a smart move on the dealer's part. I vote it to be a dumb move. If the dealer is in fact charging 4% off sticker, they're probably making somewhere between $3,000-$4,000 on the car, so why lose the sale for $500? I could understand it much better if they had agreed to sell at invoice less incentives plus $500. Why not take the opportunity to earn a customer for life? If I were in charge, I would probably do something like tell the OP, "hey, we want you to be happy. We'll apply your $500 deposit to the new order, but listen, I'm sure you understand, we're gonna need a total $1,500 total deposit on the new order, OK?" Something like that.

So now the dealer has lost a customer for potentially more than one car, plus created a bad taste which has been shared with the internet. The dealer sounds penny wise and pound foolish, but it happens all the time. It's not an ethical issue, it's a business philosophy issue.
Maybe I would have gone for that, but too late. I just placed a new order at a different dealer on a car with options that I am very pleased with, for $465 over invoice. I would have saved a lot of money with this deal over the first, even if I had to eat the deposit, except for the fact that I added a bunch more stuff to the second order because I was determined to make this a very special perfect car for me. I think I made the right choice, and I am certainly happier with my choice of dealer.
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  #124  
Old 03-20-2013, 11:14 AM
saluki saluki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryn View Post
Actually the whole car is a reward to myself for surviving a messy and painful 3 year divorce proceeding.

The future is looking brighter now!
I feel for you man, I'm two years in right now. Hoping to be done soon
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  #125  
Old 03-20-2013, 01:01 PM
vern vern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
1. For a special order that takes 10 weeks, it's not an unrealistic expectation to be able to make a tweak after the first 10 hours.


BJ
IMO thats a bunch of BS. 10 hours and you can't change the order, give us a break. I'm sure Morristown Bmw has many satisfied customers but I'm also sure that they have MANY MANY dissatisfied customers and now probably more so. Do a SEARCH and you will know what I'm talking about no BS
I'm one of the dissatisfied customers with there sister dealer.
cheers
vern
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