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6 Series
The BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 03-16-2013, 02:04 AM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Unhappy bmw 645ci,pulsing, jerking,uneven throttle body response at low speed/RPM in 1st gear

Hello friends!
I am pretty new to this forum!
first off all, would like to say that you guys are awesome! I've learned a looot of things from you all! Thank you !
to my problem! I have a bmw 645ci 2004, 110K on it. It is my first BMW. Never had so much problem with a car. my indy and I are tired of seeing eachother lol Anyway, I got 2 problems :

First problem: the car had rough idle, (not when cold) actually mostly when car was warmed up. It happened at idle in D, N and P.

2. problem is: it feels like there is a gap/play in drive shaft somewhere ! you feel it specially when you going downhill at very slow speed/ RPM in 1st gear, the car is rolling forward and you lightly step on gas. then you feel like kick and a clunk/clicking noise under the car!
The indy said these two problems might be related. He said the rough idle might cause poor throttle body at low speed and the kick! The only code we got at that time was the intake manifold sensor. Replaced it along with intake manifold gasket ! got car smoked and fixed all the vaccum leaks. car kept having the problem still. The indy started replacing stuff :

New fuel filter
new fuel pump
mass air flow sensor
fuel injector service( twice)
reprogramming
he checked the alternator and found its bad. so got new altenator.
he also raised the RMP by 50. It was at 500 before, now its at 550.
BTW, the flex disc/ juibo was replaced 10k ago along with engine and transmission mount before I got this problem. I just replaced those as maintenance. I did not have any problem before that!at that time i did not have this problem . Also, transmission was replaced under warranty like 28k aqo!
Now, the RPM problem is solved. No rough idel or jumping RPM! But, I still have the other problem at low speed. indy lifted the car, moved the drive shaft with his hand, checked the juibo, drive shaft and tranmission mounts and said they are ok.. indy said, its probably because of the throttle response at low RPM and not the drive shaft of juibo! we checked the codes today again, and the car still gets the intake manifold sensor code he has no clue why we still get the code! He checked the battery it was at 50% charged and said it needs to be replaced! I have some harsh shifting from 1-2 gear when cold in the morning for first 2-3 mins drive. indy said it might be due to the battery!
My question is:
1. why do we still get the intake manifold sensor error! Can this cause the the at low speed? can the low battery cause this? I dont have any starting issuse!
2. Could the indy have done something wrong and damage something while replacing guibo, transmission and mounts? Is it possible to damage the transmission output drive whike replacing the guibo?
3. coils have been never replaced before. original from 2004! Indy said it might make your car runs smoother at low RPM and throttle reponse might get better! Should I replace those too?
4. Can the problem be because of the trottle response or driveshaft?
BTW, at that time when replacing the juibo, he also clean the trottle body valve and reprogrammed the car. Unfortunately, the programming crushed and the computer could not find any module after that! he called an other guy, he came with some other equipments ancd reprogram the car again!
5. "maybe" the trottle body valve was damaged while cleaning? or maybe the main computer of the car?

Sorry, if I talked too much
I really realllyyyy appreciate your help!
Thank you in advance!
Ps. Sorry for my bad English. I just moved from europe!
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2013, 03:47 AM
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645/333 645/333 is offline
Michael
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Hi! to help in some way hear are some suggestions on one of the items
1) the clunking noise from the transmission when you slow and then press the accelerator. I had this on my car and it took a software update from BMW to fix as it is a very common problem on the early 645's. The update did work it never happened again, but with that update came lots of other benefits so it was worth the money to get it done. I suggest you don't leave it as it puts a hell of a strain on the total transmission. Many people had it done under warranty in the early years. Sometimes doing a transmission reset would improve the situation but it is not a permanent fix.
As for the coils yes it is worth replacing all of them at your cars mileage!!!!
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2013, 11:27 AM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions ! Indy has reprogrammed the car already! He said the car has the latest software! Do you mean I should go to the dealer and let them reprogram the car again!!? Does it make a difference?! Do u think the DME might be damaged by last reprogramming that crushed and now it doesn't pick up the software right?! Btw, what do you think about why we consistently get the intake manifold sensor error although the sensors is replaced along with intanke manifold gasket and vacuum leaks!
Thanks a lot!
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:14 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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If your Indy installed the latest revisions, you don't need to go to the dealer. Have your Indy run test on the DME, following the test plan for your code. If he has the BMW software, he can find the problem. It looks like your pocket must be hurting at this point, so make your mechanic find the problem. I would have him check the tranny level while he has it on the rack.

Good Luck!
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:24 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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O ok thanks. I am gonna talk to him about it on monday and let you know. btw, what do you think about a bad camshaft sensor?
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  #6  
Old 03-16-2013, 06:48 PM
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Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline
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Batteries cause lots of problems and if it's at 50 % have it changed out and register it. I also had a bad Cam sensor that did the same thing I replaced it and all was good. But it should give you a code for that if it is bad.
As for the intake manifold sensor still giving you an error then check for correct installation. Try a transmission reset to see if that fixes your weird shifting.
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  #7  
Old 03-16-2013, 07:23 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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I missed the 50% charge on the battery. Change it out, & see what happens. That will be cheap compared to what you have already spent!

Good Luck!
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  #8  
Old 03-16-2013, 08:36 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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thanks guys !
We replaced the intake manifold sensor with an other new sensor again because we thought we got a bad sensor. BUT sill we got the same error after how can you do wrong on installation? What should I look for?
Yes, the battery is always around 50% , no matter how much I have driven the car! I am gonna replace the battery and register on monday( its 3 year old already), see how the car acts after ! BTW, is it possible to have a bad camshaft sensor without throwing any code? there are 2 camshaft sensor in N62?
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  #9  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:40 AM
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amennrahh amennrahh is offline
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Rough transmission shifts see this link: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65463

Vehicle running rough see this link as a possible solution: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=673942
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2013, 07:13 AM
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I stand to be corrected here!!! But my understanding is that all is not clear when it comes to asking for software updates.
I have found this when talking to my own dealer. There are updates for the ECU, then updates for the Idrive, then updates for the tranny. They are not all the same or done at the same time when you ask for a software update.
I think one has to be very specific in your request or gain clarification as to what the software update actually does.
I went through this when I asked for a complete vehicle update.
At first BMW refused to do it saying that on early models 04'05'06 it caused more problems than it cured.
One of the reason's being is that your car can be working normally, then when they do an update, a component/module fails as the 'new update' creates failures in what was a previously working module.
This then necessitates the replacement of a module at whatever cost comes, as it can prove very expensive. which is also why they resist updating even when a car is in warranty.
Another point is that once the software is updated you cannot go back to a pre/early-revision. This is very pertinent if you have had a component/module failure.
When I eventually had my complete vehicle update to the latest revision's for all of the car (cost me 210) I agreed to take the risk of a failure, luckily at the time the car did not fail so i did not have any extra expense.
The tranny problems stopped and the car improved in so many other areas' so for me it was well worth the risk!!!!!!
At the time I went into the Idrive and checked what software revisions were pre and post update, plus I asked for a printout !!!!
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  #11  
Old 03-17-2013, 02:24 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Interesting! The first guy used autologic to reprogram the car. He was actually trying to program the gateway module to get the Bluetooth work! After it crashed while programming, the computer could not find/communicate with any module! so he called an other guy who got BMW factory pragramming tools! ( who knows he really did ) anyway, he just registered the modules to the car again and reprogrammed only the transmission, DME and gateway modul again! Not the entire car! The car runs ok after but to be honest it wasn't like before anymore! I think I got the low speed problem from that day ! I took the car to the dealer to get the entire car reprogrammed again! I thought the software might have some bugs!!! But stealer checked the software and said its the latest and doesn't need reprogramming! Do u think reprogramming the "entire" car regardless would help?! How the modules other than DME and transmission module can affect the performance of engine/ transmission ?! Is there any other module other than DME abd transmission that is important for performance?? Thanks
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2013, 04:52 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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If your battery is 50% dead, this can cause all kinds of problems. I would not do anything until the battery has been changed. You can get & install the battery, then have your mechanic register it to the car. If the ECU sees low voltage, it will start a load shed on the cars electrical system. This will shut down voltage to specific components, causing the engine to perform poorly!
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2013, 05:13 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Thanks HerbP! I am gonna replace the battery first tomorrow and go from there. Hope the battery solve the problem! Ill keep it poste !!!
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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Hi 645/333... Can you tell us what the changes you got with the latest iDrive Software? And what exactly is the version number, and where would I find that on my car?

I've been trying to get a solid answer before insisting on this as my dealer has given me the "if the update bricks your iDrive, you pay" ultimatum.

Specific questions: Does the haptic response still stop at the end of the screen? or at the end of the playlist? (Hate that it makes scrolling through songs such a pain. Also, can you edit out the weather radio and AM from the scroll list? Etc.

What changes did you get? Enquiring minds need to know so we can figure out if it is worth the cost and the risk.

Thx.
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:35 PM
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Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarash2000 View Post
Interesting! The first guy used autologic to reprogram the car. He was actually trying to program the gateway module to get the Bluetooth work! After it crashed while programming, the computer could not find/communicate with any module! so he called an other guy who got BMW factory pragramming tools! ( who knows he really did ) anyway, he just registered the modules to the car again and reprogrammed only the transmission, DME and gateway modul again! Not the entire car! The car runs ok after but to be honest it wasn't like before anymore! I think I got the low speed problem from that day ! I took the car to the dealer to get the entire car reprogrammed again! I thought the software might have some bugs!!! But stealer checked the software and said its the latest and doesn't need reprogramming! Do u think reprogramming the "entire" car regardless would help?! How the modules other than DME and transmission module can affect the performance of engine/ transmission ?! Is there any other module other than DME abd transmission that is important for performance?? Thanks
I think you found your own problem!!! This reprogram might have screwed thing up!!
I hope that isn't the case and your battery is just flat!!!

Good Luck !!!
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:23 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Hmmm ya it might be! if its the case then what would be the damage? what should I do? reprogramm the entire car again? or new module?
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:56 AM
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Nitrogen Nitrogen is offline
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From what I know my service advisor won't let me reprogram my car because he said it will cause more damage than good. He said most of modules will fail and need to be replaced so this might be your problem.
Just a guess!!!
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:58 AM
tampamark tampamark is online now
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My car has been updated a couple of times with no issues? The first time while under factory warranty when I complained of slow Idrive boots and some quirky screen navigation issues.

The second time was when they replaced my dash cluster under CPO.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:26 AM
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GetMeABeer GetMeABeer is offline
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Have had a couple of rough start ups myself. They settle down quickly though, so no worries yet for me.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarv View Post
Hi 645/333... Can you tell us what the changes you got with the latest iDrive Software? And what exactly is the version number, and where would I find that on my car?

I've been trying to get a solid answer before insisting on this as my dealer has given me the "if the update bricks your iDrive, you pay" ultimatum.

Specific questions: Does the haptic response still stop at the end of the screen? or at the end of the playlist? (Hate that it makes scrolling through songs such a pain. Also, can you edit out the weather radio and AM from the scroll list? Etc.

What changes did you get? Enquiring minds need to know so we can figure out if it is worth the cost and the risk.

Thx.

Sadly I cannot help with many of the points you ask. My car was a 2005 645ci. I had the software update done in 2010 (by BMW), well outside of the warranty. I had been having many of the technical issues described in various threads, especially the transmission slamming at low speed, plus other smaller glitches. At that time there were many functional updates to the Idrive that had occurred on later models that could be installed onto mine with the pre-requisite updates. Also there had been updates to the ECU etc, when the car was updated it ran a lot smoother and the consumption improved marginally. There was an update which improved gear changes, made them smoother. Anyway as I said I had my car's total software system updated as of 2010. It actually took 2 days as the car's are updated over the internet.
There is a thread on here that tells you how to get into the engineering screen which has all of the software versions. plus if you go to BMW they can print one out very easily, but you have to hook up the car.
When I had my car done I did not trust my dealer, predominately because the service advisers (front desk) haven't got a clue really, and I did not trust them to do as I asked. When a company goes at great lengths to dissuade you from doing something then they agree, then one has suspicions, hence I asked for printouts with the relevant version history.
I wince when I see people supposedly updating the software when they don't really know what they are doing and why, they just follow a version trail!!!!!
How many people have done say an update from Microsoft vista to say Microsoft 7 and found that following the update many things don't work, or have to re-install drivers etc. or have to do the update 2-4 times till it finally works, well think on what is different on a car ?????? not a lot !!!!
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Last edited by 645/333; 03-18-2013 at 07:47 AM.
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  #21  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:43 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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My car is also a 2005 645ci and it all works great now that i updated the transmission. But the iDrive has some quirks I hate that if were eliminated in the new version, I might go to the trouble. My biggest peeve... when scrolling, does the knob 'bounce back' at the bottom of the visible list of songs or when it gets to the end of the playlist?
If that is unchanged, then I won't bother.

As for versions, I do have their printout, but I wanted to confirm it on screen if possible. I'll figure that out.

But did the haptic feedback setup change per the above? Did it? Please confirm. argh..

Thanks...

ps. Your analogy to Microsoft is spot on. Too close in fact. I believe the iDrive of our era is based on Windows CE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 645/333 View Post
Sadly I cannot help with many of the points you ask. My car was a 2005 645ci. I had the software update done in 2010 (by BMW), well outside of the warranty. I had been having many of the technical issues described in various threads, especially the transmission slamming at low speed, plus other smaller glitches. At that time there were many functional updates to the Idrive that had occurred on later models that could be installed onto mine with the pre-requisite updates. Also there had been updates to the ECU etc, when the car was updated it ran a lot smoother and the consumption improved marginally. There was an update which improved gear changes, made them smoother. Anyway as I said I had my car's total software system updated as of 2010. It actually took 2 days as the car's are updated over the internet.
There is a thread on here that tells you how to get into the engineering screen which has all of the software versions. plus if you go to BMW they can print one out very easily, but you have to hook up the car.
When I had my car done I did not trust my dealer, predominately because the service advisers (front desk) haven't got a clue really, and I did not trust them to do as I asked. When a company goes at great lengths to dissuade you from doing something then they agree, then one has suspicions, hence I asked for printouts with the relevant version history.
I wince when I see people supposedly updating the software when they don't really know what they are doing and why, they just follow a version trail!!!!!
How many people have done say an update from Microsoft vista to say Microsoft 7 and found that following the update many things don't work, or have to re-install drivers etc. or have to do the update 2-4 times till it finally works, well think on what is different on a car ?????? not a lot !!!!

Last edited by Skarv; 03-18-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-19-2013, 10:46 AM
shan904 shan904 is offline
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Originally Posted by 645/333 View Post
I had been having many of the technical issues described in various threads, especially the transmission slamming at low speed,
When I get between 35-40 mph my car feels like its shifting up and down between gears like it cant decide which gear to go in. It doesn't happen all the time, it will happen for like 3 days straight and then stop for a week and then start again. It will stop the back and forth shifting when I get out of this 35-40 mph range and but as soon as i get back into that range it starts shifting up and down again. When I asked my SA he said it's normal under certain driving conditions for this to happen because "the car is a sports car and and it's ready to go, but it wants you to make up your mind to go fast or slow" Sounds crazy to me that under "certain driving conditions" I can't go between 35-40 mph...Is this the transmission slamming you were experiencing? It tends to shift pretty hard when this happens.
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  #23  
Old 03-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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645/333 645/333 is offline
Michael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shan904 View Post
When I get between 35-40 mph my car feels like its shifting up and down between gears like it cant decide which gear to go in. It doesn't happen all the time, it will happen for like 3 days straight and then stop for a week and then start again. It will stop the back and forth shifting when I get out of this 35-40 mph range and but as soon as i get back into that range it starts shifting up and down again. When I asked my SA he said it's normal under certain driving conditions for this to happen because "the car is a sports car and and it's ready to go, but it wants you to make up your mind to go fast or slow" Sounds crazy to me that under "certain driving conditions" I can't go between 35-40 mph...Is this the transmission slamming you were experiencing? It tends to shift pretty hard when this happens.
Do a transmission reset and many minor glitches disappear, plus it learns your driving style. you can do it many times, but remember that you have to drive the car for a period of time before it really understands how you drive..... To do it ! put your foot to the floor on the accelerator then switch the ignition to point 2, the point before the engine turns over, hold your foot on the accelerator for 45 secs + then switch off, then switch back on and then go for a run etc. i used to do a rest before along journey as lots of shorts ones don't do a get deal!!!!
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:17 PM
shan904 shan904 is offline
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I tried the reset a couple of times before when it would start jumping, no difference
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  #25  
Old 03-19-2013, 09:37 PM
aarash2000 aarash2000 is offline
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Shan 904,
I had the same problem before! exactly between 35-40 mph! unfortunately, its the transmission, the valve body/mechatronics. I got new transmission under warranty! its not going to be cheap if you out of warranty A friend of mine fixed his 745I under 1500 $.
take a look at this: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=654634
It might work for you too!
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